Help. First time pool owner in Nassau County, NY.

[Pool Amateur]

Ta 50-90 is good, I find that at TA-70, keeps my ph at 7.5. when it falls lower my ph tends to drift down, my fill water i believe was 30-40 when i tested it, not sure about rain water.

Is you spider gasket integrated into valve or can you just replace it with spider gasket?

I read that once you add stabilizer, you shouldn't Backwash for at least 1 week. Is this correct? I guess this means I shouldn't vacuum to waste either? Any recommendations on how to get rid of some stabilizer and sand stuck in the deep end?

Vacuum to filter, the stabilizer will stick in filter and dissolve. hopefully you pressure will not indicate that you need a backwash during that time. In another thread Dom (who I have read before and seems to be pretty knowledgeable) said CYA in sock hung in front of return should read in 2 days, but I wouldn't have expected to see it in bottom.

 

[Pool Amateur]

Hey, when is or was the birthday party?

 

[George D]

Had a lot of non pool related stuff to do today so no progress on MPV. Will find out on Monday.

So with the TA at 70 the PH stays at 7.5? Shoud I leave mine where it is? TA-60. PH-7.4.
The sock had a small hole in it so some granules fell to the bottom. I'll try Vacuum to Filter. Seems like the vacuum with the water hose had trouble picking up sand. Maybe it's too fine. The 4 ft connection hose came in. I will connect the leaf cannister and place a pool sock so most of the stuff will go in there.

The slime bags came in. They're pretty big. Once the clamps and fittings arrive I just need to connect them to the returns? and the slime bags will not interfere with the recirculation of the chemicals through the returns?


The party has been moved to Monday the 26th.

 

[Pool Amateur]

Once the clamps and fittings arrive I just need to connect them to the returns? and the slime bags will not interfere with the re circulation of the chemicals through the returns?

Yes hook to returns, As I said before I use 1 (I have 2 returns), so if you use 2 (and have 3 returns) I think all is good. Check pump pressure before attaching and after attaching to ensure the same pressure. Float the ping pong ball, or watch a leaf to double check circulation, but I could not see any difference. Leave it on for today, take it off before party, if you were collecting dirt and want to get a little more sparkle put on the water for another day put it back on after party, I use it 1 day a week or every other week depending on what I see. If you ever loose the sparkle, put it on and when cleaning inspect color closely, if you see hint of green, SLAM, probably be done SLAM 1-2 days. This is 1 of the reasons why I like it over DE to get that extra fine filtration.

Should I leave mine where it is? TA-60. PH-7.4

I would and see what happens then can fine tune if needed.

 

[George D]

Hi Swampwoman,
Can you recommend the stain cleaner that works best after Alum Floc is added?

 

[Swampwoman]

Not till I hear about the birthday party/swim we were all working for


There are a couple of stain removal options. Did you do the tests with a puck and crushes up vitamin C yet? (Each separately)

Why don't you post another pic of the pool again as it is now so we can see the staining, and post up a complete set of tests, including results from vit C test. Read through the basic metals article linked in my signature, and once we have all the info, we can determine best approach.

 

[George D]

The birthday party was nothing but fun for everyone. Thanks. The kids had a blast and used the pool until 10:30.

I did the test with the trichlor puck, dropping it in the deep and then the shallow end. The deep end pic is with the puck at the bottom. The puck removed the stain in the deep end. From what the link indicates, the stain is organic and based on the instructions, seems easier to get rid of.
The puck did not remove the stain in the shallow end after 2 hours. Is this enough time? Shoud I leave the puck there overnight to make sure?

I have the Love Buffs chewable vitamin C tablets. They are orange in color. Is this sufficient for the Vitamin C test?

Test results as of 6PM.
FC-4. I will add 1 gallon of 12.5% chlorine.
CC-.5
I have full test results from 3 days ago.
PH-7.4
TA-60
CYA- A bit below 30. I added some stabilizer in a sock suspended near the deep teturn.

Do you want new results for those tests?

 

[George D]

I moved the puck from the stain in the shallow end and it looks like part of the stain has been removed. I placed the puck in an another part of the shallow area. There is one more stain in the deep end that I'll get to tomorrow.

 

[Swampwoman]

Okay, so it sounds mostly organic, meaning FC and sun should start lightening it. If you do some careful swabbing with a puck for a few days and maybe have your FC a few points higher that should help.

For areas where the stains don't seem to lighten or lift, the vit c you have is fine to crush up and test.

Delighted to hear your D had a lovely birthday swim

 

[George D]

I will try the Vitamin C test tomorrow and report back with results. So far, brushing has slightly removed the stains in areas that seem to have removed the stains after placing the puck over them. I will raise my FC to near shock levels and try again.

 

[Swampwoman]

Yes, please keep us posted.

After the kind of recovery you've just gone through, its possible that your stains are a combination of organics and metal. But if you end up doing a stain treatment meant for metals, you'll need to keep FC lower, so now is the time to see if higher FC helps

 

[George D]

Ok. I turned the gas heater on and green water was coming out of the returns.
It is a Laars Lite Teledyne. The temperature controls have no numbers, just a dial with min to max. I turned it off after about 5 minutes.
Any ideas why green water was coming out of the returns?

