in urgent need of help on stains on plaster from cleaning with 8.5% bleach

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Hi Pat,
Here is the latest FC readings and my actions:

Last night 10pm FC = 8.5, added 5 cups Bleach to target 12 ppm.
This morning 6am FC = 9.5, added 5 1/4 cups bleach.
CC is still 0 so that's good. I will not have a chance to monitor today until late afternoon about 4-5pm. Will update before end of day.

Also spoke at length with Tech support from Jack's magic on all the products and process steps. If the test kit confirms metal, the product can not be used in water temps. under 65. My water temp. is 62 so I will have to wait a few weeks till it is warm enough.

Have a good day,
Bob
 
Thanks for the update Bob. Obviously there is still something eating a little FC. Your schedule will dictate the next few days, but just keep in mind you do want the water algae free and pass the slam before starting the metals treatment. That way you can let let the FC level drop a bit. If you have anymore questions, let us know. Have a great day.
 
Hi Pat,
I just got home and has been 12 hours since last testing and bleach addition (unfortunately it could not be avoided). I was shocked at how much FC loss there was. Additionally, The black algae is again visible. And, I now have a CC of 0.5ppm. Another mistake I made was mis-reading the chlorine content on the bottle....It is actually 8.25% not 8.5%. I have adjusted when using Pool math calculator. Based on getting FC back up to 12ppm, I will nned to add 75 oz. or 9 1/3 cups of bleach, which I will do after I post this.
Thanks for checking in again and for continuing to be available. I am committed to seeing this thru, but it looks like it could take quite a few days.
Bob

My FC mis down to 6.5ppm
 
Okay Bob, understood. You understand the SLAM process will take longer based on your schedule and availability at home to monitor and add bleach. We see that from time to time. Not ideal, but life happens. :) From here on though, I think you have a good handle on what's needed. Like I said before, don't worry too much about the staining as that will be something addressed when you treat the entire pool based on the Magic Jack's instructions.

For now, or as soon as you can do so consistently, simply maintain the SLAM. The CYA should be at 30 and the FC at 12. From there, follow the guidance on the SLAM page and it will work. Earlier we were trying to save you some back-work on that filter, but from the amount of FC loss, even after a 100% drain & fill, it sounds as though you'll need to check those filters as well and rinse them off. In any case, we hope you get everything completed soon so you can focus on stains treatment and enjoying your swimming season. If you have any other questions, we'll be watching. Have a good evening.
 
Pat, You are right....The filter has now gone up 4 PSI.....Tomorrow I will take apart and clean all 4 filters and put back in. So, how often should I test FC moving forward and adjust? Every 2 hrs, 4 rs, etc? Should I set my alarm clock to make sure I check and re-balance when I normally sleep? I am not concerned about the metal stains as there is nothing I can do about that until water temp. goes up above 65 degrees and that will be weeks here in Phx. My only focus now is successfully passing SLAM.
Bob
 
So, how often should I test FC moving forward and adjust? Every 2 hrs, 4 rs, etc?
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No need to wake up in the middle of the night. I think we would all go nuts if we had to do that. :crazy: ha. In the beginning of the SLAM, I'd check the FC about an hour after reaching SLAM level (12). Then if it holds fairly well, add bleach and check in about 2 hours, then next time maybe extend to 3 hrs if it's holding well. Eventually you'll see a pattern where the water retains FC better & better until it drops very little throughout the day. That's when you know you're getting close and ready to try another overnight (OCLT) test.

In your case, I'm still hoping the SLAM will go well and maybe only take 2-3 days. I normally don't say that, but your water is 100% new, so I'm still optimistic. Cleaning the filter should help, and I suspect the reason you finally saw the PSI rise is because it finally trapped enough dead algae from the plumbing and/or filter to make a difference. After the filter, make sure to brush the pool surfaces at least once a day to keep any biofilms from trying to re-grow. Not sure if you have a ladder or steps, but if you do they should be inspected/cleaned as well. They are notorious for hiding algae. Normally we would recommend checking in the light niche, but I believe you already had that out a couple days ago so it should be fine.

