1 year old Pentair Cartridge filter .. deteriorating

[Dave C In Ontario]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts I definitely will do things differently this fall!

 

[curtisb]

Following this thread. My cartridges are 1 year old as well. My cartridges look exactly the same...like someone said I think the top cover was sitting on the cartridges. I turned them around, and will se next time I pull the top off. Please post if you get in touch for warranty!

Curt

 

[Dave C In Ontario]

Just an observation...each of the cartridges shows damage in the same location, probably where the manifold was resting.

I was searching for thread from last year in which the OP had alternated between two sets of cartridges but only one set showed damage. I believe the OP contacted Pentair for a warranty claim. I can't find the thread now.

A couple other similar posts:

Pentair filter cartridge end cap deterioration

The blue end caps of my pentair cartridge filters are deteriorating. When cleaning them today, I noticed the rubber is very brittle as well. Pool and filters are 8 months old. Salt water. Is this normal?

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair Clean & Clear Plus 420 filter element lifetime?

So I had my pool installed last year, and started up in May. I ran the pool all summer with great water chemistry (thanks). I had the pool builder close to maintain warranty for the ridiculous price of $400 CAD (around $320 USD). I'll be opening the pool myself. So I opened up my filter and...

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Sorry I missed this reply, thanks for the info, that possibility didn't occur to me.

 

[Dave C In Ontario]

Just a follow up ..
Talked to Pentair.. no warranty because on Page 2 of the IntelliFlo pump installation manual.. it states..
NO 90 degree piping used for inlet .. OR outlet.. Which my picture shows..
So, I have now forwarded that email from Pentair to my Pool builder .. as they said.. need to fix the plumbing, before replacing the filters..
I am sure the PB .. will balk at replacing the cartridges because of the plumbing ... but we will see...

 

[JoyfulNoise]

By the way … did you install that gas heater or did the PB?

Just an FYI, it is NOT code to use those flexible yellow gas lines to supply the heater. Not only in the small diameter very restrictive but those flexi lines are NOT RATED for outdoor use. The gas supply should be hard galvanized pipe all the way to the gas valve inside the heater with proper unions and shutoffs. What you have their would fail inspection.

 

[JamesW]

Talked to Pentair.. no warranty because on Page 2 of the IntelliFlo pump installation manual.. it states..
NO 90 degree piping used for inlet .. OR outlet.. Which my picture shows..

The pump manual is irrelevant to the filter issue.

If the problem was with the pump, then maybe they could claim improper installation, but the problem is with the filter which means that the filter installation manual is what matters.

Even if the pump had an issue, they would have to prove or at least explain why the 90s caused a problem.

In any case, the filter was installed correctly and the warranty would still apply.

 

[Dave C In Ontario]

By the way … did you install that gas heater or did the PB?

Just an FYI, it is NOT code to use those flexible yellow gas lines to supply the heater. Not only in the small diameter very restrictive but those flexi lines are NOT RATED for outdoor use. The gas supply should be hard galvanized pipe all the way to the gas valve inside the heater with proper unions and shutoffs. What you have their would fail inspection.

Was installed by another company not PB .( I'm not sure if Ontario code is the same ) .. I'll look into it though

 

[Dave C In Ontario]

The pump manual is irrelevant to the filter issue.

If the problem was with the pump, then maybe they could claim improper installation, but the problem is with the filter which means that the filter installation manual is what matters.

Even if the pump had an issue, they would have to prove or at least explain why the 90s caused a problem.

In any case, the filter was installed correctly and the warranty would still apply.

Pentair argument was that because the hard 90 - it increased pressure inside filter.. ( I would think it would increase it at the pump side.. though )

 

[Newdude]

The gas supply should be hard galvanized pipe all the way to the gas valve inside the heater

I worked with a propane guy as a side job about 7 years ago. We installed a bunch of pool heaters that summer using the above line for short runs and the 1 inch gas line version of pex, buried for long runs. The buried poly pipe used sharkbite like connectors if it was longer than the 100ft roll. They were massive, the size of a nerf football, but the same style push till it clicks like the 1/2 inchers.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Just to clarify - is the a NG or propane heater?

 

[JamesW]

Pentair argument was that because the hard 90 - it increased pressure inside filter.

Complete nonsense and irrelevant.

The 90 makes virtually zero difference and it would only reduce the flow and pressure to the filter.

In any case, the only details that matter are ones where the filter was installed or operated improperly.

The filter installation manual says nothing about the use of 90 degree fittings anywhere on the system.

Unless the maximum flow was exceeded or the maximum pressure was exceeded, the operation is correct.

Never Exceed Maximum Pressure of Components. The maximum working pressure of this filter is 50 psi.

Never subject this filter to higher pressure, even when conducting hydrostatic pressure tests.

Pressures above 50 psi can damage your filter

Clean & Clear® Plus Cartridge Filters

The Clean & Clear Plus filter delivers commercial-grade performance that keeps pools clean and clear, day in and day out. Find out where to buy here.

www.pentair.com

https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/nam/pentair-pool/residential/manuals/filters/clean-and-clear-plus/clean-and-clear-plus-install-guide-english.pdf

The pump can’t even get to 150 gpm or 50 psi, so the operation is correct.

