Pool build - Southwest FL - Tampa

Well - we have experienced our first major issue... When the pool store which inappropriately sold us a Demo Dolphin S300 decided to "make it right" by sending us a new consumer model, they asked that we box up the Demo and return it. When my wife took it out of the pool, it was covered in a hard white substance with certain flecks of color in it....it was covered in Pebblesheen pool finish.

As you may recall, the pebbletec installer put the coating on during the coldest day of the year in Tampa - it was 29° that morning and barely over 35° when they shot the finish coat. I had seen on PebbleTec's website that the temperatures must be above 40° that day and at least 3 days prior to applying the PebbleTec coating... The installer called his supervisor who told him, since it would be over 40° later that day - they were to proceed. We called the pool builder and ensured that the "lifetime" warranty would not be affected. They said to let them proceed.

Pool builder filled the pool the next day. Our security cameras show that the builder's maintenance guy then returned 3-4 days later to start adding chemicals and startup the equipment...I belive he brushed the pool that day also...but did not leave a brush for my wife to use (as it was stated in the contract that they would provide the brush and net) and made no mention that someone should be brushing it. It was another 5 days before the pool company's maintenance guy came back to check water, add more chemicals and brush/vacuum the pool again. This time he left the brush, net and a manual suction side vacuum....but no instructions on when/how to brush or how to connect the vacuum and set pump speeds. (this was all 2 weeks before "pool school"). I again reached out the to pool builder who said "Walt is taking care of your pool - you can brush more if you want to, you can't hurt it by brushing more often".

Walt came 1 more time in the two week period and then scheduled 'pool school'...which obviously failed to give my wife enough information.. For example, my wife too the water to Leslie's to test it - because she was not comfortable with the TF Test Kit. Leslies sold her Muriatic Acid and said to add 15oz. She wasn't comforatble with the acid - so, three days later, she had her father add 15oz of acid. (apparently, it was not explained during pool school that pool water chemistry changes quickly and if you can't use 3-day old data - you must re-test.)

My mother-in-law was over swimming with the wife and asked if the pool could be a little warmer....so wifey cranked the 400,000btu NG pool heater up and got the water to 90° - and left it there for a few days...until the heater reported error code HS (Water Temperature Sensing Error). Again - maybe something the pool builder may have wanted to discuss with the wife during pool school? But maybe Walt figured no one would ever try to heat 10,500 gallons to 90+ degrees? (p.s. - I can't wait to see the gas bill)

It was the next day that the wife found EVERYTHING was covered in loose Pebblesheen finish. It was all over the Demo robot, in the skimmer, pump, filter.......

Pool builder was not responsive, so Wife called PebbleTec directly. They told her that it MUST be due to water chemistry.

That was ~3 days ago.. Pool Builder has still been non-reposnsive. We have not yet made final payment to the builder, nor have we had the final inspection. I told the wife not to use the pool and believe that the PB should be responsible for fixing anything that needs fixed...but I conceede that, due to ignorance of pool care, my wife did allow the water chemistry to get and stay out of acceptable levels for several days.

Could 5 days of water chemistry (Per Leslie's Pool store) with high Ph and "high phospates" cause Pebblesheen to separate?

Below are the results of Leslie's test ( I know - use the TF 100 test kit...but I can't from Afghanistan and the wife is stressed / frustrated beyond belief )

FC: 4
TC:4
Salt: 3200
CH: 260
CYA: 80
TA: 120
pH: 8.0
Acid Demand: 15
Copper: 0
Iron: 0
Phophates: 200

This is unbelievable. I am going to go out on a limb so I apologize in advance, and moderators please edit as necessary. Perhaps a fellow TFP living close by would volunteer to step in to help you in person.
 
This ^^^^^^ Please tell me you have this in writing of some sort-text, email, ???

I will tell you a weekly pool service is not going to do your pool much good. The PH will be so high by the time they get there it will have already done some more damage :(

Can you talk to your FIL man to man and see if he can step in with the PB in your place for a face to face?

I hate that this has happened. Let me know what your FIL says and is willing to do.

Kim (NO cheering on this one)

1. We do have it in writing - email exchange with pool builder.
2. It may be better to have MIL call pool builder instead - she's a bit more fiesty when it comes to this sort of thing. :mad: FIL will certainly advocate for his little girl though..
3. This has instilled the importance of more frequest testing AND immediate remediation to the wife. I have confidence that she will make the time to do what needs to be done now that she realizes the detriments with first hand experience.
 
