Slam questions

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I agree with Crackerjack4u, I think you got a lot of algae in the pool that got a big jump on you while you were away then insufficient circulation let it get father ahead. In my reading it seems people with cartridge filters have more difficulty because the filter clogs easier, be sure to clean filter when pump pressure increases 20-25%. I had to backwash the sand filter 3 x a day the first 3-4 days then it slowed down and when the water cleared it cleared fast. I also did a lot of vacuum to waste everyday until water cleared and I could actually somewhat see the bottom, then that also cleared real fast. My FC really dropped way faster than yours is even with pump on high, I was adding 2-3 a day gallons of 12.5% for first 3-4 days. So I would say your circulation or filter turn over is somewhat slower than mine but you are probably more cost efficient than I am in the long run. I also kept overshooting my slam # by a few ppm because it dropped so fast and I could not be there enough so I think that is a good idea, however I do not know what is too much and would start to damage equipment. But hang in there I think you are on the right track, I too am very impatient and my impatience bit me a few times.

Also if you want to get better and probably faster filtration you may want to look into slime bag or similar. Swampwoman seems to know a lot about these, although I have never used one. I am still where you were leading a pretty charmed life and not really having problems. Hope it continues (LOL) Best of luck but it is really science we just do not know all the variables. If it doesn't clear in a few days ask for help from chem geek he is great for the tough problems.
 
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That is amazing. I went back to your first post and I'm reminded of everything that has happened since you returned from your trip. But we can rest-assured knowing a SLAM will work when the following items are maintained:
- CYA level is correct and verified to ensure proper correlating FC for SLAM
- Correct FC level maintained with bleach
- Pump in 24/7 (in your case high seems to work better)
- Continuous sweeping, vacuuming, and filter cleaning (2 -3 x per day if possible)
You seem to be doing all of those things. So as long as your CYA reading is still correct (and not higher than you first thought), the FC SLAM level should overcome the algae. If this doesn't change soon, we may need to elevate this for more visibility. Hang in there, we certainly want to see you succeed.
 
Good Morning Blivit,

I'm soooo sorry things aren't moving faster for you. However, it sounds like you are doing an awesome job, and are doing exactly what you are suppose to in order to resolve the algae issue. The drops are hopefully saying the Chlorine is in there killing algae. The sun will deplete some of the chlorine too.

What were your FC and CC levels this morning?
Having those daily numbers allows us to be able to double check for you to make sure the pool is remaining at the appropriate levels to get the job done. If it's any consolation, I got frustrated with my pool during my slam too but it is sitting there crystal clear as we speak. You will get there, but with the lower circulation issues you've had, it's going to take a little longer than usual.

I can't tell you when it will clear for sure, but I can tell you that it won't clear until all the algae is killed off, and removed from the pool. So keep up the great job and you WILL get there eventually. Please post your FC CC levels for this morning for me. Have a wonderful day!!! :)
 
Sorry to hear your pool is not changing and I do not understand why your FC is not dropping much more than 1-2 ppm in 8 hrs. It is possible (not probable) that it is metals. Maybe a PM to chem geek to get his opinion would be a good idea. Also, if you post pictures of a beginning shot it may be helpful for an expert to get a proper dx. Also Texas Splash's idea to double check CYA sounds good.
 
Looking at the two pics it does appear to be lighter thank goodness. Your pool is just not reading the SLAM manual "When large amounts of chlorine are added the water should change color." I wonder why?

Where do you get your water from? City or well?

Would it be very hard to take a water sample to the pool store to test for metals? Don't worry about any other test. Just metals. It is the only thing you have not done. I don't know if it will show anything but it cannot hurt unless you have to go WAY out of your way.

HUGS! You are having a rough go of it for sure!

I would also have your wife go over what she did and how often while you were gone. It seems like this happened right after you left. It was almost like the pool was waiting for you to leave then it misbehaved!

Kim
 
Ok by looking at the numbers you posted, and based on your CYA of 40ppm (which was the last CYA level that I saw after going back through the posts).

Is 40 ppm correct on your current CYA level?

If that is the case and 40ppm CYA is correct you appear to still be overshooting your chlorine to much higher than needed levels. (current 22ppm).

I would suggest that IF in fact your CYA is 40ppm still that you don't run your FC levels any higher than 18ppm. (The recommended level is 16ppm and that will give you a 2ppm cushion to keep from dropping below the recommended 16ppm).


My next question is are you understanding how to use the Pool Math calculator alright in order to keep your levels accurate? By the looks of the consistency I suspect you do, but If not, we will be glad to help you with that too.

