What size pipe to plumb my pool and spa?

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Re: What size pipe to plumb my pool and spa?

I checked out a couple of the videos on the link you provided. Thank you!

The centrifugal switch plate is cracked, so since the pump repairman I took it to said, "I've been working on pumps for 31 years and I've never seen one like this," I'm trying a JB Weld fix on it. It's a dual start switch on an old MaxFlo Dual Speed. The steel screw that holds the plate on the aluminum casing was fused and broke off so I drilled it out and will have to tap it. Good thing I'm retired and have time to putter:)

Question: If my overflow spa is 25' from the pump room and about the same level, do I need check valve(s) if I bring my diverter valves above spa water level? Is there still siphon action then? Is it better to do that or use a check valve? Thanks
 
Re: What size pipe to plumb my pool and spa?

You only need check valves if the spa water level is going to be above (or below) the pool water level. Otherwise the spa could drain into the pool when the pump is off while in spillover mode.
 
Re: What size pipe to plumb my pool and spa?

The spa water will be about a foot over pool water level but a foot or more below the pad plumbing.
In this case do I still need check valves on spa suction and return lines?
If so can I do without check valves by manually or having automation turn the valves to the spa off when shutting down the pump?
I've heard of people running a vs pump on low 24/7 (except when running the spa or cleaning). It seems like a good idea. How common is that? Would that eliminate the need for back flow valves? (If the pad plumbing is above water level, I wouldn't need them for maintenance.)
 
Re: What size pipe to plumb my pool and spa?

Usually, just the return line is enough to prevent siphoning.

24/7 is a waste in my opinion. Most people try to operate the pump as little as possible.
 
Re: What size pipe to plumb my pool and spa?

if I need to reduce from a 3" pipe to a intelliflow or sta rite pump with a 2" input with a 2 1/2 - 3" diverted valve in between, what's the best way? The 3" pipe in the ground needs to 90, come vertical about 2 ft, 90 into the valve and then go level to the pump input. I thought of reducing to 2 1/2 about a foot before the first 90 and reducing from 2 1/2 to 2 a foot before the pump. What's the best way?
 
Re: What size pipe to plumb my pool and spa?

Whatever is the easiest. Transitioning at the valve saves on bushings since you can use a coupler for the 3" and then 2 1/2 at the output.
 
Re: What size pipe to plumb my pool and spa?

Thank you, James and Mark.

I have a Pentair MiniMax heater with 2" bulkhead adapters. I want to come out the output with a 90 and go about 18" to a 2 1/2 - 3" diverter valve. Can I fit an adapter bushing out of the bulkhead, going from 2 to 2 1/2, so the 90 and pipe into the valve are 2 1/2, or will this cause too much water through the heater, or cavitation, or will it be fine? Thanks.
PS: From the pump through the filter to the heater is all 2". Before the pump is all 2 1/2 or 3.
 

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Re: What size pipe to plumb my pool and spa?

If the flap opens up, then that's OK. It can open down because the spring will close it, but it's better not to rely on the spring. In general I would avoid a downward opening flap.
 
Re: What size pipe to plumb my pool and spa?

Still wondering if people with a spill over spa find it workable to just turn the return diverter to spa off after pump shut down instead of installing a check valve in the spa return line.? I can put one in no problem but just wondering if it's necessary.
New question:
I am redoing my whole pad, buying a new pump, swg, and automation, but keeping for now, my Hayward 4800 and Minimax 200.

IMG_6333.jpg

Here is a temporary set-up to give you the idea where i want to put my IC40 or 60. I want to put it in the pipe that is propped up in front of the heater. That pipe will 90 into a 2 1/2" pipe in the right hand trench. The pipe in the right trench is just there temporarily to give you the idea. (The pump is also there to stand in visually for a new one.) The pipe coming out of the heater to the partially covered diverter is 2" but can be changed to 2 1/2", which brings me to my question.

I know Pentair requests a foot of straight pipe on both sides of an Intellichlor but if I only have 8" on both sides will using 2 1/2" pipe on both sides of it, rather than 2" reduce turbulence?


Coming out of the heater is a 90 then about 3 ft to the diverter, then the cross piece is 28" to the next 90 into the ground. It's in the 28" going across, in front of the heater, that I want to put the IC40.

The filter, heater and even the Intelliflo pump I might buy, if I go Pentair, all have 2" ins and outs. The diverter is a 2 1/2 - 3" so is it best to use a bushing to expand at the 2" heater out to 2 1/2" and take it all the way to the IC and reduce to 2" at the coupling going into it, and expand back to 2 1/2" at the coupling going out?

Would reducing to 2" then expanding back to 2 1/2 at the IC couplings negate the water flow benefits of the 2 1/2"?

