Drain pool using pump but the Polaris booster pump is activated when the main pump goes above a certain RPM. Will this damage the booster pump?

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BRSAustinTX

BRSAustinTX

0
Feb 1, 2015
27
Austin, TX
Hello,

After 17 years, my water is in need of replacement and I need to drain a 12K gallon pool. Since I'm able to shutoff the skimmers to isolate the main drain, I was planning to use the main pump to drain. (Thanks to TFP for advice in this area!)

However, I recently replaced the main pump and the booster pump. The pool repair company removed the booster pump from an independent switch/timer and wired it into the main pump. The booster now comes on when the main pump goes above a certain RPM. I guess this makes sense but I have no way (other than unwiring it) to turn off the booster pump while still allowing the main pump to run fast to drain the pool. My fear is that the new booster pump will be running but with little to no water in it and will burn out.

Any thoughts/ideas?

Or should I just rent a submersible pump and call it a day?

Thanks!
 
BRSAustinTX said:
Hello,

After 17 years, my water is in need of replacement and I need to drain a 12K gallon pool. Since I'm able to shutoff the skimmers to isolate the main drain, I was planning to use the main pump to drain. (Thanks to TFP for advice in this area!)

However, I recently replaced the main pump and the booster pump. The pool repair company removed the booster pump from an independent switch/timer and wired it into the main pump. The booster now comes on when the main pump goes above a certain RPM. I guess this makes sense but I have no way (other than unwiring it) to turn off the booster pump while still allowing the main pump to run fast to drain the pool. My fear is that the new booster pump will be running but with little to no water in it and will burn out.

Any thoughts/ideas?

Or should I just rent a submersible pump and call it a day?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
You cannot run the booster pump if it runs dry, it will be severely damaged and that happens very quickly on those pumps.
You're also not likely to be able to completely drain a pool without a submersible pump anyway.
That's the safest way for all your equipment.

Sometimes you can purchase a decent submersible pump for less than the cost of rental. Harbor Freight has one for about $60.00 that can work. They aren't bad to have if you ever need to lower the water in the pool as, again, it is easier on the pool equipment if you don't use it for that purpose.
 
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Do you have a separate breaker for the Booster?

You can run the pump below the booster relay activation speed.

What is the pump model number?

Can you change the booster relay activation speed?

What is the current relay activation speed?
 
JamesW said:
Do you have a separate breaker for the Booster?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately no. They wired them both into an Intermatic timer (that's now basically an on/off switch only.
JamesW said:
You can run the pump below the booster relay activation speed.

What is the pump model number?
Click to expand...
Main pump is Jandy VSFHP185DV2A, Booster is Polaris PB4-60
JamesW said:
Can you change the booster relay activation speed?
Click to expand...
I don't think I can do it. He set it when he installed the two pumps (plus the iAqua Link control system)
JamesW said:
What is the current relay activation speed?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure. I guess I could run the main pump just below the relay activation speed but, depending on how low that is, it might defeat the purpose (speed) of using the main pump to drain it.
 

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3.6.1 Auxiliary Relay Operation.

Auxiliary Relay contact activation is speed dependent.

Auxiliary Relay 1 has an activation speed of 1725 RPM and Auxiliary Relay 2 has an activation speed of 2250
RPM.

The Jandy SpeedSet controller provides the ability to reprogram the Auxiliary Relay open/close speeds for customization.

Open/close speed settings that are changed using this feature are permanent even if the SpeedSet controller is disconnected.

Please refer to the "Settings" section in the Jandy SpeedSet controller I/O manual for additional details.

3.6.2 Contact Closure.

From a stopped condition, there is a three-minute delay before the Auxiliary Relay contact is closed when the motor speed reaches and maintains the activation speed.

Once the three minute run time criteria has been reached, when going from an RPM below the activation speed to an RPM above the activation speed, there is a 5-seconddelay before the Auxiliary Relay contact is closed.

Contact Opening

When going from an RPM above the activation speed to an RPM below the activation speed, the relay opening is always immediate


Energy Saving Pool Pump: Jandy VS FloPro 1.85 Hp, 115v/230v, 2-Auxiliary Relay Variable-Speed Pump | Jandy

Looking for an Energy Saving Pool Pump? Find the Jandy VS FloPro 1.85 HP for the Perfect Pool Experience. Buy Now w/ a Pool Pro Near You!
www.jandy.com www.jandy.com
 
BRSAustinTX said:
Unfortunately no. They wired them both into an Intermatic timer (that's now basically an on/off switch only.

Main pump is Jandy VSFHP185DV2A, Booster is Polaris PB4-60

I don't think I can do it. He set it when he installed the two pumps (plus the iAqua Link control system)

I'm not sure. I guess I could run the main pump just below the relay activation speed but, depending on how low that is, it might defeat the purpose (speed) of using the main pump to drain it.
Click to expand...
Using the filter pump to completely drain a pool is not usually possible unless there is a separate line to the main drain and a valve to shut off the skimmer. Most of the time the pump will stop pumping with more water in the pool than is wanted. If it runs in that condition for long at the very least the shaft seal will be damaged.
Even an inexpensive submersible has an auto shut off when the water reaches a certain point and is much safer to use.
While the pump may be wired to the timeclock, it should not be used to power it on and off, those pumps need to have constant power.
 
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BRSAustinTX said:
After 17 years, my water is in need of replacement and I need to drain a 12K gallon pool.
Click to expand...
What is wrong with the water?

Can you drain just half?

Does the booster come on any time the main pump gets to a certain speed?

You should have a way to control the booster independently.

The main pump can be on continuous power and the booster can be put on the timer so that it does not run continuously.

