thinking of emptying pool

[outdoorsgal]

Here r the pics u requested Gene. I did not pic up the yard. dug out a fig tree on the right worried the roots were too close to the pool and waiting to find a pink guava tree to put in that hole.

 

[outdoorsgal]

View attachment 75570

- - - Updated - - -



- - - Updated - - -

hose that backwashed up the bottom side of panel and stack of bricks ready to throw at someone to detach the electric current

 

[outdoorsgal]

How about an updated complete set of test results from your TF-100 - and by that I mean all new results, not those from a few days ago. Include the water temp also.

Have you been keeping on top of bleach dosing? what FC numbers are you targeting?

FC
CC
TA
CH
CYA
Salt
Temp

With those in hand, we can better advise on additional steps.

yes, I've been on top of FC! I haven't let it go under 4 and have been trying to keep it between 4 and 9. I can't wait to get salt cell up and running, though, as i see how beneficial it is (and how $ it is using just chlorine. I'm sure someone here has done the math, but my neighbor says he only uses 3 pucks/week in pool/summer and a couple per mth in winter. seems cheaper-don't worry, I'm not going to the other side).

I'll post full set of #s tomorrow.

- - - Updated - - -

 

[outdoorsgal]

pH 7.9
FC 4.5
cc .5
ch 275
TA 120
cya 45 (round up to 50 but i kept at 45 in pool math for more exact readings)
80 degrees
salt 2400
csi .18

i have some theories in playing around with #s in trying to keep csi at 0 but i have to run so i wanted to at least get this out there. it's very different having low CH. Not so sure i need to get TA or and pH down so much now?! turned back on the bubbler for now just in case but I'm not sure if it's a rush to lower TA now? interesting and I look forward to hearing if there's one way to do this or more. In pool math there's more than one way to get csi to zero. thx!

 

[proavia]

In Pool Math - set CYA to 50. The scale on the testing tube is non-linear and there is no reliable way to guestimate 45.

Don't worry about aeration and getting your TA lower - normal acid additions will drop the TA over time.

pH at 7.9 is a little too high - drop it to about 7.5... this will help lower TA just a little and also lower the CSI . Remember, with a SWG, you ideally want the CSI in the 0 to -0.30 range - this will help prevent the cell from scaling too quickly (which was the issue with the cell to begin with).

Add enough salt to get to 3000-3500 - after it's fully dissolved, run pump for an additional 24 hours before turning SWG on.

Add enough CYA to get to 70

Keep testing and posting results to this thread - you need to be testing FC and pH DAILY for at least a couple of weeks until you get the SWG dialed in. And if FC is low, add liquid bleach to get back up to your target level.

Your pool and the safety of everyone who uses it is your primary responsibility. Testing frequently and adjusting your chemical levels as often as needed will help keep your pool trouble free.

 

[Trappshack]

pH 7.9
FC 4.5
cc .5
ch 275
TA 120
cya 45 (round up to 50 but i kept at 45 in pool math for more exact readings)
80 degrees
salt 2400
csi .18

i have some theories in playing around with #s in trying to keep csi at 0 but i have to run so i wanted to at least get this out there. it's very different having low CH. Not so sure i need to get TA or and pH down so much now?! turned back on the bubbler for now just in case but I'm not sure if it's a rush to lower TA now? interesting and I look forward to hearing if there's one way to do this or more. In pool math there's more than one way to get csi to zero. thx!

Outdoors gal you don't want to add any more cya if you're at 45 or 50 now. If you add any more cya CONDITIONER you'll go lower and then you will have to drain your pool some more.

Did you test your fill water for the salt content? I have 400 parts per million salt content in my fill water so when I got the 2600 I checked and started my saltwater generator on 0% just to see if the saltwater generator showed green light for the salt content. It had a solid green light showing enough salt content so I figured that over the summer with the evaporation and such with the 400 parts per million on fill water the salts going to go up anyway.