This is unbelievable. I am going to go out on a limb so I apologize in advance, and moderators please edit as necessary. Perhaps a fellow TFP living close by would volunteer to step in to help you in person.

Kim has already offered over the phone support - but dearest wife (my favorite human) has been reluctant to phone a stranger for help. Wifey is strong willed and a little stubborn - me, I'm not too proud to admit I have no clue and phone a stranger!
Brother-in-Law and his wife arrived late last night. While they do not own a pool or have experience, BIL has time, intelligence and common sense. Since he is staying in the guest room, maybe I can talk him into learning the TF 100 test kit.
 
Local PebbleTec rep told wife last night "Leslie's does not understand performance pool finishes, we recommend you go to Pinch-A-Penny." While I have not seen the actual test result print-out, Pinch-A-Penny sold the wife a gallon of Muratic Acid and said she needed to use all of it... According to pool math, that would mean that the pH has risen to ~10!!
 
:( PAP is still a pool store and unless they use the drop tests the PROPER way (rinse tubes between tests, take their time, count the drops without missing any, etc)

Here is hoping BIL will be willing to learn the tests and feel comfortable using muratic acid (eye protection a must please).

I am VERY curious to hear more about the plaster in and on everything. Will your wife take and send you a pic so you can post it here for us to see what is happening?

LOL her being strong willed! I think I like her! My offer stands if/when she wants to reach out. :hug:

Kim:kim:
 
I want to first thank everyone here in TFP land who has reached out and provided guidance and shown empathy towards our situation. This is a great community!

An update to our pool... Turns out that a culmination of several different events led to an inaccurate conclusion of what must be happening to our pool.

1. There appears to be NO plaster/Pebblesheen damage. The pieces of pebble and sand found in the pump basket/filter were most likely debris from the main-drain left after the initial pool finish installation and acid wash. My wife had recently adjusted the valves to pull more water from the main drains - hoping it would assist with the falling leaves. Side-effect: the added flow through the main drain sucked all the debris out of the lines.
2. I believe we experienced calcium deposits and that is what my wife was seeing on the robotic pool cleaner and waterline tile. The pH was way too high with no one addressing it in a timely fashion..
3. The heater issue isn't resolved yet, but the pool company has opened a warranty case with Hayward and a tech is supposed to come out to fix it. Pool builder thinks it's the temperature sensor.. (Remember, my wife tried to make this a 10,500 gallon hot tub...)
4. We learned that the acid demand is crazy high right now - as the Pebblesheen finish is curing.
5. We learned that it was WAY too soon to be using the robot on the new finish - although the PebbleTec and Pool Builder knew we were getting an automatic cleaner, neither said we needed to wait at least 90-days to use it.
6. Most importantly, wifey has the water chemistry in check and is successfully performing home water tests. She still goes to the Pinch-A-Penny to buy acid and brings a water sample for them to test - she gets a free print-out of their tests to keep in a record book. (The P-A-P is the most convenient store to buy the acid - it's walking distance)

Backyard.jpg
 
Yay! Fantastic news! Water looks great. So I see the ladder. I see the roof. Distance from roof to pool edge approx 4 feet. Distance from roof to middle of deep end approx 10 feet. Depth from roof to water line approx 8 feet. Can you supply the depth of the deep end so I can finish this math equation?:splash: Talk about a slam dunk!! Yah, baby!

I wish I could get to the bottom of the vac on new pebble dealio. Your news of 90 days is the first I heard of that! Geez. My plaster guy said run my vac any time, no problem. And I've read everywhere in between, too. I have a suction side vac that rolls on wheels. Maybe different than a robot? But I thought a robot ran around on brushes. And you're supposed to brush new plaster and pebble a lot. So what the heck? Oh well. Nothing I can do about it now. I started my vac I think in week 2. It's been 90 days so there's no going back. Whatever damage they would cause, doesn't anyone know if you see it right away, or is it something that shows up years from now? Right now my pool looks great. I wonder if the initial acid wash makes a difference? Or the 90 days really applies more to plaster? As the wheels would scar the plaster maybe? Maybe the plaster in pebble is protected by the pebbles?

