Help. First time pool owner in Nassau County, NY.

[George D]

I read in one of our threads that CYA may be the cause for the clogged return. I had the CYA suspended in a sock near that return, last week. The advice to unclog was, use a pressure washer. So I unscrewed the eyeball and was about to spray when my back gave out on me. At this time, I am set up on the living room floor where I'll probably be for a few days. Luckily my wife will takeover the pool duties.
I tried the pool vacuum again 2 days ago, using the vac plate and it worked. There was strong suction and I placed some heavy rocks on base of vac plate to keep it from moving. Next time I'll tell my wife to keep the sock in the basket during vacuuming. She just informed me that she removed llots of guk using the leaf rake.
I think at some point in the SLAM process, my chlorine levels may have dropped below shock and I started over. My wife will do the testing and I will post results this evening.
The PSI rreading is about 25.
Thanks.

 

[Catanzaro]

I read in one of our threads that CYA may be the cause for the clogged return.

The return jets are shooting water back into the pool. Probability is that the CYA has not clogged your return. A pressure washer is a good idea, but a good blower is even better. Think about investing in the Cyclone. When my central vac system gets clogged, I use the Cyclone.

Keep excellent records of the SLAM. This way you know if progress is being made.

 

[George D]

My wife did some vacuuming and scooped up a little guk. Returns were slow and pressure gauge increased close to 30 and she Backwashed and Rinsed. Returns were running normal again except for clogged deep return.
She used the Aquacheck strip instead of the k2006. The FC was 20 or higher and the TC was 10 or higher. She also added 4 gallons of 10% liquid chlorine. Pool still green.

 

[Catanzaro]

She used the Aquacheck strip instead of the k2006.

Please use the recommend test kit. My friend, with his green pool, now crystal clear with the TF 100 kit, used a test strip the first day. His CYA was showing 80. His real CYA was almost "zero". Test strips can not be relied upon. The clogged return still puzzles me. Have you checked the control valves, etc. ?

 

[Pool Amateur]

Below is an excerpt from a post by Swampwoman on a similar thread:

There's a simple test I want you to do first given the number of years you've been closed AND the fact that you reported 0FC and 0 CYA. This happened to me with my swamp

The goal is to determine whether or not the pool has been subject to a phenom where a certain type of bacteria converts the cya to ammonia. Ammonia then "fights" the chlorine, making it impossible to hold at a slam level long enough to sanitize the water...until or unless you break the ammonia down. I'd originally hired pool techs to recover my swamp before finding TFP, and they never got the FC to hold But I was able to eventually. In my case, draining would have been dangerous because I have a high water table, vinyl pool, on well and the pool was built in a former catch basin. And it was spring So I didn't really have a sensible choice but to clear the water I had

With the filter running and your ph adjusted to 7.2, do this test and report back...I'll try to check in more today:

Diagnosing:
1. Test CYA level and record result (you've already done this)
2. With pump running, dose FC to Shock (SLAM) per level per Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart, then retest FC after 10 minutes. If FC level drops by more than 50%, then proceed with treatment for ammonia.

Treatment for Ammonia:
1. Begin a SLAM and dose FC up to SLAM level. Do not add additional CYA at this point.
2. Retest FC at 10-minute intervals.
a. If FC loss is greater than 50%, add FC to bring back up to SLAM level and continue retesting FC @ 10-minute intervals.
b. IF FC loss is 50% or less, add FC to bring back up to SLAM level. Go to Step 3.

***At any point in step A if you make several attempts, it might be worthwhile once you have an indication of possible ammonia to get a cheap aquarium ammonia test from pet store to find out just how much you have.

It takes approximately 10 ppm of chlorine to break down 1 ppm of ammonia. If you had a really high ammonia reading, I would instead consider possibly draining instead, refilling, then finishing with a slam -- this approach may also give an opportunity to reduce any metal concentration and possibly take action on the stains at the same time.

May be worth trying to be sure you do not have an ammonia problem that would be cheaper to do water replacement Via the "Tarp method".

Good luck, I was in similar situation 3 years ago.