The issue you run into with high FC levels is, (More is Not necessarily Better), if they are left too high, for too long, it can cause equipment damage and we certainly don't want that to happen so let the numbers drop some and try to remain closer to the 16-18ppm chlorine range. Plus adding over what is needed to kill off the algae merely wastes the additional chlorine so save that extra that you've been putting in for the next time some needs to be added which will help on cost too. :)

I hope this helps, Have a wonderful day :)
 
kimkats said:
Looking at the two pics it does appear to be lighter thank goodness. Your pool is just not reading the SLAM manual "When large amounts of chlorine are added the water should change color." I wonder why?

Where do you get your water from? City or well?

Would it be very hard to take a water sample to the pool store to test for metals? Don't worry about any other test. Just metals. It is the only thing you have not done. I don't know if it will show anything but it cannot hurt unless you have to go WAY out of your way.

HUGS! You are having a rough go of it for sure!

I would also have your wife go over what she did and how often while you were gone. It seems like this happened right after you left. It was almost like the pool was waiting for you to leave then it misbehaved!

Kim
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No idea why my pool didn't get the memo.

City water but I have never put any water in from the hose. My level has always been maintained by rain water then draining if it gets too high.

What metals can a pool store test for that the TF100 cannot?

I really can't fault the wife. My trip was rather last minute and it left her completely alone with the house and our 4 year old and 2 year old boys. We have no family here so I know it was rough and me throwing the pool at her made it worse. I just have to play damage control now.
 

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If you do get positive metal test do not add anything they tell you as while these chemicals can and are useful, they should be used more as a last resort as they have side affects also. (paraphrase from what I read in a chem geek post I hope I did not mess it up too much just do not have the time to search for it). If it is positive bring results here and let some of the experts chime in on the best course of action.
 
Poor wife! 4 and 2 year old boys + a pool???????? HUGS to her that the house is still standing! LOL

The metal test would be interesting to see only because it is the ONLY thing you have not checked. The TF-100 does not test for metals.

Kim
 
Crackerjack4u said:
Ok by looking at the numbers you posted, and based on your CYA of 40ppm (which was the last CYA level that I saw after going back through the posts).

Is 40 ppm correct on your current CYA level?

If that is the case and 40ppm CYA is correct you appear to still be overshooting your chlorine to much higher than needed levels. (current 22ppm).

I would suggest that IF in fact your CYA is 40ppm still that you don't run your FC levels any higher than 18ppm. (The recommended level is 16ppm and that will give you a 2ppm cushion to keep from dropping below the recommended 16ppm).


My next question is are you understanding how to use the Pool Math calculator alright in order to keep your levels accurate? By the looks of the consistency I suspect you do, but If not, we will be glad to help you with that too.

The issue you run into with high FC levels is, (More is Not necessarily Better), if they are left too high, for too long, it can cause equipment damage and we certainly don't want that to happen so let the numbers drop some and try to remain closer to the 16-18ppm chlorine range. Plus adding over what is needed to kill off the algae merely wastes the additional chlorine so save that extra that you've been putting in for the next time some needs to be added which will help on cost too. :)

I hope this helps, Have a wonderful day :)
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Thanks. I do understand pool math and things have really been consistent until this issue. I will be honest though and the cya test is the only one I struggle with. "Seeing" the dot seems overly subjective to me. If anything, the number may be lower (higher up the cylinder.) I have tested it twice since I started slamming and it has always been around the same point.

When I decided to start slamming I purchased 7.5 gallons of bleach as I assumed I would be adding a lot. Thus far, I have only added 3 gallons to raise fc to where it is and basically keep it there for 1 week. My reasoning for overshooting some is to account for variances in either the gallon measurement I have been using and the cya value I am "seeing." I am slowly learning that one or both of those is incorrect. I tend to feel it is the gallon measurement. For example, pool math tells me to add a certain amount to go from 18-20. I add that amount and test again at 22. Testing in close proximity like that should more or less rule out cya concentration I would think.

I have no problem letting fc drop down a little bit.
 
The nice thing about the calculator is that over time it can help you pinpoint your gallon size better.

As for the CYA, test it as much as you want from the same solution as noted here:
Proper lighting is important for the CYA test. You want to test for CYA outside on a sunny day, but keep the skinny view tube in the shade. Taylor recommends standing in the sun with your back to the sun and the view tube in the shade of your body. Use the mixing bottle to combine/mix the required amounts of pool water and R-0013 reagent, let sit for 30 seconds, then mix again. Then, while holding the skinny tube with the black dot at waist level, begin squirting the mixed solution into the skinny tube. Watch the black dot until it completely disappears. Once it disappears, record the CYA reading. After the first test, you can pour the mixed solution from the skinny view tube back to the mixing bottle, shake, and do the same test a second, third, or fourth time to instill consistency in your technique, become more comfortable with the testing, and validate the CYA reading.
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I have a problem reading that CYA test also, I figured next time I need more of a reagent, which at this point may be next year, I would get the 50ppm reference sample of CYA so I really know what to look for but since things were going so well, I was in no rush. Now I will probably have a big problem cause I said that, but we only have a few more weeks of swim season left.
 
