$140,000 Quote for an amazing pool- Is this reasonable?

[kimkats]

You are SO in the right place! Pool care made "Trouble Free"!

We will talk more about pool care as you get closer to having a pool instead of just a drawing! LOL

Kim

 

[ummgood]

Honestly if I was wanting a pool like that I would go with the builder you know built the example pool. The pool you are displaying is very artistic and I think going to any other random pool builder will probably not get you the results you want. My pool is probably 1/2 the cost of yours but I purposely chose to go with a PB that knew what I wanted when it came to the design. I had another PB offer to do the same design but there is something to be said about the person who has the vision being able to pull it off better than someone who is trying to copy some other person's vision.

For me if you save 10 or 20k by going with a lesser pool builder you'll be sorry because you'll notice things that weren't done right since the person doing the cheaper bid doesn't really know the overall picture. It sounds to me for what I am seeing that the pool isn't out of the ballpark price wise.

And with that said there is some cost to hiring out for something that artistic. If I want my wall painted white I can go to anyone. If I want someone with a flare for design to come in and make my house look like a designer designed it I am going to pay a lot more. I know on my last house I paid someone extra to come up with a design plan and used that to pick materials etc... when it was built. When I went to sell my house I got a top dollar offer in 1 day. I think the $2k I paid for the designer paid for itself multiple times over.

 

[kimkats]

ummmmmm I have to say you are a very good writer! There are excellent points!

Kim

 

[ping]

You might want to look into all the maintenance of an infinity edge pool. I believe you will want some type of automated acid delivery system to keep the pH inline. With an infinity edge, raised spa, and SWG pool in So Cal you are going to use a lot of acid.

With that pool design there will be a lot of hand cleaning in that pool. No automated cleaner will get those raised areas. I would make sure those areas have enough returns to help keep them clean as possible.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

You might want to look into all the maintenance of an infinity edge pool. I believe you will want some type of automated acid delivery system to keep the pH inline. With an infinity edge, raised spa, and SWG pool in So Cal you are going to use a lot of acid.

With that pool design there will be a lot of hand cleaning in that pool. No automated cleaner will get those raised areas. I would make sure those areas have enough returns to help keep them clean as possible.

Yeah, I look at those sheer infinity edges with water running down the sides of the dark stone and can only think of one thing - calcium scale! When the water is not running, there is going to be a lot of evaporite deposits left behind on any surface that had water running over it (or splash-back when the water hits the stones). I agree with the manual cleaning aspect which leads me to recommend that you add an in-floor cleaning system to a pool like that so that all those nooks & crevices can get cleaned out.

 

[mgmoore7]

It's hard for me to believe that they are only making 30,000 on a 300000 job. What if things go wrong and He he has to spend an extra 15000. That would mean he only makes $15000 on the job. In my area landscapers try to make over $10000 on a $30000 job. Call me skeptical, but I think he is making at least 60000.

Agreed, IMHO, there is no way he only hasonly 10% profit. His profit has to be more like 30% or maybe more, otherwise he would not be in business and on a large project they need even more profit margin built in to deal with the unknown. The larger the project, the higher the risk.

 

[JamesW]

It also depends on how "profit" is calculated. It might be after 100% of all expenses, including All employee pay, overhead, materials, subcontractors, taxes, commissions, etc so that there is an extra $30,000 free and clear in the bank.

 

[Casey]

What a pool this will be! If you're going to spend that kind of money, buy the TF100 and not trust just anyone with this *baby*. No one will appreciate it like you will.

 

[PAGirl]

I'm guessing the $30,000 is the actual charge for the labor. Chances are they will mark up the products like the pumps, etc. kind of the way mechanics do. They have a dealer cost they pay, then they charge the "list" price to the customer, so they also make money on that, on top of their labor charge per hour. (Worked in an auto parts store and did paperwork in a garage.)