Would it keep it from working properly because of too much water flow?

Is there any difference between the IC40 and IC 60 in this regard?

I prefer to use 2 1/2" between equipment if it reduces head loss. Two and a half might be overkill for my present system but "be prepared" is the Boy Scout moto.

Feel free to give input and suggestions. By the way, I have a 3" suction line from the spa and 2 1/2" from the pool. Thanks!

PS: I am taking a suggestion I got on this site to put the swg in the pool line rather than before the diverter to keep calcium chips out of the spa.
 
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Re: What size pipe to plumb my pool and spa?

Still wondering if people with a spill over spa find it workable to just turn the return diverter to spa off after pump shut down instead of installing a check valve in the spa return line.? I can put one in no problem but just wondering if it's necessary.
Click to expand...
Were you planning to turn the valve manually every time you turn on and off the spa? Even if automatic, it takes time to close so some water will drain but I don't think most controllers will automatically do this. What is your objection with a check valve for the spa?


I know Pentair requests a foot of straight pipe on both sides of an Intellichlor but if I only have 8" on both sides will using 2 1/2" pipe on both sides of it, rather than 2" reduce turbulence?
Click to expand...
This may be for the flow detection. You might want to ask Pentair if that could be an issue.

Would reducing to 2" then expanding back to 2 1/2 at the IC couplings negate the water flow benefits of the 2 1/2"?
Click to expand...
No.

PS: I am taking a suggestion I got on this site to put the swg in the pool line rather than before the diverter to keep calcium chips out of the spa.
Click to expand...
You should only get calcium flakes IF there is a lot of calcium on the cell AND the cell switches polarity. The first isn't an issue if you keep your water balanced and the second shouldn't occur during spa mode given the amount of time you are in the spa. So I would think this would be a very rare problem if ever. I have my cell before the valve and use the SWG in spa mode and have never noticed any flakes but I haven't noticed them in the pool either except when I waited too long to clean the cell. If you see them, you are not cleaning the cell and not keeping the water balanced.

Are you getting a controller with the SWG or will it be stand alone? Most controllers allow for different SWG settings for pool and spa.
 
Re: What size pipe to plumb my pool and spa?

Thanks, Mark.

I was planning on having the automation do it but if it won't, it won't. I was thinking of avoiding the check valve so save room but I discovered they have 90 degree check valves so it's not a worry now. Also, I wanted to avoid anything unnecessary that reduces flow but that seems fairly insignificant.

I'll give Pentair a call and let you know what they say about the 8"s of 2 1/2" pipe on both sides of the IC.

Good to know the 2 1/2 won't be wasted around the IC.

I won't worry about the calcium flakes because after all this work I'll be on top of the chemistry! It would be prettier and more convenient to put the swg within the 3 feet coming out from the heater. What do you think?

I would be getting an EasyTouch with the swg controller within if I went Pentair, but I'm open to other suggestions. Who makes Aqualogic and how does it work for you?

Thank you so much!
 
Re: What size pipe to plumb my pool and spa?

You will want to match the controller manufacture with the VS pump manufacture to maximize the programming feature sets. The AquaLogic is an older, now obsolete, version of Hayward's controller. They have many others now that have many more features, including SWG cell support, so check the web site. But again, if you go this route, you might want to consider the EcoStar VS or TriStar VS.

Pool Automation | In Ground Pool Automation - Hayward Pool Products
 
Re: What size pipe to plumb my pool and spa?

I did call Pentair and talked to a tech, Joey, who said that a check valve is truly necessary between the heater and the IC 40. I told him your theory that that idea was just left over from the past when people used tablets that continued to dissolve after the pump was off and that the concentration away from the electrodes wasn't much but he was adamant. He said he sees cases there commonly where the heaters were eaten by the chlorine back up because no check valve was installed.

On the 2 1/2" pipe reducing the need for at least a foot of straight pipe on both sides of the IC, he said it didn't make a difference. Even though I said I'd seen installations where people didn't follow that, he still stuck to his guns and said be creative. He confessed that plumbing wasn't his forte though. He wished me a peaceful day as we hung up.

I peacefully went back to the pad and the universe revealed unto me a better way....

by coming straight out of the heater 18" to a 90 check valve, to another 18" to the IC, then about a foot to the diverter. A righteous and holy path, following the book. No more pipe in front of the heater which was pretty ugly, as you could see.

I called Joey back and told him my solution of using a 90 check valve and he said he didn't even know about them, and, "You learn something new everyday." I replied that I just learned about them yesterday:) I've been learning a lot of new things everyday with this project. When I plumb this masterpiece I'll post a pic.

Have a peaceful night.
 
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