 

[George D]

Ok, I wll make sure k2006 test is run today. Last week when the skimmer returns weren't working, I turned the valve near the pump from. 3:: position to 6: position. The skimmer lines worked again but the one return in deep end stopped. It‘s the only handle. I turned valve to other positions with no luck.
I will try the ammonia test but I don't think that's the problem since I tested FC levels the day later in afternoons/evenings and the chlorine level tested at shock level. Thanks.

 

[George D]

Did the Chlorine test twice as mentioned earlier. I couldn't do it 10 minutes later, instead 30 minutes later. I used the 5ml to save on reagent. The first FC-28. I Backwashed and Rinsed filter since the returns were weak and they are normal again except for deep end. The 2nd FC-24. I tried doing the CC test but I don't think you can do it with 5ml. I stopped it after adding 8 drops. Was I wrong? I can walk now but I'm still unable to bend down. My wife tried clearing the clog in the deep return using the pressure washer but still not working. I don't see any improvement. My wife added 4 gallons of 10% liquid chlorine yesterday evening. Can there be something other than ammonia preventing the pool from clearing?
If it does not improve by Saturday should I drain 1/2 the pool?

 

[jasnovanorder]

Did the Chlorine test twice as mentioned earlier. I couldn't do it 10 minutes later, instead 30 minutes later. I used the 5ml to save on reagent. The first FC-28. I Backwashed and Rinsed filter since the returns were weak and they are normal again except for deep end. The 2nd FC-24. I tried doing the CC test but I don't think you can do it with 5ml. I stopped it after adding 8 drops. Was I wrong? I can walk now but I'm still unable to bend down. My wife tried clearing the clog in the deep return using the pressure washer but still not working. I don't see any improvement. My wife added 4 gallons of 10% liquid chlorine yesterday evening. Can there be something other than ammonia preventing the pool from clearing?
If it does not improve by Saturday should I drain 1/2 the pool?

Ok I have a couple things. 1 you are saying your FC is 28 and 24 after the last 2 recent tests Is that 56 and 48 drops or 28 and 24 drops? Also I just finished a SLAM last week and had a similar issue you are. Bumped FC up to SLAM level and saw a little improvement and then it stalled for about a week. I went all out and doubled my FC. My SLAM level was 15 so I kept the FC at 30. After that it was almost clear in 3 days. Might be something to think about but I would hold off on going "nuclear" on it for now.

 

[George D]

That is 28 and then 24 drops at 5ml. I'm almost at the 30 level at this point. If adding just 2 additional gallons of liquid chlorine per day will help, maybe that's a good idea. It does appear to have stalled. Today is the 16th day of SLAM.
Thank you for the info.

 

[George D]

8 gallons of 10% liquid chlorine added yesterday evening. Ran the test 1/2 hour ago using 5ml and I stopped after 70 drops. The color remained the same, purple for the last 20 drops. Is something wrong? How can the level increase so much from 8 gallons. Each gallon increases the chlorine level 2.9 ppm, according to the pool calculator, for 35,000 gallons. The pool is still green.
Using 5ml that's 70x1 for FC-70? Yesterday the test showed between FC-24-28. My neighbor diluted 1 lb. of Robars Clarifier in a 3 gallon bucket, about 5 days ago and he added it to different parts of the pool. It's biodegradable. He said it would be easier for the filter to pickup up the larger clumps.
Could this cause a problem during SLAM?

 

[George D]

I read 2 different threads that recommended vacuum to waste but I am not sure of the exact process. One TFP expert recommended to shut off the pump then vacuum to waste. I have vacuumed several times and I Backwashed after I was done. Can someone explain if vacuuming to waste will help and how?
I'm on the 18th day of SLAM and my pool is still green. Please help!

 

[drharris]

I think many of us are at a loss, hoping some of the big guns will come in to help. I've read a lot of these SLAM threads for inspiration last year and I've never seen a situation where the green pool lasted 2 weeks. Given your issues with potential clogs and filtering problems, there's something really wrong here we're not seeing. By now it should be blue and cloudy.