So aside from the bedtime hours, do your best to keep the FC at 12, and at some point you might want to do one more CYA test just to feel confident that it is indeed at a CYA of 30. That, along with daily brushing and water circulation should help get rid of any residual algae. Hang in there Bob!
 
Hi Pat,
Today was another setback day. Thought I was gaining ground in that my FC was at 10.5 when I took it in the AM. However My CYA never increased and is still below 20ppm and the FC was quickly consumed. I spent the day buying additional bleach and CYA. I added a cup more CYA to the sock and will squeeze it out before bed time. Additionally, I spent the day cleaning all 4 of my cartridge filters and re-assembling the filter. I decided that Instead of adding a rediculous amount of bleach (currently sitting at 5.5ppm) to reach my target of 12ppm, I will start SLAM once I KNOW WHAT my CYA is, instead of assuming my FC target is correct. I will take CYA readings until I am at least 30ppm.
Thanks for your continued support.
Bob
 
Hi Pat,
I have a quick question......How long after you have squeezed all the contents of CYA from the sock and into a cloud of dust in the pool water, will it take to distribute in the water to get an accurate reading? I have been circulating the water for several hours after I added another 1/2 cup of CYA, and does not seem to have moved the needle much. CYA is at about the same as after I added a cup last night with this AM testing (in between 20 and 30ppm). I don't want to get too high, so am cautious about how much I add at a time, but also concerned I will run out of my CYA test reagent. I ahve already gone thru 1 bottle and have part of one left. I assume after squeezing the sock out of CYA it should be dispersed in the pool water in a couple hours given the size of my motor, pool etc?
Thanks,
Bob
 

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How long after you have squeezed all the contents of CYA from the sock and into a cloud of dust in the pool water, will it take to distribute in the water to get an accurate reading?
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We did some extensive testing on this. The results were once dissolved, you can consider your CYA at the predicted target within the next 24 hrs or so. It doesn't take a full week as previously thought. I think that was related to granules that may be stuck in a filter by mistake.

I have been circulating the water for several hours after I added another 1/2 cup of CYA, and does not seem to have moved the needle much.
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I'm confused by the statement though. Needle? The CYA test has no needle and shouldn't impact your filter PSI gauge, so you'll have to help explain to me what you mean on that one.

But here's the most important thing to consider .... to increase CYA by "10" in your 9,200 gal pool, it takes about 1.5 cups of stabilizer. So if your CYA was ~ 20, then 1.5 cups should get you to 30. Now let's say you went slightly high to 35 or 40. Not the worst thing. Instead of an FC of 12, you would increase it to 16 and do everything else the same. So save your R-0013 reagent for now. Let everything mix and maintain your FC at 12 as much as you possibly can. Make sure to brush everywhere and if the pool PSI gauge does increase on you by about 25%, it's time to rinse again. Perhaps in another couple days you can check the CYA again under a clear/sunny sky with the sun at your back. Most important right now is FC (12) consistency and brushing. Hope that helps you out Bob. Enjoy your evening.
 
Pat,
Sorry for the confusion in my comment about "Barely moved the needle"....That was my why of saying it barely affected the reading on the plastic tube scale from last night's CYA addition......
I have already let my FC fall as I wanted to get my CYA correct before dumping gallon after gallon, $ after $ of bleach which I have been for days without optimum pool conditions. I will test CYA again tomorrow and once my reading is at LEAST 30ppm, I will re-start SLAM.
Thanks for responding and it was a big help to know even though I dissolved the CYA into the pool using the sock method, it will take 24 hours to register. I would have kept adding and testing today if not for that. Hopefully the CYA will be there tomorrow.
Bob
 