Glad to hear everything is back on track! Cheers!! :cheers:
 
"Can you supply the depth of the deep end so I can finish this math equation?" <----- 5.5 feet. (too shallow for what you are thinking)

I was thinking the same thing about robot on new pebble - what harm could a 16lb robot with soft brushes do to the pebble finish? The Dolphin S300 is on rubber tracks and that 16lbs in the water is probably more like 4lbs on the finish...and when it is climbing the walls, I don't think there's more than a pound of pressure on the wall. But - as a precaution - it's manual vacuum for the next couple months.
 
Your post makes my heart SO happy!!!! What a wonderful way to start the weekend! THANKS!

Yeah the PH is :crazy: with new plaster for sure!

Love, love, love the plaster color back there! SO clean looking!

Make sure none of those nails end up in the pool. If one bounces in make sure they get it out right away! Now if DIRK ends up in the pool I guess you can let him stay as he should not cause too much harm!

Heater-If you want to turn your pool into a hot tub you should be able to. That should not break the heater. I am glad they are going through the warranty to fix it. Of course I am not the one paying the gas/heating bill so...........there is that!

Wife-you are awesome! You have stuck to it and figured it all out! Just make sure to use YOUR test results for any chemical additions instead of using what PAP says.

Kim:kim:
 
Nails, right, great tip, Kim. My PV solar just happened to coincide with my new pebble install. Pebble guys refused to work while anyone was on the roof, for any reason. Apparently, they had to deal with nails in new plaster one too many times (getting embedded, then rusting out weeks later). But even if not embedded, you don't want any nails in your beautiful new pool, for sure!

5.5' deep, hmmmm, I think I could make it...

I got my pool up to 95° a couple times last summer, with my solar. Just let it run to see what it could do. Daughter would finally get in!! Not sure what that did to my chlorine consumption (that was pre-new-pebble and pre-TFP)...

Any long-term affects for a super warm pool? Do spas wear out any faster than pools, given the exact same surface finish?
 

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The warm/hot water will not change anything on the plaster. Think about the spas. Many people plumb them so they can just heat them. They have the same plaster as the pool.Now warm water can "feed" algae extra fast if the FC is not kept at the correct levels. Algae yummmms warm water so keep an eye on the CYA and FC chart to make sure your FC does not go below the min. level.

Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart

Kim:kim:
 
My gas meter reading occurred two weeks after the pool heater was put into service.. The bill was $140 higher than the previous month (from $30 to $170). So....um...turning the pool into a spa costs ~$280/month during the coldest days in Tampa. :(

Would a higher water temperature affect chlorine consumption? Playing around in pool math, the temperature slightly affects CSI - but 10° changes do not make significant changes.
 
My gas meter reading occurred two weeks after the pool heater was put into service.. The bill was $140 higher than the previous month (from $30 to $170). So....um...turning the pool into a spa costs ~$280/month during the coldest days in Tampa.

Yikes, that's about what I figured out before I put the solar panels on the roof. I have a NG heater, but I've never turned it on.

I can see my swimming pool from my shower. I can really get that shower nice and hot. That's the closest I'll ever get to swimming in warm water in winter!! Oh, I do envy those folks in Florida who are swimming right now!!

Affect consumption? I would think so. Not sure if the warmer water affects the evaporation of chlorine, but since nasties grow better and faster in warm water, chlorine would have more work to do.
 
Thanks, Sehrmude! I like the grout color you used a lot. The NPT website shows it with bright white grout, which I think emphasizes the grout lines too much and detracts from the quatrefoil pattern in the tile itself. Your grout blends better and keeps the quatrefoil as the highlight. Do you know if they used NPT grout, and if so, what the color name or number is?
 
Thanks, Sehrmude! I like the grout color you used a lot. The NPT website shows it with bright white grout, which I think emphasizes the grout lines too much and detracts from the quatrefoil pattern in the tile itself. Your grout blends better and keeps the quatrefoil as the highlight. Do you know if they used NPT grout, and if so, what the color name or number is?

I am not certain which brand of grout they used.. The color is Platinum Gray.
 
Here's an updated photo of the pool with the new shed! The shed was built by a company called 'Historic Shed', which recreated the original shed structure from 1926 - but added windows to match the house (also 1926). I'm not sure which I am more excited to see in person, pool or shed!
PoolPhoto1.jpg
 

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