Should I Go With A Gas Heater Or Electric Heat Pump?

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ForceEdge

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2020
142
Long Island
Pool Size
27000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
I’m so conflicted as to what I should go with. Of course cost savings over time is mainly what I’m considering. I know gas heaters heat up MUCH quicker than heat pumps but I believe it will drive up my gas usage majorly during the summer. To be honest my bill during summer months is around $40-45 bucks a month. So I’m just worried how a gas heater will effect that. Hoping some people with gas heaters can share their bills after heater

Now for the electric heat pump I do have solar on my house, (13.75 KW system) but I know it takes much longer to heat the pool up with a heat pump, and my pool Guy was saying they aren’t authorized to fix, or replace anything inside a heat pump because of refrigerant as well so that was also something I was thinking about.

Was hoping a few can chime in and give opinions and thoughts on this. Also consider reliability on both systems

Thanks again!!
 
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Do you have a spa?

What temperature do you want to swim at?

I spend maybe $100 - $150/month heating the pool to 86F and the spa to 100F.

Much of it in May/June and Aug/Sept. Ignore this June I was away all month.

1691073653880.png
 
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ForceEdge said:
my bill during summer months is around $40-45 bucks a month. So I’m just worried how a gas heater will effect that.
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If you're on propane, your 27000-gallon pool will require 3 gallons for every increase of one degree Fahrenheit.

If you're on natural gas, it'll be around 2.75 therms per degree F.

Using a 400,000 BTU heater, your pool will heat at around 1.5 degrees F per hour.
 
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ajw22 said:
Do you have a spa?

What temperature do you want to swim at?

I spend maybe $100 - $150/month heating the pool to 86F and the spa to 100F.

Much of it in May/June and Aug/Sept. Ignore this June I was away all month.

View attachment 519366
Click to expand...
So may and June and august September your natural gas bill is around 100-150 dollars?
(I’m with national grid)

Summer months as I said I’m around $40 bucks. So should I expect around a $100 increase around those months?

Here is last months natural gas bill
 
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If you keep the pool covered overnight, then you will spend a lot less. Overnight evaporative heat loss is the largest source of cooling in a pool. If you don’t cover it then you can expect all of the heat you added during the day to be gone by morning.
 
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Natural Gas Heater will be the best way to go. It could extend your season until October if you wanted in New York. I agree with @JoyfulNoise I recommend investing in a solar cover if you don't already have one. This will retain a lot of the heat and prevent the water from evaporating at night which is the biggest reason for heat loss. With the solar cover I only lose like 2-3 degrees at night compared to without the cover I would lose anywhere from 5-10 degrees or more depending on the outside temperature. The electric Electric Heat Pump would take longer to reach your ideal temperature as it gets colder outside and in the spring while it's still cold, it could take a week or so to reach your ideal temperature.
 
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Having PV solar will certainly help the HP's costs, even if only that you're starting in a lower bracket when it starts costing you. My HP was in addition to already being in a higher tier with the ACs running (no solar), so it got spendy quick.

We had a couple cool seasons and it simply couldn't perform with a large pool on LI on those years. For the couple of warm seasons it worked great. If we wanted to have a swim weekend early/late, it was entirely dependent on the weather. Many times I ran it for 2 weeks straight with little or no gain and full cost.

The HP excells at heating with moderately warm water/air. It will be cheaper during the regular season and get expensive in the extended season. Think like an AC but in reverse. An AC doesn't cost much to remain cool when it's 70, but costs a fortune when it's 100. The HP will sip energy when its 80 outside and suck energy at 60, if it even works at 60. Mine got dicey anywhere below 70.

The gas heater on the other hand excells at overcoming unfavorable weather. You won't mind paying for the performance when you needed it, but you will mind when you're paying for that same performance and you didn't need nearly as much of it mid season.

Unfortunately you have to choose one with a limited budget. In a perfect world, we'd all have one of each.
 
