New Northeastern Pa Build
- Thread starter jimim
- Start date
Morning everyone.
I'm looking for a game plan from the pro's here. Especially Kim, Suz, and Pooldv since you have been steering me in the right direction thus far.
There is a lot going on here over the next few weeks so here is the whole story.
Next Thursday is the 3 week mark. Diamond Brite said 2-4 weeks for break in. My pool builder is fine with what I want to do as follow.
1. I want to stop my break in procedure and get my levels to where you guys feel they should be. I want to base this on the plan that after august 20th I will be adding the salt system.
2. The reason it is the end of aug and not sooner is because I'm going away for 10 days on August 10th.
3. So my question first is what should I be getting my levels to in prep for the salt?
4. right now we are keeping numbers at that following:
FC: no higher than 4
TA: it is at 90 at the beginning of this week
CH: was 300 at beginning of week
PH: It seems that after a 12 hr period it will rise to 7.8 the highest. It comes back down to 7.2 easily with acid.
csi: has been in range
5. so next thursday I want to do what I need to prep for salt.
6. the other wrench in the plan is me leaving 7 days after next thursday.
7. my buddy and his girlfriend will be maintaining the ph and FC while I'm away. I don't plan on having them test for CH or TA. They are doing this favor for me so I want it easy.
8. my plan for them was: PH they will do the drop test. I will leave them acid numbers to drop based on their test. I will have them error on the side of adding a bit less?????? so they don't drop me down too far?????? FC I am having them use strips I got. I say strips cause the yellow drop test is horrible i feel. at least wit the strips they can look. if they see zero color they need to add quick cause i bottomed out. which should not happen! as long as they have a little color and the purple color the range is in should get them safe enough to error on the side of adding a bit extra????????? better to go higher than bottom out? we both looked at the strips the other day and they understand the idea that we can not ever ever hit zero or below 1. wit the strips they can easily do this.
9. so what do you all think. seriously! the tests above need to be done this way i feel. they don't feel comfortable spinning for FC. they are busy. i feel i'm asking a lot having them come 2xday but they have to cause of the FC and ph shifts still
10. so the points that need to be answered: 1. are my thoughts on my testing and dosing good for them? 2. what should i get my levels to next thursday in prep to go away and salt for when i get back?
sorry if that is a lot and hard to follow! please please hit me back with questions and concerns!
jim
I'm looking for a game plan from the pro's here. Especially Kim, Suz, and Pooldv since you have been steering me in the right direction thus far.
There is a lot going on here over the next few weeks so here is the whole story.
Next Thursday is the 3 week mark. Diamond Brite said 2-4 weeks for break in. My pool builder is fine with what I want to do as follow.
1. I want to stop my break in procedure and get my levels to where you guys feel they should be. I want to base this on the plan that after august 20th I will be adding the salt system.
2. The reason it is the end of aug and not sooner is because I'm going away for 10 days on August 10th.
3. So my question first is what should I be getting my levels to in prep for the salt?
4. right now we are keeping numbers at that following:
FC: no higher than 4
TA: it is at 90 at the beginning of this week
CH: was 300 at beginning of week
PH: It seems that after a 12 hr period it will rise to 7.8 the highest. It comes back down to 7.2 easily with acid.
csi: has been in range
5. so next thursday I want to do what I need to prep for salt.
6. the other wrench in the plan is me leaving 7 days after next thursday.
7. my buddy and his girlfriend will be maintaining the ph and FC while I'm away. I don't plan on having them test for CH or TA. They are doing this favor for me so I want it easy.
8. my plan for them was: PH they will do the drop test. I will leave them acid numbers to drop based on their test. I will have them error on the side of adding a bit less?????? so they don't drop me down too far?????? FC I am having them use strips I got. I say strips cause the yellow drop test is horrible i feel. at least wit the strips they can look. if they see zero color they need to add quick cause i bottomed out. which should not happen! as long as they have a little color and the purple color the range is in should get them safe enough to error on the side of adding a bit extra????????? better to go higher than bottom out? we both looked at the strips the other day and they understand the idea that we can not ever ever hit zero or below 1. wit the strips they can easily do this.
