90 degree elbows or 45s?

Yes, you can tell. The glue joint is about 1/2 to 2/3 as wide as Sch40 which is why they should not be used. If you bought them and any hardware store, they are definitely DWV. You can only get Sch40 sweeps online or sometimes industrial irrigation warehouse may have them.

Forgot to mention, there are schedule 40 DWV fittings that should be ok to use. They are just dual purpose.

These are not ok:

NIBCO - Elbows - Fittings - The Home Depot

Shop PVC DWV Fittings at Lowes.com


These are ok:

PVC Schedule 40 Socket 90° Sweep Elbows | U.S. Plastic Corp.


https://www.amazon.com/Spears-Fitting-Degree-Schedule-Socket/dp/B008I4DS18?th=1
 
I have seen that one but since it was not done by a lab or engineering firm, I did not put too much faith in the results. Too many factors can influence the results. One I can see from the picture is that they did not use enough pipe at the exit of the fitting to make sure the flow was fully developed before exiting the pipe.
 
Yes, you can tell. The glue joint is about 1/2 to 2/3 as wide as Sch40 which is why they should not be used. If you bought them and any hardware store, they are definitely DWV. You can only get Sch40 sweeps online or sometimes industrial irrigation warehouse may have them.

Forgot to mention, there are schedule 40 DWV fittings that should be ok to use. They are just dual purpose.

These are not ok:

NIBCO - Elbows - Fittings - The Home Depot

Shop PVC DWV Fittings at Lowes.com


These are ok:

PVC Schedule 40 Socket 90° Sweep Elbows | U.S. Plastic Corp.


https://www.amazon.com/Spears-Fitting-Degree-Schedule-Socket/dp/B008I4DS18?th=1


There are two part numbers on my sweeps. 411-9120 and 411-9130. Those numbers match up to a Waterway product. And there is a scripty W also on the sweep. So am I good to go with a Waterway 411-9120? That part seems to be a common item on pool and spa supply websites, though I can't really find a definitive "this is schedule 40" anywhere online...

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Oh, I got them from my pool service guy, half of which he installed. Not from a big box store...
 
For ten years or more, mas985 has been our foremost expert on pool hydraulics. I have asked him many, many questions in this area and his answers are always helpful and spot on perfect.

Certainly use whatever fittings you like in your pool but you would be incorrect in believing 2-45's (or sweep 90's) offers any significant advantage.....it just doesn't.
 
I have to agree with duraleigh not only does mas985 almost always have the technically correct answer he always has data and reputable links to support his answers. Then to top it off the lil bugger is always open to civil conversation and discussion if people disagree.

As for my experience in many many industrial settings, it is best to use the combination of fittings that result in the least number of fittings being used.
 
I just happen to be reading on this. I ran across this:

Do Different PVC Fittings Really Make a Difference in Water Flow? - POND Trade Magazine

It gives a quick and dirty reference to the differences -- while not done in a vacuum, it's pretty simple to understand.

Yes, I saw that a couple of weeks ago. It says 10% improvement with two 45s and 20% improvement with the sweep. But then there are other articles on the internet that say that the two 45s are up to 10% worse! So which to believe?
 

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Yes, I saw that a couple of weeks ago. It says 10% improvement with two 45s and 20% improvement with the sweep. But then there are other articles on the internet that say that the two 45s are up to 10% worse! So which to believe?
Frankly, I don't either. My inclination is to trust the engineering based sources and references because they have been around a lot longer than some of these web sites and I have used similar sources throughout my engineering career.

But there maybe valid explanations for the differences as well. In this case, they tell you not to focus on the setup but the setup is critical in this type of measurement. You must be meticulous in your methodology or you cannot trust the results. The exit is a bit too close to the fitting and not representative of typical pool plumbing changes we are talking about.

Another potential problem with this type of test is that they say they are using "typical fittings" for the test but what I have noticed is there is no such thing as a typical PVC schedule 40 fittings. I have several different types on my equipment pad and solar that appear to have different radius of curvature. This will cause different head loss in the fittings since the geometry of the fitting determines the head loss.