I also try to keep my pH as close to 7.2 7.4 as possible so you get less calcium buildup. In the swg as well as the pool walls and tile. Over and out trapperman

 

[outdoorsgal]

nervous about tfp recommendations

I was told once that if i had questions about recommendations or i should post them here. I can't help but be nervous about what i see has higher level cya and salt levels, particularly since i had a difficult experience emptying my pool recently and i have no clean-out or plan to be able to empty the pool again any time soon so i don't want to add too much. Also, I've had to do a few SLAMs since I've had my pool. i'm planning to be more on top of my pool but human nature and the way my life is I can't imagine checking my pool daily year round. with that, if it gets green again, having a higher level of CYA causes me to have to add less chlorine. is it reasonable to keep CYA closer to 50 in a salt pool? if not, what is the down side? If i have a salt system creating chlorine, why do i need to have a higher CYA anyway? when it's working well (not plugged with calcium) it works well with a historic CYA of 50 or less. The higher the CYA the more chlorine the salt cell needs to make, for the water to be balanced if i understand that correct.

As for salt, this is another thing that can only be lowered by emptying the pool. I have to look into where to find how much salt to add to my pool but i wanted to stick to the lower end, 2700 and am being told 3000-3500. As water evaporates salt will be added to the pool by refill water and then I"ll end up with too much salt. What happens if there's too much salt is another question i have.

I'm not sure if it would've made sense to post this on my thread or here. a few years on this forum and it takes me a while to learn. Even with my hesitancies I do appreciate the direction and opportunity to learn at a deeper level. I guess i'm not a blind faith type person. thx!

 

[proavia]

Outdoors gal you don't want to add any more cya if you're at 45 or 50 now. If you add any more cya CONDITIONER you'll go lower and then you will have to drain your pool some more.

Did you test your fill water for the salt content? I have 400 parts per million salt content in my fill water so when I got the 2600 I checked and started my saltwater generator on 0% just to see if the saltwater generator showed green light for the salt content. It had a solid green light showing enough salt content so I figured that over the summer with the evaporation and such with the 400 parts per million on fill water the salts going to go up anyway.

I also try to keep my pH as close to 7.2 7.4 as possible so you get less calcium buildup. In the swg as well as the pool walls and tile. Over and out trapperman

OP has a SWG - CYA needs to be higher than for a non-SWG pool. See the bottom half of this chart: [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]

Also, the focus needs to be on CSI rather than just pushing pH to 7.2-7.4 -- having too low a pH could cause calcium to leach from the plaster. Keeping the CSI between 0 and -0.30 will help keep any scaling to a minimum.

 

[proavia]

Re: nervous about tfp recommendations

If you are more comfortable with salt at 2700 - try it and see if the SWG will generate correctly. No harm in trying.

As for the CYA - with a SWG, the recommendation is 70-80. This helps prevent the FC from burning off so quick in our intense sun and heat. The SWG produces a small amount of FC for the time it is operational. This is in comparision to adding FC manually, where you add a bunch (relative to how a SWG adds FC). And if I recall, you are on SRP Time of Use - so probably have the pump off (no generation of FC by SWG) during peak times.

You can spend 5 minutes a day on the pool (in summer, less in winter) and enjoy a trouble free pool - or hours and hours over days/weeks trying to recover from a green swamp numerous times during the year (extra cost, time amd frustration).

You've been here almost 3 years. You know the TFP recommendations and how to test. And remember -- it's your pool- you are free to maintain it however you wish.

Oh yeah - would have probably been better to post this to your original thread so others could easily follow the story.

EDIT: Thanks to our crack moderating staff for merging your 2 posts!

 

[woodyp]

Re: nervous about tfp recommendations

As water evaporates salt will be added to the pool by refill water and then I"ll end up with too much salt.

Only if you're refilling with salt water....either that or I don't understand what you mean. Do you have the recommended K-1766 Taylor salt test kit?

 

[Jimrahbe]

odg,

I find that I can start tasting the salt when it gets over 3400 or so... My SWCG needs at least 2800 to run, so I like to have my salt between 3000 or 3200.. The cell does not make any more or less chlorine as long as you are within the manufacturer's recommended salt levels.. You can use whatever level works for you...

