To Break, or Not To Break?

[Arizonarob]

So, I currently have my eyeballs all pointed up and in one direction to create a swirl effect pushing everything towards the skimmer. I’ve read different posts here and there on this subject but haven’t found a solid piece of advice on this.
Currently in this configuration it breaks the surface of the water quite a bit, especially on my tanning ledge area. I’m wondering what the long term affect of this would be on my chemical consumption, and keeping my levels in place? Will breaking the surface tension speed up FC loss? Will it lower TA over time? Does it contribute to PH rise?
What’s everyone’s thoughts on this??

 

[Texas Splash]

Breaking the surface results in aeration which can increase pH. How much/quickly the aeration increases your pH and how much acid you use later to control it all depends on the amount of aeration. I would monitor your pH rise for a while. If it's steady, no worries. If it does climb rather quickly, first look at your TA to see if it's too high which would also allow the pH to rise. If the TA is not elevated, your plaster is fully cured, and the only aeration you have is from the return jets and your pH is still climbing rather quickly, then you might consider turning them down a little.

 

[Dirk]

Or... Unless you're already sure you need those particular eyeball adjustments to achieve the skimming you need... Throw some ping pong balls in your pool. Watch 'em for a while. Then readjust your eyeballs lower and see if you can't get the same skimmer solution without disturbing the surface. My pool rotates just fine and I can just barely see the action of my returns on the surface.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Rob,

What speed are you running your pump? My pool returns barely make a ripple at 1200 rpm, but if I crank up the speed to 1800 or 2000 I get much bigger surface ripples..

Jim R.

 

[Arizonarob]

Tex, currently my TA is at 80, and I’m adding MA daily to to keep the PH down, not much, about a cup of 14% MA.

Dirk, I like that, I’ll fiddle around with that and see what I can come up with.

Jim, currently I have to modes I run. One is 4 hours at 2700rpm for cleaning, and the other is at 6 hours at 1700rpm for filtering.

 

[Dirk]

Does the cleaning mode shut down the returns and so the rotation too? So that skimming only occurs during your 1700RPM mode? Do you have automation or a way to program another RPM mode? Reason I ask: I think it was JoyfulNoise (another TFP expert here) who suggested I could set my filtering RPM medium-ish (you could maybe drop yours down to 1500, or less?), for most of the filter cycle (general water clarifying, etc), but then bump up the RPMs pretty high for shorter periods, maybe a few times a day, to get the water really spinning for really good skimming and extra circulation. That, plus adjusting the eyeballs, might get you the skimming you're after, while not affecting pH, and a little energy usage efficiency to boot (the lower general-filtering RPMs might offset the higher skimmer-mode RPMs). I'm trying that out on my pool. No definitive results yet, as I've been concentrating on SWG issues just now! You might have heard...

 

[Arizonarob]

“You might have heard...”
Even people that Don’t have pools have herd your swg saga!

Everything is on at both speeds. Pool vac, skimmer, returns, etc.
I based my settings off a chart I found on a different site when I first got my pump. I can pretty much set a bunch of different run/rpm times on my pump.
I just ran a full set of tests ( I usually just test FC & PH) and for some reason my TA jumped to 90. So I’ll be running the waterfall to aerate it back down to 80.
I seem to get better skimmer action with the eyeballs pointed up, as the shape of my pool and location of the returns, creates a couple of “dead zones” where stuff tends to hang out at the bar so to speak. But at the same time, I’m adding acid everyday to keep the PH down.

So im trying to find the “sweet spot” where everything stays stable without having to add acid every day. Chlorine, yeah I know my pool eats about 2 cups of 10% every day, no biggie.

Chart I used to set pump speeds/run times.

 

[Dirk]

I just ran a full set of tests ( I usually just test FC & PH) and for some reason my TA jumped to 90. So I’ll be running the waterfall to aerate it back down to 80.

Just in case this wasn't your shorthand... Aeration doesn't bring TA down. The MA does that, and pH along with it. The aeration is used to drive the pH back up where it belongs. If you just aerate, you'll only drive pH up and the TA won't move.

 

[Dirk]

I isolated cleaning mode from skimmer mode because I didn't like the performance of either, and I couldn't get the RPMs right for my vac while the skimmer was involved. So now the vac gets 100% suction when in vac mode, and the skimmer gets 100% suction the rest of the time. Both vac and skimmer worked much better after that, and I was able to run both at lower RPMs, bonus!

That could be done manually, but that doesn't sound fun. My automation handles that for me, with an actuator on the three-way that balances suction port and skimmer.

Just pointing out that maybe your skimming issue is related to the fact that your sharing it's performance with the cleaner's.

 

[Dirk]

By the way, a suction port active all the time poses a bit of a safety risk, and technically is not code compliant. I'm having this same discussion in at least one or two other threads...

 

[Pool_Medic]

I always have my eyeballs pointed slightly downward at an angle. For my two it’s gives me two circles that are angled. This gets my chlorine to almost every spot in the pool.

 

[Arizonarob]

Just in case this wasn't your shorthand... Aeration doesn't bring TA down. The MA does that, and pH along with it. The aeration is used to drive the pH back up where it belongs. If you just aerate, you'll only drive pH up and the TA won't move.

It was my shorthand.

- - - Updated - - -

I isolated cleaning mode from skimmer mode because I didn't like the performance of either, and I couldn't get the RPMs right for my vac while the skimmer was involved. So now the vac gets 100% suction when in vac mode, and the skimmer gets 100% suction the rest of the time. Both vac and skimmer worked much better after that, and I was able to run both at lower RPMs, bonus!

That could be done manually, but that doesn't sound fun. My automation handles that for me, with an actuator on the three-way that balances suction port and skimmer.

Just pointing out that maybe your skimming issue is related to the fact that your sharing it's performance with the cleaner's.

Everything is cleaning well when they’re both running, it’s more of a circulation issue.

- - - Updated - - -

By the way, a suction port active all the time poses a bit of a safety risk, and technically is not code compliant. I'm having this same discussion in at least one or two other threads...

It’a not active all the time. My vac lives in the pool until we use it, then it gets removed and the port shut down. Done using pool, back in ya go little feller, and port back on.

 

[Dirk]

It’a not active all the time. My vac lives in the pool until we use it, then it gets removed and the port shut down. Done using pool, back in ya go little feller, and port back on.

Very safe. And compliant. Cool.