9. so what do you all think. seriously! the tests above need to be done this way i feel. they don't feel comfortable spinning for FC. they are busy. i feel i'm asking a lot having them come 2xday but they have to cause of the FC and ph shifts still
10. so the points that need to be answered: 1. are my thoughts on my testing and dosing good for them? 2. what should i get my levels to next thursday in prep to go away and salt for when i get back?
sorry if that is a lot and hard to follow! please please hit me back with questions and concerns!
jim
For right now the only thing I would change is to bring your TA down to 80 and see if that helps your PH at all. Here is the link for that:
Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity
As for anything else, trip and friends coming 2xday, I would get a puck floater (do you have a puck holder on your equipment?) and use pucks while you are gone! This will do two things-add FC and CYA! Your CYA needs to come up for when you start your SWG so it is a win-win! This should make it where friends only have to come once a day.
Kim
Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity
As for anything else, trip and friends coming 2xday, I would get a puck floater (do you have a puck holder on your equipment?) and use pucks while you are gone! This will do two things-add FC and CYA! Your CYA needs to come up for when you start your SWG so it is a win-win! This should make it where friends only have to come once a day.
Kim
And Kim's in for the score! That's a great idea to use the pucks. That would be much easier for your friends to only do testing once a day.
What is your CYA now? You can go ahead and raise your FC (check the chart). I'm more conservative, so I'd probably wait for August 3rd. With you back at work now, it may be easier for you to go ahead and do it now. But definitely use a higher FC for your friends. Be sure to keep the cya/FC ratio.
#8: you cannot use 1 as your bottom number for the FC because you do have CYA in the pool. Right before you leave, get the current CYA level. Use the chart to determine the minimum FC.
I haven't used pucks on my own, so I don't know how to guide you on those. My question - will you need a plan for your friends on how to supplement the pucks with bleach?
I'll look at things in more detail after I get my day rolling and then get back to you.
Great job on your questions and explanations!
Suz
What is your CYA now? You can go ahead and raise your FC (check the chart). I'm more conservative, so I'd probably wait for August 3rd. With you back at work now, it may be easier for you to go ahead and do it now. But definitely use a higher FC for your friends. Be sure to keep the cya/FC ratio.
#8: you cannot use 1 as your bottom number for the FC because you do have CYA in the pool. Right before you leave, get the current CYA level. Use the chart to determine the minimum FC.
I haven't used pucks on my own, so I don't know how to guide you on those. My question - will you need a plan for your friends on how to supplement the pucks with bleach?
I'll look at things in more detail after I get my day rolling and then get back to you.
Great job on your questions and explanations!
Suz
ok so for next week Thursday let's say I need to get my ta down to 80. I will get a cya level and now use the higher end of the range for the target fc level.
So I have this straight. I look at my cya level. I use the higher of the range for my target. I know pooldv says that a lot. I like that idea too. I can't go below my min. If I go below my min does that mean algea growth? Or is algea growth always below 1 into zero range?
I will touch on the trip plan once I have this straight.
But for next next week all I'm doing is lower ta and using new fc level based on cya.
dont take my cya up next week though. Let the pucks do the work while gone away? My cya should be about 35 to 40 when I test by end of week cause I added that little bit this weekend remember to make sure I was in range for diamond brite
do I have all his correct so far?
So I have this straight. I look at my cya level. I use the higher of the range for my target. I know pooldv says that a lot. I like that idea too. I can't go below my min. If I go below my min does that mean algea growth? Or is algea growth always below 1 into zero range?
I will touch on the trip plan once I have this straight.