The clarifier was like trying to kill a deer with a BB gun. You have a chemistry issue more than other problems. They can sometimes be helpful near the end of a SLAM to clean up the last bits of stuff, but generally are not recommended because they can gum up the filter.

Vacuuming to waste should be simple - instead of vacuuming to the filter, you set the valve for "Waste" instead. This is helpful if you have gunk on the bottom of the pool. If it's all suspended throughout the water, this may not help much. If you plan to drain any amount of water at all, drain it through the vacuum and main drain - probably that catches the majority of the stuff.

There's a lot of information to distill in this whole thread, so I'm going to ask a few recap questions to help everyone get back on the same page.

1. How much FC loss do you see in any sort of time period (i.e. 28->20FC within 2 hours, etc.) Does it disappear completely within an hour or so?

2. Have you deep cleaned your filter yet? It seems like you've had filtering issues and it was recommended at one point. It could very well be channeled and not doing the proper job. If you have, did you inspect the filter to see if anything was wrong/weird?

3. Have you rechecked your CYA levels to ensure they are where you think they are?

4. Was that FC=70 a false test of some kind? Can you explain your current FC test procedure (don't mean this as an insult, just trying to find any reason things aren't doing what they should be)?

5. How often are you checking FC and adding bleach? How often are you brushing the pool?

6. Did you ever clear up all the clogs, and are all the drains/returns working? Are you sure things are circulating throughout the pool?

 

[George D]

To confirm, I turn the dial of the filter to waste while the pump is working? Do I still connect the vacuum hose to the vac plate that's above the skimmer pipe or do I connect the hose to the pump?

1) I see little chlorine loss from day to day. It is at shock level and I doubled the amount to help the process. To save on the reagent drops, I am testing FC at 5ml x1 instead of 10 ml x .5. An expert suggested this during the SLAM process. I added 8 gallons of 10% liquid chlorine 2 days ago and yesterday the k2006 would not turn colorless after 70 drops at 5ml. I will do another test after the sun moves away from the pool

2) No, I have not deep cleaned the filter. I was advised this can be done after SLAM.\

3)My last CYA test 4 or 5 days ago showed around 30 or a bit below that. I think I'm good here because I read during SLAM it shouldn't be too high.

4) I think #1 covered it.

5) I check the FC level every day and it has been consistently over 15 for about 2 weeks. I was brushing every day until I injured my back on Monday. My daughter brushed yesterday.

6) The return in the deep end of the pool is still not working.

 

[drharris]

To confirm, I turn the dial of the filter to waste while the pump is working? Do I still connect the vacuum hose to the vac plate that's above the skimmer pipe or do I connect the hose to the pump?

First turn pump off, then set to waste and turn it back on. Once it's pumping, you take the vacuum with hose, get the hose connected to the plate, get it all full of water with vacuum down deep, and then put the vac plate over the skimmer basket. Goal is to keep it wet, don't let it take in much air.

1) I see little chlorine loss from day to day. It is at shock level and I doubled the amount to help the process. To save on the reagent drops, I am testing FC at 5ml x1 instead of 10 ml x .5. An expert suggested this during the SLAM process. I added 8 gallons of 10% liquid chlorine 2 days ago and yesterday the k2006 would not turn colorless after 70 drops at 5ml. I will do another test after the sun moves away from the pool

If it is indeed at 70, that's crazy. A pool that green should have massive amounts of FC loss per day. I would not let it stay that high... keep it at SLAM level or slightly above, but this doesn't make sense! And yes, 5mL=1ppm per drop is the right sample size for now. Do you have any CCs?

2) No, I have not deep cleaned the filter. I was advised this can be done after SLAM.

Normally, yes. But given there seem to be some filtering issues here, you might consider doing this. If your filter is easy enough to open up, it may be worth doing, considering you have no way of knowing what you're dealing with here. For all we know there could be no sand in it at all! Probably not that bad, but it could at least be channeled.

3)My last CYA test 4 or 5 days ago showed around 30 or a bit below that. I think I'm good here because I read during SLAM it shouldn't be too high.

That's a good number to be at. You may want to re-measure this at some point during the SLAM, but right now even if it were crazy high your FC numbers are good enough.