 

[dw9000]

Honestly if I was wanting a pool like that I would go with the builder you know built the example pool. The pool you are displaying is very artistic and I think going to any other random pool builder will probably not get you the results you want. My pool is probably 1/2 the cost of yours but I purposely chose to go with a PB that knew what I wanted when it came to the design. I had another PB offer to do the same design but there is something to be said about the person who has the vision being able to pull it off better than someone who is trying to copy some other person's vision.

For me if you save 10 or 20k by going with a lesser pool builder you'll be sorry because you'll notice things that weren't done right since the person doing the cheaper bid doesn't really know the overall picture. It sounds to me for what I am seeing that the pool isn't out of the ballpark price wise.

And with that said there is some cost to hiring out for something that artistic. If I want my wall painted white I can go to anyone. If I want someone with a flare for design to come in and make my house look like a designer designed it I am going to pay a lot more. I know on my last house I paid someone extra to come up with a design plan and used that to pick materials etc... when it was built. When I went to sell my house I got a top dollar offer in 1 day. I think the $2k I paid for the designer paid for itself multiple times over.

The other big advantage of going with the PB that already did a similar pool, he knows the costs, he knows his profits,, so very likely you (and he/she) won't have any surprises. Project should go like clock work and pool builds don't always go that way.

 

[grottoguy]

naw bro, around here it's about $3K profit on a $50K pool

A $3,000 profit on a $50,000 pool is not beleivebale. That would translate to a $60,000 profit on 20 pools of $50,000 each. I dont believe that for a second.

 

[AJB1234]

Honestly if I was wanting a pool like that I would go with the builder you know built the example pool. The pool you are displaying is very artistic and I think going to any other random pool builder will probably not get you the results you want. My pool is probably 1/2 the cost of yours but I purposely chose to go with a PB that knew what I wanted when it came to the design. I had another PB offer to do the same design but there is something to be said about the person who has the vision being able to pull it off better than someone who is trying to copy some other person's vision.

For me if you save 10 or 20k by going with a lesser pool builder you'll be sorry because you'll notice things that weren't done right since the person doing the cheaper bid doesn't really know the overall picture. It sounds to me for what I am seeing that the pool isn't out of the ballpark price wise.

And with that said there is some cost to hiring out for something that artistic. If I want my wall painted white I can go to anyone. If I want someone with a flare for design to come in and make my house look like a designer designed it I am going to pay a lot more. I know on my last house I paid someone extra to come up with a design plan and used that to pick materials etc... when it was built. When I went to sell my house I got a top dollar offer in 1 day. I think the $2k I paid for the designer paid for itself multiple times over.

Very helpful, thank you. We are planning to go with the builder that designed the pool but wanted to make sure the quote is reasonable. I was hoping to avoid having another pool company provide a detailed quote when we are not likely to use them but based on the suggestions in this forum, perhaps I should still go that route. Glad to hear the quote seems reasonable for the build. I do want to note that the acrylic spa is an additional $30k to the $140k price so now we are at $170k for the pool/spa. I'm told there is only $1800 in profit on the $30k acrylic spa (another company provides material and installs). Thanks for helping out!

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You might want to look into all the maintenance of an infinity edge pool. I believe you will want some type of automated acid delivery system to keep the pH inline. With an infinity edge, raised spa, and SWG pool in So Cal you are going to use a lot of acid.

With that pool design there will be a lot of hand cleaning in that pool. No automated cleaner will get those raised areas. I would make sure those areas have enough returns to help keep them clean as possible.

Will look into this... good suggestions, thanks.

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Agreed, IMHO, there is no way he only hasonly 10% profit. His profit has to be more like 30% or maybe more, otherwise he would not be in business and on a large project they need even more profit margin built in to deal with the unknown. The larger the project, the higher the risk.

I also found this difficult to believe. The salesperson is a pastor and met the builder at church. I'm told the builder uses most of the profits to go on overseas mission trips to help the less fortunate. Definitely a good line for a salesperson but I still have no reason to disbelieve what I am hearing. I also was told they really want this project as they want to be known as the go to source for these acrylic installations.

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It also depends on how "profit" is calculated. It might be after 100% of all expenses, including All employee pay, overhead, materials, subcontractors, taxes, commissions, etc so that there is an extra $30,000 free and clear in the bank.