Same with the CYA... If you leave your CYA at 50 you will just have to turn your cell's percentage of output up, because the sun will burn off your FC quicker.. I still suggest that you increase your CYA to 70 or 80, but there is no harm in trying it at 50 and seeing what happens..

Keep in mind that you never what your FC to drop below 3 ppm, so it is better to run a little high, rather then right at the target FC... I use the target level as my minimum just to make sure..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[cfherrman]

Once you get your pool figured out, it's so easy

 

[Dirk]

Got brick red at 17. salmonish at 15. i'm going with 17 cuz that was the darkest color.

outdoorsgal,

I noticed something a few posts back. You're testing salt with the new kit the way I used to before joyfulnoise taught me the correct way. You don't keep counting drops until the color is as deep as it gets, like you do for TA or CH. The salt test is over once the first drop changes the color of the water permanently "salmonish." Not when you see it flash salmon and then go back to milky, but when it first stays "salmonish." The dark red brick color is too far. So in your example above, the test result is 15, not 17. Have another look at the kit's directions, and you'll find it says just that.

Good luck with your pool. Keep testing everyday for a while, and posting the results here each time, so the TFP experts can continue to help you.

 

[outdoorsgal]

OP has a SWG - CYA needs to be higher than for a non-SWG pool. See the bottom half of this chart: [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]

Also, the focus needs to be on CSI rather than just pushing pH to 7.2-7.4 -- having too low a pH could cause calcium to leach from the plaster. Keeping the CSI between 0 and -0.30 will help keep any scaling to a minimum.

as for CYA, that's why i posted in the "deep end" section. My continuous questions about the "whys" and "hows" I thought would be discussed there, but thx for replying here. I'm not sure the appropriateness of where to bring up what topics sometimes and want to make sure I'm following the rules and respecting advice while my stubborn brain continues to need to have second thoughts when something doesn't make sense.

CSI. got that. thx. that's really good to know i need to focus on that and not worry about bringing TA down really fast, too.

 

[outdoorsgal]

Re: nervous about tfp recommendations

If you are more comfortable with salt at 2700 - try it and see if the SWG will generate correctly. No harm in trying.

As for the CYA - with a SWG, the recommendation is 70-80. This helps prevent the FC from burning off so quick in our intense sun and heat. The SWG produces a small amount of FC for the time it is operational. This is in comparision to adding FC manually, where you add a bunch (relative to how a SWG adds FC). And if I recall, you are on SRP Time of Use - so probably have the pump off (no generation of FC by SWG) during peak times.

You can spend 5 minutes a day on the pool (in summer, less in winter) and enjoy a trouble free pool - or hours and hours over days/weeks trying to recover from a green swamp numerous times during the year (extra cost, time amd frustration).

You've been here almost 3 years. You know the TFP recommendations and how to test. And remember -- it's your pool- you are free to maintain it however you wish.

Oh yeah - would have probably been better to post this to your original thread so others could easily follow the story.

EDIT: Thanks to our crack moderating staff for merging your 2 posts!

yes, SRP time of use. good memory! 3-6pm is $ time of use.

salt-that's what i was thinking-start with 2700 and go from there. u know i'm still traumatized by the pool drain. pb was here today and said to drain in to my kitchen drain in my wall. he said after 1/2 hr of watching all places water could come out i'd be fine with a slow drain. i think it'd take a good 3 days doing it that way, though! he also said no worries about draining a pool in the summer with pebble. i'd still be nervous about doing that.

as for knowing how to test, we'll see! I got 2400 salt and pb came out today since pressure gauge is leaking on DE filter and he put a digital meter in my pool and got 1300!

as for where to post what kind of convo, i'll eventually get that right, along with my thinking on the pool and taking care of my pool.