But for next next week all I'm doing is lower ta and using new fc level based on cya.
dont take my cya up next week though. Let the pucks do the work while gone away? My cya should be about 35 to 40 when I test by end of week cause I added that little bit this weekend remember to make sure I was in range for diamond brite
do I have all his correct so far?
YES!!!! to what you plan. You understand very well and have a solid plan.
"If I go below my min does that mean algea growth? Or is algea growth always below 1 into zero range?" Algae growth is when you go below your FC level for your CYA level. The CYA/FC ratio is very important. If your FC min is 3 for your CYA level then you are flirting with algae if you let your FC level go below 3 so do what you can do to keep it from going below your min amount for your current CYA>
Kim
"If I go below my min does that mean algea growth? Or is algea growth always below 1 into zero range?" Algae growth is when you go below your FC level for your CYA level. The CYA/FC ratio is very important. If your FC min is 3 for your CYA level then you are flirting with algae if you let your FC level go below 3 so do what you can do to keep it from going below your min amount for your current CYA>
Kim
I would let TA drop as low as 60. Maybe not actively try to get there now, all though that would be fine. pH life will be better with TA at 60.
For pH, lower it to 7.2 and leave it alone until you get back. For FC, raise FC up to shock level for your CYA, [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]. Have them add 2-3 ppm of bleach every day or 5-6 every other day. Whatever your normal usage is. And don't have them test at all. I'm all for easy, thank me later.
Here is what you want when you move to salt, Pool School - Water Balance for SWGs
For pH, lower it to 7.2 and leave it alone until you get back. For FC, raise FC up to shock level for your CYA, [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]. Have them add 2-3 ppm of bleach every day or 5-6 every other day. Whatever your normal usage is. And don't have them test at all. I'm all for easy, thank me later.
Here is what you want when you move to salt, Pool School - Water Balance for SWGs
I would let TA drop as low as 60. Maybe not actively try to get there now, all though that would be fine. pH life will be better with TA at 60.
For pH, lower it to 7.2 and leave it alone until you get back. For FC, raise FC up to shock level for your CYA, [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]. Have them add 2-3 ppm of bleach every day or 5-6 every other day. Whatever your normal usage is. And don't have them test at all. I'm all for easy, thank me later.
Here is what you want when you move to salt, Pool School - Water Balance for SWGs
All rightie now!!! My kind of guy - "all for easy". I am learning soooo much!
Thanks,
Suz :
:I lower my ph to 7.4 every night and it's 7.8 by morning. If I lower it to 7.2 within 24 hrs it will be out of whack. I don't see how they won't have to add acid? You lost me on that part.
So if I bring it up to shock level it won't hurt the plaster at all? So I can go outside that range for the chart?
thanks!
So if I bring it up to shock level it won't hurt the plaster at all? So I can go outside that range for the chart?
thanks!
I can't answer your question, but the pucks will add some acid (I'm not sure how much) and CYA.
Pool Math to the rescue! Look down towards the bottom for this:
Effects of adding chemicals
Adding [?oz] of [use the drop down to find what you are adding] will [this box will tell you what this or that will do to the levels!]
Note: pH calculations are not exact. These numbers are only suggestive of the relative magnitude of the pH change you can expect. Small changes, +-0.4, with pH between 7.2-7.8, TA around 80-120, and Borate near zero will be approximately correct. The further you go from those ranges the less these pH changes will correspond to reality.
This one of the neatest things to play with to me. Shows how you can tweak your numbers with this and that.
Does this help?
Kim
Effects of adding chemicals
Adding [?oz] of [use the drop down to find what you are adding] will [this box will tell you what this or that will do to the levels!]
Note: pH calculations are not exact. These numbers are only suggestive of the relative magnitude of the pH change you can expect. Small changes, +-0.4, with pH between 7.2-7.8, TA around 80-120, and Borate near zero will be approximately correct. The further you go from those ranges the less these pH changes will correspond to reality.
This one of the neatest things to play with to me. Shows how you can tweak your numbers with this and that.
Does this help?