If you cannot control when the booster runs, then tell the installers to come back and make it work like it should work.
 

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Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

Draining pools entails risk.

Vinyl liner pools should not be drained below leaving 12-18” of water in the shallow end.

The liner can shift and get destroyed.

Fiberglass pools should not be drained unless significant precautions are taken as they can pop out of the ground.

Gunite/plaster pools can also pop out of the ground if local water levels are high.

Also, plaster can fail if let to dry out in the hot sun.

Popped Gunite Pool.png

If you you periodically need to drain the pool due to accumulating CH or CYA then consider the time of year.

For example pools in the southwest who typically see high CH levels every 18 mos or so ideally like to exchange water in the winter when the sun isn't so intense on their plaster.

Here is where a contractor drained a fiberglass pool before a rain storm and the pool popped out of the ground from hydrostatic pressure.
 
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1poolman1 said:
Using the filter pump to completely drain a pool is not usually possible unless there is a separate line to the main drain and a valve to shut off the skimmer. Most of the time the pump will stop pumping with more water in the pool than is wanted. If it runs in that condition for long at the very least the shaft seal will be damaged.
Even an inexpensive submersible has an auto shut off when the water reaches a certain point and is much safer to use.
While the pump may be wired to the timeclock, it should not be used to power it on and off, those pumps need to have constant power.
Click to expand...
Yes, I use the app to control the speed now and the pump (both pumps actually) have constant power from the Intermatic.

Considering all the risks, and the comparable cost, I’ll likely use a submersible pump.
 
JamesW said:
What is wrong with the water?

Can you drain just half?

Does the booster come on any time the main pump gets to a certain speed?

You should have a way to control the booster independently.

The main pump can be on continuous power and the booster can be put on the timer so that it does not run continuously.

If you cannot control when the booster runs, then tell the installers to come back and make it work like it should work.
Click to expand...
Yes, I didn’t really think through the implications when he told me how he was setting it up. That works ok in normal operation but if I need to run the pump continuously for any reason, I don’t want to be forced to have the booster run. Going to call them back.

Issues - the TDS is way high and I heard this happens after a long time (17 yrs). I could probably get by with a 3/4 drain.
 
JamesW said:
It is probably just salt.

What are all readings including salt?

Maybe switch over to a SWG.
Click to expand...
We had a SWG for about 10 yrs and I got tired of spending 700-800 every 3 yrs on a new cell so now just treat it like it’s a non salt pool. I’ll share full numbers once I am back home.

If anyone has tips on a better SWG cell that has longer life, I’m all ears. Previously had a Jandy AquaClear.
 
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BRSAustinTX said:
Previously had a Jandy AquaClear.
Click to expand...
Which one? (I'm guessing the 700 which is the smaller version).

You want a very large cell with your long and hot seasons, you'll go through tons of chlorine no matter how you add it.

With no spa (per your sig, correct me and update it if so) you're free to leave the Jandy SWGs which are limited in size. Circupool and Pentair make 60k units that will make the same FC in proportionately less time. Cells have a finite lifespan in hours producing (about 10k) and the more you need to run the smaller units, the faster they reach end of life. Again, in TX you will have a little unit on all day, for many many many days. The upgrade cost is far less than the lifespan gained, so you may get a 5X SWG for less than double the cost.
BRSAustinTX said:
the TDS is way high
Click to expand...
TDS is a junk stat. The individual components are what matters. 2 + 4 + 1 + 3 for example. The answer of 10 means nothing. But if the pool store can get you to drain because of it, they erase their mismanagement AND get to sell you all the rebalance chemicals. It's a win-win for them.

BRSAustinTX said:
Or should I just rent a submersible pump and call it a day?
Click to expand...
I'd buy one. 1.6 HP pumps on amazon are under $100 and can push close to 5k GPH with a fat discharge hose. If the equipment pad is more or less at water height, it will drain down below the skimmer using the main drain, but will lose prime at some point before you are done. Likely well before. I use mine to lower the pool for closing, but only a foot to 18 inches. I have to babysit it to ensure it doesn't lose prime once it's below the skimmer.
 
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Newdude said:
Which one? (I'm guessing the 700 which is the smaller version).

You want a very large cell with your long and hot seasons, you'll go through tons of chlorine no matter how you add it.

With no spa (per your sig, correct me and update it if so) you're free to leave the Jandy SWGs which are limited in size. Circupool and Pentair make 60k units that will make the same FC in proportionately less time. Cells have a finite lifespan in hours producing (about 10k) and the more you need to run the smaller units, the faster they reach end of life. Again, in TX you will have a little unit on all day, for many many many days. The upgrade cost is far less than the lifespan gained, so you may get a 5X SWG for less than double the cost.

TDS is a junk stat. The individual components are what matters. 2 + 4 + 1 + 3 for example. The answer of 10 means nothing. But if the pool store can get you to drain because of it, they erase their mismanagement AND get to sell you all the rebalance chemicals. It's a win-win for them.


I'd buy one. 1.6 HP pumps on amazon are under $100 and can push close to 5k GPH with a fat discharge hose. If the equipment pad is more or less at water height, it will drain down below the skimmer using the main drain, but will lose prime at some point before you are done. Likely well before. I use mine to lower the pool for closing, but only a foot to 18 inches. I have to babysit it to ensure it doesn't lose prime once it's below the skimmer.
Click to expand...
Very helpful James! Thanks for the advice. I liked the SWG but just figured I could buy a lot of tabs for what I was spending on a new cell every 3 years.

I’ll see if I can find the latest pool test from Leslie’s. The CYA was also quite high.

Thank you!
 

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