90 feet of head is 39 psi.

The pump might just barely be able to get to 150, but it probably never will.

Unless Pentair can highlight a specific part of the manual that was violated, the warranty applies.

IntelliFlo® VSF Variable Speed and Flow Pool Pump

The IntelliFlo VSF pump is the first of its kind to respond to changes in your pool’s environment in order to maintain a preprogrammed flow rate. There’s no more guesswork—just set the desired flow rate and the pump will adjust as needed. It’s like cruise control for your pump. And, the...

www.pentair.com

 

[Dave C In Ontario]

By the way … did you install that gas heater or did the PB?

Just an FYI, it is NOT code to use those flexible yellow gas lines to supply the heater. Not only in the small diameter very restrictive but those flexi lines are NOT RATED for outdoor use. The gas supply should be hard galvanized pipe all the way to the gas valve inside the heater with proper unions and shutoffs. What you have their would fail inspection.

Just a follow up .. because I thought the install was bad as well..
FYI: Natural Gas.

The code here...
a) Outdoors – When installed outdoors, the external jacketing shall remain intact as much as practical for the given installation.
Any portions of the exposed stainless steel tubing shall be wrapped with tape or sleeved to prevent later threats
by acid or chloride based cleaning solutions for masonry. Self-bonding silicone tape is recommended here for durability.
b) Along side a structure – When installed along the outside of a structure (between the ground and a height of 6 ft.) in
an exposed condition, the CSST shall be protected from mechanical damage inside a conduit or chase. A conduit or
chase is not required if the tubing is installed in a location that will not subject the CSST to mechanical damage.”

When I asked the installer why no conduit to protect it .. he said it's not in a location that is subject to mechanical damage.. so "you're good"

 

[Newdude]

a) Outdoors – When installed outdoors, the external jacketing shall remain intact as much as practical for the given installation

When abandoning the buried heating oil tank for an above ground in order to sell my house, we used the same flex pipe, just, the orange one instead of the yellow.

Now that Matt points it out, it probably doesn't fare so well 100 miles south of Heck.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

When abandoning the buried heating oil tank for an above ground in order to sell my house, we used the same flex pipe, just, the orange one instead of the yellow.

Now that Matt points it out, it probably doesn't fare so well 100 miles south of Heck.

TRUTH!!

Yeah, there’s no way you can use that jacketed flexible stuff outdoors anywhere here. It would be vaporized in under a year. Gas lines are either either thick-walled PEX (buried, low pressure) or galvanized iron (above ground, high pressure). Transition from below ground with a riser is all galvanized pipe to the heater. No flex allowed.

I can understand the Canadian code being more lenient …

 

[Dave C In Ontario]

TRUTH!!

Yeah, there’s no way you can use that jacketed flexible stuff outdoors anywhere here. It would be vaporized in under a year. Gas lines are either either thick-walled PEX (buried, low pressure) or galvanized iron (above ground, high pressure). Transition from below ground with a riser is all galvanized pipe to the heater. No flex allowed.

I can understand the Canadian code being more lenient …

honestly .. i still didn't like it, but with no code issues.. I can't really force the issue without paying more..
Everywhere else I have iron, except for this heater run.

And I can safely say .. i'll never use that guy again.

 

[Dave C In Ontario]

So I wrote back to Pentair with some of the concerns... Like .. elbow likely reduced pressure not increased it..
My gauge was a constant 8-10 psi .. etc .. is there any other reason this might have happened..?
They now asked for what speed I ran my pump ( 750 filteration - 1850 for waterfall feature)
They also asked for my pool chem tests.
Here is where I am sure I'll get roasted by them.. for not having it "professionally" tested... I shared my pool logs link .. ( does anyone see issues in my logs? )

 

[JoyfulNoise]

You chems are fine. They’re going to say your FC was out of spec, too high. They base their FC on industry standards, 1-4ppm with no correction for CYA. They’ll probably also say your pH was too high … expect them to continue to balk.

 

[Dave C In Ontario]

You chems are fine. They’re going to say your FC was out of spec, too high. They base their FC on industry standards, 1-4ppm with no correction for CYA. They’ll probably also say your pH was too high … expect them to continue to balk.

I believe in TPF method.. the question is.. what do i say to them.. lol.

secondly .. how do you get your chem additions and vacuuming etc.. to show up in your logs?

 

[JamesW]

The filter manual does not specify any chemistry required.

 

[JamesW]

This reference indicates the “generally accepted practices for the safe operation of a public recreational water facility”.

Ontario Regulation 565 - Public Pools (Reg. 565 (Public Pools)) under the Health Protection and Promotion Act R.S.O 1990 (HPPA) was modernized to include regulatory requirements for public pools, public spas and Class C facilities (wading pools, spray pads, splash pads and water slide receiving basins).

The Recreational Water Reference Document (RW-RD), represents generally accepted practices for the safe operation of a public recreational water facility and includes summary information about Reg. 565 (Public Pools).

None of your parameters go outside the official government regulations.

https://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/pro...ards/docs/reference/recreational_water_en.pdf

The filter is certified as “Commercial” grade and that means that it should be fine operating under commercial regulations.

Flow Rate: Commercial rate is a maximum of .375 GPM sq. ft. of filter area.