As for other sources on the internet, part of the problem I see is the lack of documentation you will see on many web sites that post head loss numbers. Engineering ToolBox is one of these sites. It has great information but they do not source any of the information. If fact, they have a disclaimer on the site that says the following:

The content in The Engineering ToolBox is copyrighted but can be used with NO WARRANTY or LIABILITY. Important information should always be double checked with alternative sources. All applicable national and local regulations and practices concerning this aspects must be strictly followed and adhered to.

I tried to contact them about where they got the information for the fitting head loss but got no response.

I know everyone wants a simple answer to this but I do not think there is a simple answer.

But consider this. Even if the above test is true and there is a 10% benefit to 2x45, the pad fittings may be at most 10% of the total head loss in the plumbing due to the other plumbing and equipment which makes the total impact only 1%.

However, if you really wanted to have a major impact on head loss, forget about the 45s and just up size the plumbing. Going from 1 1/2" to 2" reduces the head loss in the pipe by 71% and the fittings by 63%. That is a much larger impact than messing with fittings.
 
Also, when you upsize the plumbing, the velocity slows down and the noise is reduced. Excessive velocity, especially with air bubbles in the water, causes excessive noise in the system.
 
There are two part numbers on my sweeps. 411-9120 and 411-9130. Those numbers match up to a Waterway product. And there is a scripty W also on the sweep. So am I good to go with a Waterway 411-9120? That part seems to be a common item on pool and spa supply websites, though I can't really find a definitive "this is schedule 40" anywhere online...

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Oh, I got them from my pool service guy, half of which he installed. Not from a big box store...

The Waterway sweeps are most certainly Sch 40...No issues there
 
The Waterway sweeps are most certainly Sch 40...No issues there

OK, whew! Thanks for letting me know!

My personal take-away from this thread: while there is some anecdotal evidence that suggests using sweeps would be better in general (especially with a VS pump), there doesn't seem to be any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that suggests using sweeps would be worse. Further, there seems to be a slight consensus that sweeps don't likely outperform regular 90s by any great degree, so I can stop fretting about the 90s I can't get at to convert, and be content that my plumbing is as good as it's going to get (Sch40 2" throughout (as least above ground)), except for the one vacuum line which is 1.5") and Sch40 sweep 90s wherever they could fit...

How'my doin?

I might have been able to design a system with sightly fewer 45s and 90s, but with a VS pump powered by my new PV solar panels, I don't have any real reason to fret about that either...

OK, back to worrying about my TA and CH! ;)

Oh, one thing I might contribute: I noticed a huge improvement in flow and overall system performance when I had new cartridge filters installed. I had to dial back my pump speed because my vacuum was crawling right out of the water! Far enough to lose prime on the pump. There's a place to look for a performance bump.
 
Also, when you upsize the plumbing, the velocity slows down and the noise is reduced. Excessive velocity, especially with air bubbles in the water, causes excessive noise in the system.

I can attest to this. When I got my suction side air leaks fixed, the rolling rock sounds from my Jandy valves went away......... I was sure there were small stones stuck in there.

And I have excessive velocity due to my Single Speed 2HP pump. Yes that is on the upgrade list but I just replaced the motor in the spring (before finding TFP) :mad:
 
Yes that is on the upgrade list but I just replaced the motor in the spring (before finding TFP)
icon_mad.gif

Is pool equipment like beer? You don't actually own any of it, you just rent it for a short while?
 
The Short, Common, 90º Elbows 35.5 gallons/min, which is 2130 gallons/hr.

Two 45º Elbows next to each other 38.5 gallons/min, which is 2310 gallons/hr.

The 90º Long Sweep 39.8 gallons/min, which is 2388 gallons/hr.

I would guess these numbers make sense. As the video states. Sweeps are a 12% increase in efficiency. Worth the watch: Do Different PVC Fittings Really Make a Difference in Water Flow? - POND Trade Magazine

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Check these out as well. Confirmed these are Schedule 40. LASCO Fittings Products: Pool/Spa
 
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