 

[Swampwoman]

What kind of green, clear green, cloudy green?

We established previously I think that you did not have a bypass, so water should have been running through it all along.

Before you were dialed in on TFP spec levels, you were dosing pretty high on chlorine. That old heater's copper exchanger might be in pretty rough shape.

Can you post a complete set of readings? I know you were going to run the FC a bit higher to see if it helped the organic stains lift.

If by turning the heater on its now flushing wear layers from the exchanger, I'm going to suggest we consider a startup does of Metal Magic sequestrant for two reasons -- first it may help protect the exchanger and secondly it will help prevent further staining if there's copper leaching from the exchanger. It may also work to help lift any part of the stains that are metallic.

You can get it here, and you'd likely need 3 bottles for your size of pool. And if you're getting it anyway, I'll also post a link to another stain test you can do with it.

https://www.poolgeek.com/products/proteam-metal-magic-1-qt

http://www.proteampoolcare.com/images/uploads/MetalMagicSpongeTest.pdf

 

[George D]

The green coming out of the returns looked cloudy.
The results as of yesterday, about 3 hours before I turned the heater on.
FC-7
CC-.5
PH-7.6
TA-60
CYA-40

Yes, Thank you, I will purchase the sequestrant. Even though TFP recommends TA to be 50-90, does the TA need to be higher if you have a heater? around 100?

 

[Swampwoman]

My heaters been fine at lower TA, but if your more comfortable a bit higher, that's your call.

I didn't see a ch (calcium) reading. With sequestrant use, its usually recommended by the sequestrant mfgs to have about 200 ppm ch even in a vinyl pool as it is supposed to help the sequestrant carry out.

 

[George D]

Last time I tested the CH was last week. CH-20. So I need to raise it to 200 in order for the sequestrant to work properly? Do I add calcium chloride or something else?
I turned the valve that controls the returns so the deep return could be a little stronger. By doing this, it worked and a semi shallow return also worked better. The 2 returns facing each other in the shallowest part of the pool are still working but a little weaker. Is this ok? There are a total of 6 returns and 5 of them are working well and one is very weak.
Is it more important for the deeper and semi deep returns to have higher pressure in order to get the best circulation?

I tried installing skimmer weir doors so I can turn the pump off at night but they don't stay on for long.

 

[Swampwoman]

I'm going to focus on the part I can, which is your ch. Double check your reading (it seems really low...make sure you're using the correct drop multiplier...eg if you read at 10 mil mark then multiply drops by 25, if you read at 25 mil mark then multiply drops by 10).

If your reading is still 20, then yes, please add ch.

As to your flow, I can't really tell from here...you'll have to observe circulation and use a bit of trial and error, I'm afraid

 

[Pool Amateur]

I turned the valve that controls the returns so the deep return could be a little stronger. By doing this, it worked and a semi shallow return also worked better. The 2 returns facing each other in the shallowest part of the pool are still working but a little weaker. Is this ok? There are a total of 6 returns and 5 of them are working well and one is very weak.
Is it more important for the deeper and semi deep returns to have higher pressure in order to get the best circulation?

I do not have any experience with your exact valve, but a problem I have always had by the way they react or you are using. Like your multi-valve on your filter, I would think these multi-valves (diverters as I would call it in a shower) have detentes for different settings so a detente for a predetermined result (IE. jets only on in shallow, or only on in deep end or both or all off) not turning just past 90 to regulate as much as I think you described. Coming out of the valve you have to have at least 2 exits (probably one for deep end and one for shallow end) jets at the end of the run may have a slightly lower flow than the ones at the beginning but not tremendously less. So this has always been something I do not understand. Maybe someone with experience in these valves can shed more light on this?

 

[George D]

Swampwoman, I ran a new CH test today using 10ml instead of 25ml. After adding the necessary R-0010 and 0011 drops, I added only 1 drop of R-0012 before the sample turned blue. So 1 x 25 = CH-25. I will buy calcium chloride to raise level to 200. How long does it take CH to circulate throughout the pool?

Pool Amateur, yes you are correct. The one valve that controls the returns does have 2 exits and that reaches a total of 6 returns. There is only 1 deep end and 1 semi deep return and 4 shallow. I adjusted the valve so the flow in the deep and semi deep returns are strong, as to provide the maximum circulation. Only one return, in the shallow end is not working but it does work if I adjust it a bit at the expense of a weaker flow in the deep return.

 

[Swampwoman]

I think you'll get the best results from your sequestrant that way, even though normally vinyl pools don't technically need ch. I've only added ch a few times...so I migh be wrong but my recollection is to add in a couple of smaller batches, filter running, and don't bother checking til the next day (technically, I believe is mixes in 6-8 hrs, but just give yourself a day to be sure before adding sequestrant.). There will be instructions on the container.

Use PoolMath to calculate the amount you need. I'd personally avoid going over 200, and might even do a half batch, then test and add the second batch the next day. It may cloud the pool a bit -- just let the filter run until it clears if so.