I think this is correct.

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That sounds like our style... we are all about doing it ourselves and have it done right! Thank you!

 

[Frank Rizzo]

My experience is that pool builders in Southern California are making at a minimum 30% on all their builds. Thats not the point - if this builder can do this high end work and survive in Newport, I don't think you will have any problems.

 

[bdavis466]

There should be no concern over the pool builder's profit. That is how he runs his business and only he knows what needs to made on a job to cover expenses.

The pool that you are planning on building is far from common and would require a level of expertise that very few builders would be capable of producing. The price has less to do with your location and more to do with what you are asking to have built.

I don't feel the price is out of reason but as many others have suggested, the only way to know is multiple bids.

 

[ping]

This bid seems to be an intro bid to me and you need to get this bid organized a bit more. Get rid of all the base numbers and have them list every piece of equipment and finishes that you want with the final price. A high end pool like this should have color LED lights as standard, a high end plaster included, not quoted with standard white plaster, etc.

They should make more than $15,000 on a build such as this, there are too many things that could go wrong that would make this pool's cost soar. Don't be surprised if you try to get more bids and no one will touch it.

 

[chiefwej]

Wow, if I had $140k budget for a pool I would buy myself a new car, take a very, very nice vacation, then build a nice pool with the money I had left.

 

[Isaac-1]

Ping brings up a good point, you need everything spelled out in detail on the bid, and on the contract when it gets to be that time. This means all equipment with make and model, not just 2HP Pentair pump, instead Pentair Intelliflow model VSR 011018 variable speed pump or whatever model you get. The same goes for everything else, filter, plaster finish, name and style of type of stone, etc.

Here is a paraphrasing of a real world example of problems that can come up, I don't recall the outcome of this first example, but a few months ago we had there was a member with a new pool build in Texas, they had opted for travertine decking around the pool (travertine is much cooler than concrete on bare feet), for some reason the sub contractor that was installing the travertine installed what is normally more expensive polished travertine instead of the rougher brushed finish travertine the pool owner had expected and discussed with the pool builder, as a result the surface was extremely slippery when wet, unfortunately the contract simply read X sq feet of travertine decking, and did not specify finish, which potentially shifted any liability away from the pool builder, and perhaps shifting the cost to tear out and redo to the pool owner.

In the past we have also seen many problems come up with gunite pools not being built to their specified depth, usually due to excess gunite being used in a pool that was dug to the specified depth making the pool shallower than desired. Therefore it is important to specify exact, minimum or a an accepted range of dimensions including depth, and if that depth is to the edge or the water line along with remedy requirement if not built to contract. In the past we have seen examples of this where a pool was specified with a 3.5 ft minimum depth to water line and built with 3 ft depth, then the pool builder was only willing to give something like a 10% discount on the pool cost due to variance, which may seem fine to the pool builder but not to the pool owner who had 36 inch long arms and wanted to swim laps without scraping his knuckles.

 

[1herm4]

I agree with an itemized contract. Specific equipment,tiles,depths,finishes etc. i paid for a tile upgrade because what was on the contract wasn't specific and my options for tile where ugly.

 

[badcrc]

I think a 20-30 percent profit is reasonable. I really don't like the design. It looks like a lot of wasted space. I would ask for a more efficient use of space and a redesign.

A lot of your numbers like decking etc look reasonable. Drains too but how are you at 450??? Don't you have tie ins on the side of house?

 

[AJB1234]

There should be no concern over the pool builder's profit. That is how he runs his business and only he knows what needs to made on a job to cover expenses.

The pool that you are planning on building is far from common and would require a level of expertise that very few builders would be capable of producing. The price has less to do with your location and more to do with what you are asking to have built.

I don't feel the price is out of reason but as many others have suggested, the only way to know is multiple bids.

That's good to hear, thanks. I am surprised and am struggling with the extra $40k for the acrylic spa (told $30k more than if it was a more typical high end spa). I definitely want the builder to make a profit and just want to be sure that the prices are fair. Thank you for your help.