Hopefully the CYA will be there tomorrow.
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You should see a change. But if not, you can feel comfortable adding stabilizer in increments of about 1 cup (about 7 ppm of CYA), or maybe 1.5 cups at most (10 ppm of CYA). Not sure if I passed this along before, but here's my little CYA testing reminder if you need it:
Proper lighting is critical for the CYA test, so you want to test for CYA outside on a bright sunny day. Taylor recommends standing outside with your back to the sun and the view tube in the shade of your body. Use the mixing bottle to combine/gently mix the required amounts of pool water and R-0013 reagent, let sit for 30 seconds, then gently mix again. Then, while holding the skinny tube with the black dot at waist level, begin squirting the mixed solution into the skinny tube. Watch the black dot until it completely disappears. Once it disappears, record the CYA reading. After the first test, you can pour the mixed solution from the skinny view tube back to the mixing bottle, shake, and do the same test a second, third, or fourth time to instill consistency in your technique, become more comfortable with the testing, and validate the CYA reading.
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Pat,
Thanks for this. I found as well thru links, and even though it is somewhat "Subjective", I believe am am testing correctly. Today was not the best day to do testing here, as it was overcast with periods of "weak" sun filtering thru.
Have a good night and thanks for all your advice and guidance....Once again, hoping for a more cooperative day tomorrow.
Bob
 
Good Morning Pat. I have a question regarding the subjective nature of the CYA test. Testing this AM in bright sunlight, back to the sun, I am able to get a reading of about 30 or slightly more. However, I can still see the outline of the dot, but the black is gone. I believe its due to the bright backlighting on the pool deck below me. Now in order to completely remove the outline of the dot, my reading is about 20ppm. Which technique is correct? If you look at the taylor photo of "DONE", you can still make out the outline of the dot.
Thanks,
Bob
 
From your description it sounds like 30 is where you are currently.

From everything I have read you are just supposed to glance at it - look away and then glance at it to see if the dot is gone. If you stare at it and can just make out the outside of the dot, then that sounds like you are pretty close to the correct number - which does correspond to what the Taylor test should be showing...It is a hard test to figure out. I am never 100% certain. I often do it a few times with the same sample, and will also ask for another set of eyes form my wife and/or son when I am uncertain.
 
Staring at that dot can drive you nuts. :crazy: I tend to squirt some reagent fluid into the vial at about 10 ppm increments, look away briefly, then look back. Then I'll pour the same reagent back & forth (mixing bottle and vial) and do this 3-4 times to feel confident in my average results.
 
Glad to see you back Pat....Another hurdle introduced itself and I want to run it by you B4 restarting SLAM.....
So assuming I am reading CYA level at about 30ish, I was getting ready to restart. If you remember, this whole thread started because of black algae a couple summers ago. This is why I scrubbed the light niche, etc. and ended up seeing metal staining likely from the algaecides I have been using. I have no other nooks or crannies in my pool.....However, when adjusting 1 of my returns to get better skim results, the spa fitting (ball-like) popped out of the socket. I noticed that the threads to the ring that holds the return in the PVC return piping were brown and BLACK. I took a toothbrush and about 75% of it went away, but could not see any falling particles to run the "smear" test on to confirm black algae. I have read a LOT on this site about BA over the years. Some responses indicate it is impossible for it to grow on PVC piping. Is it POSSIBLE??Should I take the other 3 remaining out, scrub those if they show the same, and leave the spa ball type return fitting OUT while doing my SLAM? Seems to be one thing after another holding me back.....
 
Bob, I think you should go ahead and start the SLAM now so that the chlorine (bleach) can start working. At the same time, if you are able to disassemble any other returns for inspection & cleaning, that's certainly a good idea - as long as disassembly doesn't result in breakage. We all have those moments when even our best intentions ends-up in a bigger mess. :hammer: So depending upon the age of your pool and parts, use your best judgement. As for that one return eyeball, you can leave it out for now if you like. It shouldn't effect your SLAM. Inspecting and cleaning all parts of your pool and equipment is part of the SLAM regardless of the type of algae suspected.

Not to get too far ahead, but once you do compete the SLAM process, then we can provide more recommendations to help you move forward with other issues, but the regular SLAM has to be completed first. So if you're ready .... with a CYA of 30, pH should be on the low side (about 7.2) then increase and "maintain" the FC at "12" and you're off to the races. Good luck!
 

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