5) I check the FC level every day and it has been consistently over 15 for about 2 weeks. I was brushing every day until I injured my back on Monday. My daughter brushed yesterday.

Ideally, you start a SLAM by checking almost hourly until FC holds at an hour, and then move to every 2 hours, then 4, etc. The goal is to keep it at SLAM level as permanently as possible. However... in this case it looks like it's holding pretty well, which doesn't match what's happening visually. I really have no idea here. Ideally brushing/vacuuming would be many times per day too, but obviously that's not possible for you right now, and either way that just helps it go faster - it should still be at least getting blue at this point.

6) The return in the deep end of the pool is still not working.

I think this is what I'd be most worried about... there should be no way for this stuff to get blocked. Is the pipe leading to that return at all easy to get to? I'd say snake it out or something like that, if you've verified the valve is both working and set correctly. There really should be nothing that could block a return so completely, outside of a plug or something.

Honestly, at this point if a filter deep clean didn't show much promise, I'd start draining a bit at a time. Vacuuming to waste could be a big help, just keep an eye on what makes its way into the skimmer/pump baskets and keep it cleaned. Kind of like a drain/refill but targeted on the problem areas.

 

[George D]

Ok. I will vacuum to waste now. Thanks for the advice. The return was working fine. What might have caused it to stop? I turned the valve from 3: position (skimmer lines not working) to 6: position. The skimmer lines working again and the drain also works.
A pool pro advised when I Backwash, to skip the Rinse, turn valve to Filter for 10 seconds and repeat Backwash process. I did this one time. Would this clog one of the returns? It's possible somewhere underground, there is flex PVC and it ruptured. I'll be back with results soon.
I saw a YouTube video where someone added Floc to the green pool and it cleared up in 48 hrs. I think I read in another thread that Floc should not be added? Is that accurate?
Thanks.

 

[George D]

Vacuum to waste for about an hour. I had no idea how much gunk and debris there was in the deeper end of the pool. This must be the reason why my pool is still green. Saw more of the bottom today than at anytime before. The returns were slow about 30 minutes after vacuuming so I Backwashed and Rinsed the filter and were much better, except the one in the deep end.
Tested the chlorine at sunset and the results are back to normal. FC-15. CC-2. After the test, I added 3 gallons of 12.5% and 4 gallons of 10% liquid chlorine. T
More vacuuming tomorrow.

 

[George D]

Anyone here can possibly conclude that the additional gunk and debris in parts of the deep end of the pool will keep the pool green after 3 weeks of SLAM? If that is the case, I'll keep going until it clears. If not, please advise...I'm thinking of alternative methods or maybe just covering the pool and shutting it down.
Wife and I vacuumed to waste and used the leaf rake today. There was a lot less debris today than the past few days.
I can't see the water at all, even the shallow end but I think it's due to constant vacuuming and scooping up debris around the pool. Results of chlorine test yesterday was FC-17.

 

[skimmerswimmer]

You need to have properly working equipment, and religiously follow SLAM procedure to fix a pool in a state like that. I would drain, clean everything out, including your filter, fix the return issue and any other problems you find, then refill and go from there. Trying to SLAM with all the crud still in the bottom with a questionable filter might be a lost cause. Water to fill that pool on Long Island is about $100.

 

[ashtonfitzgerald]

Any organics in the pool will slow the process of green to clear. Keep scooping and vacuuming the deep end, and get all that stuff out.

 

[George D]

Thanks skimmerswimmer but I was advised against fully draining or even draining 50% of the pool. I read that I should never fully drain a pool with a vinyl liner or it may fold or collapse. I may try this as a last ditch effort.
Can a moderator please advise, what I should do? I respect everyone's advice here but it has been conflicting.I was also advised not to deep clean my sand filter. Where are all the pool pros that I have seen in the other threads? My wife has been bugging me to pour algaecide for over a week and I told her not to because the bleach will do the job. But in this case at this time will it help?
Can you help me?
I feel as this is now a lost cause. The worst thing is, my kids are looking forward to swimming in a crystal clear pool.