16 July 2024 Finishing Up my OB Pool

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mas985 said:
Why are you doing that? You are adding pressure to the suction side of the pump which is exactly the opposite of what you are trying to accomplish. The point of priming is to lower the pressure in the pump basket.

Just fill up the pump basket, close the lid and start the pump. But let it run for longer than 4 minutes until the pump shuts off itself.
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That makes sense, I'll give it a whirl. My thinking was to try to let the pump run with no water added for about 5 min. Then instead of stopping to changing valve positions opening and filling then restarting. Just to add water for 1 minute then close it off and keep the pump running the whole time. Just a little easier on the back. Or maybe I can try 10 min cycles. That seems to be what's programmed in on the prime cycle. If this doesn't work I'll try the open lid routine. Sometimes there just isn't an easy way...
 
setsailsoon said:
That makes sense, I'll give it a whirl. My thinking was to try to let the pump run with no water added for about 5 min.
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Why? That will do nothing. Without any water in the pump basket, the seal will burn up. Also, there has to be water in the pump basket to create suction and suction is need to lift the water into the pump basket.

setsailsoon said:
Then instead of stopping to changing valve positions opening and filling then restarting. Just to add water for 1 minute then close it off and keep the pump running the whole time. Just a little easier on the back. Or maybe I can try 10 min cycles. That seems to be what's programmed in on the prime cycle. If this doesn't work I'll try the open lid routine. Sometimes there just isn't an easy way...
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None of this makes any sense to me. You are make things 10x more complicated then they need to be.

A pump like that should have no problem priming 5' the first time as long as there are no suction leaks.
 
JoyfulNoise said:
You could try opening the air relief valve on the top of the filter. That way any air drawn in will be blown out the air relief rather than run through the plumbing. It will shoot water too but at this point it doesn’t matter.
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No filter on the main pump. You may recall we have a completely independent filter pump. It's a 1.5 hp Pentair vs also. Since it takes suction on the main pool drain it's surface is over 3' higher than the overflow basin it was a piece of cake to prime.

Chris
 
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08 June 2024 OK well here's the good news: SHE'S PRIMED AND BLASTING OFF!

Not sure why this happened but I' giving credit to @JamesW @mas985 and @ajw22 . Plus maybe myself a little. After an hour of my "easier on the back" fiasco I shut it down and opened the strainer. To my surprise the bowel lid popped off and overflowed immediately with pretty hot water. Not scalding, maybe 100 deg f. So I started thinking there was an obstruction. Maybe in the heater. So I broke loose the inlet (checked and it was definitely piped to the inlet not the outlet). Then I figured I should try something else so I went back to the traditional cycles that James and Mark have been suggesting all along. At least filling was easier with my cheater valve. I could tell they were getting frustrated while I persisted with the "easy method" but still very polite. Everybody knows that all engineers go to heaven, right? First cycle with the pipe separated at the heater inlet was about the same as all the previous. Second cycle was definitely better with a steady strong trickle. Third cycle was music to my ears. I could see the flow dramatically better and increasing fast. All of a sudden it was the big victory bubbles gushed and swirled themselves completely out of the bowel and the check valve and it sprayed all over the heater where the pipe was separated. Shut her off quickly, connected the pipe and we were off! Next I'll try to get flows balanced and get Jame's photo of my Niagra in Palm City.

Huge accomplishment today and thank you all so much!

Chris

PS so at the end of the day I don't know if it was just doing the traditional prime sequence, reducing back pressure of the heater, or just I finally got the pipe filled up. But if I ever have to prime it again I'll use the traditional prime and if it doesn't work quickly I'll break loose the flange at the heater.
 
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I was just about to ask that same question.

A infinity edge pump should have nothing else in the line. The heater should be in the filter loop.
 

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mas985 said:
I was just about to ask that same question.

A infinity edge pump should have nothing else in the line. The heater should be in the filter loop.
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Yeah - i don’t think unfiltered water should be going thru a heater. The dedicated infinity edge pump definitely does need minimal restriction.
 
It isn't just that, infinity edges generally require very high flow rates and so plumbing should be very low head loss or pump efficiency will suffer greatly. Doesn't sound like the heater was bypassed.
 
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JoyfulNoise said:
A question for the hydraulics nerds - is there a minimum speed (suction head) that the pump will have to run at to keep the water in suction line moving and avoid losing head?
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The WhisperFloXF VS Commercial Pump has four programmable settings that can be set to any speed ranging from 300 to 3450 RPMs.

At about 430 RPM the pump will probably stop moving water.

As long as you do not drop below 1,000 RPM, the pump should not stall out.

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www.pentair.com

WhisperFloXF® VS 5HP Variable Speed Pump

The WhisperFloXF VS 5HP Commercial Pump is the first five-horsepower variable-speed pool pump that runs on single-phase or three-phase power.
www.pentair.com www.pentair.com
 

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The blue line is the pool water level.

The red line in the trough maximum limit.

The black line is the trough water level when the Infinity Edge is on.

The blue line to the black line is the feet of head difference when the pump is on.

It looks like it is about 4 feet.

The pump will stall at 5 feet at about 425 RPM.

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You can get a flow sensor, but the price is high.

Operating the Pump in Flow Mode:

When connected to an inline 4-20mA flowmeter, this pump is capable of maintaining a constant flow based on the needs of your pool system.

Connecting a flowmeter and operating the pump in flow mode will require the purchase of:

• Digital Input Wiring Kit (P/N 353129Z - Almond) or RS-485 Automation Wiring Kit (P/N 356324Z -Black).

Flow mode operation is not possible if controlling the pump via RS-485.

• A 4-20mA Flowmeter (Pentair recommends P/N 97014-4203KIT)

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mas985 said:
I was just about to ask that same question.

A infinity edge pump should have nothing else in the line. The heater should be in the filter loop.
Click to expand...

I've had this question a couple of times and just didn't worry too much about it. But I do get the point and I could easily do that. That would mean it will have to do spa duty as well. With 10 jets in the spa should need 100 gpm. I might be a little light on flow rate but I could close a few when we're not using them. Just looking at the filter gauge at 3000 rpm I think it was 10 psi, so say 22 ft head plus say 15 ft of elevation plus dynamic piping loss. That would give me 37 ft total. Which should also me to get barely 100 gpm at full speed based on the pump curve below If @Jimrahbe saw this post he'd be saying "I told you you'd be happier with the bigger pump"

Chris

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