- - - Updated - - -

Only if you're refilling with salt water....either that or I don't understand what you mean. Do you have the recommended K-1766 Taylor salt test kit?

yes, that's the kit. what i mean is there is salt in tap water which fills the pool as the water evaporates. that will add salt to the pool

 

[outdoorsgal]

odg,

I find that I can start tasting the salt when it gets over 3400 or so... My SWCG needs at least 2800 to run, so I like to have my salt between 3000 or 3200.. The cell does not make any more or less chlorine as long as you are within the manufacturer's recommended salt levels.. You can use whatever level works for you...

Same with the CYA... If you leave your CYA at 50 you will just have to turn your cell's percentage of output up, because the sun will burn off your FC quicker.. I still suggest that you increase your CYA to 70 or 80, but there is no harm in trying it at 50 and seeing what happens..

Keep in mind that you never what your FC to drop below 3 ppm, so it is better to run a little high, rather then right at the target FC... I use the target level as my minimum just to make sure..

Thanks,

Jim R.

that all sound pretty good. what i'm still wondering about r 2 things:
1. what if a person adds too much salt? what is the harm? other than salt ruins everything. i do have a chaise lounge that is now rusting next to the pool and marbella along with an oxidized pool fence that i dont' want to oxidize any faster than it naturally will.

2. makes sense about not running FC lower than 3. the times i have had trouble is when my salt cell has started to get filled of calcium and i dont get it cleaned fast enough. in the future i need to use chlorine while i'm waiting for some muscle to get it off of the pump so we can clean it. let's say i didn't notice in time and the CYA was 70. Would a CYA of 70 and a FC of 4 cause algae verses a CYA of 50 and a FC of 4? Or is the CYA/FC relation simply more for the safety of humans? I get that the more CYA the longer it will stabilize FC but if the CYA is higher do we now need more FC to prevent algae than we would've if we didn't have that high # of CYA?

- - - Updated - - -

Once you get your pool figured out, it's so easy

thank u

 

[outdoorsgal]

outdoorsgal,

I noticed something a few posts back. You're testing salt with the new kit the way I used to before joyfulnoise taught me the correct way. You don't keep counting drops until the color is as deep as it gets, like you do for TA or CH. The salt test is over once the first drop changes the color of the water permanently "salmonish." Not when you see it flash salmon and then go back to milky, but when it first stays "salmonish." The dark red brick color is too far. So in your example above, the test result is 15, not 17. Have another look at the kit's directions, and you'll find it says just that.

Good luck with your pool. Keep testing everyday for a while, and posting the results here each time, so the TFP experts can continue to help you.

that's great. i wrote those directions in permanent marker on both sets of directions, so that should help me a lot! i'm going to look back and make sure i can add a 40 lb bag of salt and will add 1/2 then continue to add. i'll post #s soon. thx!

 

[proavia]

Four posts today in less than 30 minutes to this post alone and I don't see test results..... it's important to stay on top of this. Quit worrying about the little stuff.

 

[outdoorsgal]

staying on top of fC and pH. i think.
fc 8
pH 7.5
added 40 lbs salt after i posted last. will retest salt and cya tomorrow. Added more cya now. .6 oz. going SLOW. my scale confuses me. better safe than sorry

 

[proavia]

Did you notice what the CSI was after lowering the pH from 7.9 to 7.5?

I already plugged the numbers in from yesterday - PoolMath showed a CSI of 0.29 -- not 0.18 as you listed. Lowering the pH today to 7.5 (with TA of 120) lowered the CSI into the suggested negative range (0 to - 0.30).

Adding a 40# bag of salt should raise your salt level a little over 300. Hopefully that will allow the SWG to work. Guess we will know tomorrow afternoon.

What CYA are you shooting for?

When you report the test results, please list all of them - even if you didn't do some since last report. This makes it easier for us to review them without trying to locate the report with those you didn't repeat. Also, when you do the FC test, do the CC as well.

FC 8
CC didn't do today
pH 7.5
TA 120 from 4/24
CH 275 from 4/24
CYA 50 from 4/24
Salt 2400 from 4/24
Temp 80
CSI enter it here from PoolMath