What I do for that CYA test is.............

-fill with some water
-look in the tube and look away, look in the tube and look away. IF I can still see the dot I add more water. I do NOT stare at the dot. Look in tube, look away. It is more than a glance but not a stare.

This IS the hardest test of them all! I came up with this rather than drive myself crazy! LOL It works for me!

Kim
 
Awesome, I was almost certain you did understand it by the consistency of the numbers, but wanted to make sure.

The FC levels are based on the current CYA level to ensure you maintain a high enough chlorine level to kill off the algae yet not too high to cause equipment damage. Plus some people do in fact swim in their pools during their SLAMS and if the Chlorine to CYA ratios are too high, it is also unsafe to swim in it. So that's why we base the SLAM levels around the current CYA levels.

As far as having difficulty with the CYA test, lol you're not alone. A lot of people have trouble with it This may sound like a silly solution, but I have personally found that it helps to close one eye, LOL like you do when shooting a gun, and that helps on that last little area of is, or isn't, the dot still there question.
LOL my neighbors may be wondering why the heck I'm out there making passes by winking at my testing supplies, but Hey lol, I say whatever works to get the most accurate results.

Are you still using the 2.5 gallon jugs of 10% that you were using in comment # 9? If so perhaps we can figure out a way to better help you to prevent the additional high unexpected jumps because Pool Math only goes up to 1.5 gallon jug size.

How are you measuring your chlorine? Are you using a measuring cup when you do add, or are you trying to eyeball the larger amounts?

Once I see the answers to those questions I'll see if we can't come up with a solution to help ensure you can keep you numbers right where you need them to be because none of us want to see anything on your beautiful pool get damaged during your slam. I hope this helps :).
 
Crackerjack4u said:
Awesome, I was almost certain you did understand it by the consistency of the numbers, but wanted to make sure.

The FC levels are based on the current CYA level to ensure you maintain a high enough chlorine level to kill off the algae yet not too high to cause equipment damage. Plus some people do in fact swim in their pools during their SLAMS and if the Chlorine to CYA ratios are too high, it is also unsafe to swim in it. So that's why we base the SLAM levels around the current CYA levels.

As far as having difficulty with the CYA test, lol you're not alone. A lot of people have trouble with it This may sound like a silly solution, but I have personally found that it helps to close one eye, LOL like you do when shooting a gun, and that helps on that last little area of is, or isn't, the dot still there question.
LOL my neighbors may be wondering why the heck I'm out there making passes by winking at my testing supplies, but Hey lol, I say whatever works to get the most accurate results.

Are you still using the 2.5 gallon jugs of 10% that you were using in comment # 9? If so perhaps we can figure out a way to better help you to prevent the additional high unexpected jumps because Pool Math only goes up to 1.5 gallon jug size.

How are you measuring your chlorine? Are you using a measuring cup when you do add, or are you trying to eyeball the larger amounts?

Once I see the answers to those questions I'll see if we can't come up with a solution to help ensure you can keep you numbers right where you need them to be because none of us want to see anything on your beautiful pool get damaged during your slam. I hope this helps :).
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I too use the one eyed method for the cya test. I do like the suggestion made by kim above on looking away. I may try that too next time.

I am still using the 2.5 gallon jugs. I don't think the jug size plays a role in the math, only the concentration but I may be wrong.

I have a large pitcher with measurements on the side that I purchased from the local pool store. This allows me to add from 10-40 oz in 2 oz increments so for the larger amounts I just fill then dump a few times but I only had to do that when I first added.
 
Blivit79 said:
I am still using the 2.5 gallon jugs. I don't think the jug size plays a role in the math, only the concentration but I may be wrong.
I have a large pitcher with measurements on the side that I purchased from the local pool store. This allows me to add from 10-40 oz in 2 oz increments so for the larger amounts I just fill then dump a few times but I only had to do that when I first added.
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No I too think you are correct that the concentration is what's needed, but I'm also wondering if since adding the amount it tells you is getting it too high if possibly the concentration is 12% instead of 10%?

I know you said the PS told you it was 10%, but does the jug itself have anything on it to indicate the %? Although it would be nice if it was 12% instead of 10% you'd be getting even more chlorine for your money. :)
 

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