Kim
Did they acid wash the quartz the day after they plastered the pool? Assuming yes, the pool will be fine to raise FC up to shock level after 3 weeks.
That is an amazing amount of pH rise. All the more reason to lower TA. Lower your pH to 7.2, or even 7.0 a few timees, when pH gets to 7.8 as often as you can to get TA down. Lowering TA to 60ish will significantly slow pH rise. Let's see how that does between now and early next week.
Yes, pucks will add acid and lower the pH and TA.
That is an amazing amount of pH rise. All the more reason to lower TA. Lower your pH to 7.2, or even 7.0 a few timees, when pH gets to 7.8 as often as you can to get TA down. Lowering TA to 60ish will significantly slow pH rise. Let's see how that does between now and early next week.
Yes, pucks will add acid and lower the pH and TA.
they acid washed but it was watered down i'm assuming cause saw them mix a bucket with acid and water right after they finished. we filled right then and there per the plaster company.
last night i tested ph at 8. it was 7.4. this morning at 7 it was 7.8 again
it raised like that every 12 hrs pretty much.
i'll go get a PH and TA reading now.
jim
- - - Updated - - -
thanks kim!
i'll check this out in a bit!
thanks!
jim
Pool Math to the rescue! Look down towards the bottom for this:
Effects of adding chemicals
Adding [?oz] of [use the drop down to find what you are adding] will [this box will tell you what this or that will do to the levels!]
Note: pH calculations are not exact. These numbers are only suggestive of the relative magnitude of the pH change you can expect. Small changes, +-0.4, with pH between 7.2-7.8, TA around 80-120, and Borate near zero will be approximately correct. The further you go from those ranges the less these pH changes will correspond to reality.
This one of the neatest things to play with to me. Shows how you can tweak your numbers with this and that.
Does this help?
Kim
ok i just did my full tests. I did them twice actually cause I didn't believe my results after just 4 days ago.
temp: 77
CH: 276
TA: 60 !!!! already there now
FC: 3
PH: 7.5
CSI: -0.35
So now my CSI is out of whack. If I lower my PH to 7.2 it becomes -0.63 at 7.4 it is -0.44
So what is my game plan. Should I keep my pH at 7.4 like the breakin process for diamond brite says or should I still take it down? My TA is where you want me to be.
So should I be concerned now cause of my CSI being off?
I didn't add anything yet.
jim
temp: 77
CH: 276
TA: 60 !!!! already there now
FC: 3
PH: 7.5
CSI: -0.35
So now my CSI is out of whack. If I lower my PH to 7.2 it becomes -0.63 at 7.4 it is -0.44
So what is my game plan. Should I keep my pH at 7.4 like the breakin process for diamond brite says or should I still take it down? My TA is where you want me to be.
So should I be concerned now cause of my CSI being off?
I didn't add anything yet.
jim
CSI being a little low for a short while is not a problem. And really it isn't a problem until it is -0.6. I would lower it to 7.2 and see how long it takes to rise back to 7.8 just so you'll know. Then we can make a plan for vaca.
ok cool. I didn't want to do anything till u guys got back to me. It was set to 7.4 for tonight, but in the am I'll do that first thing before brushing.
Thanks man! I appreciate it very much. Tonight when I tested and added chlorine and acid my water temp was up and it put me back in the green zone for csi. Temp plays a very big part I am noticing.
ok so tomorrow morning ph down to 7.2 vs 7.4. Thanks! Then we are hitting the pavers. We had good momentum this afternoon for 3 hrs or so. Hopefully tomorrow we can get a solid 4 or 5 hours in.
Jim
Ok timer has begun. Thanks for all the help again.
6:30 AM
FC: 4
TA: 60 (from yesterday)
pH: 7.8
32 oz added to get to 7.2
brushed
jim
6:30 AM
FC: 4
TA: 60 (from yesterday)
pH: 7.8
32 oz added to get to 7.2
brushed
jim