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Serviceability is something you mentioned too and that is a good reason to go with gas. Most pool shops are willing to send some kid to your house to fumble around with a gas heater and throw lots of spare replacement parts at it, especially when you’re paying over $100/hr for them to stand there scratching their read ends. Almost none of them are willing to touch a heat pump because it’s an HVAC system and they don’t have the tools or experience to know where to start. And most HVAC techs won’t touch a pool heat pump because it has the word “pool” associated with it and they don’t work on pools. So you’re left dealing with the manufacturers customer support and, if they agree to exercise the warranty, whatever knucklehead they can cajole to go to your house and take a look.
 
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1poolman1 said:
If your rate for gas doesn't change, based on that bill a 400K BTU heater will cost +/- $5.50 per hour to run.
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Okay how do you figure that just curious? How many hours a day do you think I’d need it on for? If it runs 4 hours that’s $20 a day? Sounds somewhat expensive 🤷‍♂️
 
Newdude said:
Having PV solar will certainly help the HP's costs, even if only that you're starting in a lower bracket when it starts costing you. My HP was in addition to already being in a higher tier with the ACs running (no solar), so it got spendy quick.

We had a couple cool seasons and it simply couldn't perform with a large pool on LI on those years. For the couple of warm seasons it worked great. If we wanted to have a swim weekend early/late, it was entirely dependent on the weather. Many times I ran it for 2 weeks straight with little or no gain and full cost.

The HP excells at heating with moderately warm water/air. It will be cheaper during the regular season and get expensive in the extended season. Think like an AC but in reverse. An AC doesn't cost much to remain cool when it's 70, but costs a fortune when it's 100. The HP will sip energy when its 80 outside and suck energy at 60, if it even works at 60. Mine got dicey anywhere below 70.

The gas heater on the other hand excells at overcoming unfavorable weather. You won't mind paying for the performance when you needed it, but you will mind when you're paying for that same performance and you didn't need nearly as much of it mid season.

Unfortunately you have to choose one with a limited budget. In a perfect world, we'd all have one of each.
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Great explanation. So I’m guessing your on Long Island to so this information helps a lot. All of June the water was quite cold along with the water so we didn’t get to enjoy. July it warmed up and august it’s been stable at around 80 degrees but I’d love to get more out of my pool then just maybe 2 and a half months if that.

Sounds like a gas heater is better. I wonder if they have gas heaters that I could turn on from my phone. That would be great.

May I ask why you didn’t go with a gas one? And if you could would you even with the expense?
 
JoyfulNoise said:
Serviceability is something you mentioned too and that is a good reason to go with gas. Most pool shops are willing to send some kid to your house to fumble around with a gas heater and throw lots of spare replacement parts at it, especially when you’re paying over $100/hr for them to stand there scratching their read ends. Almost none of them are willing to touch a heat pump because it’s an HVAC system and they don’t have the tools or experience to know where to start. And most HVAC techs won’t touch a pool heat pump because it has the word “pool” associated with it and they don’t work on pools. So you’re left dealing with the manufacturers customer support and, if they agree to exercise the warranty, whatever knucklehead they can cajole to go to your house and take a look.
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This is also something I’m very worried of. It’s exactly what my pool guy told me. If I were to go with a gas heater what brand and specs would you recommend?

Also, do you have a heater yourself? And is it gas of electric.
 
JoyfulNoise said:
If you keep the pool covered overnight, then you will spend a lot less. Overnight evaporative heat loss is the largest source of cooling in a pool. If you don’t cover it then you can expect all of the heat you added during the day to be gone by morning.
Click to expand...
I actually just bought a solar cover a couple days ago. Hate the bothersome of taking it on and off because it’s nice to jump in whenever you want. Do you find the solar cover an annoyance yourself?
 
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ForceEdge said:
This is also something I’m very worried of. It’s exactly what my pool guy told me. If I were to go with a gas heater what brand and specs would you recommend?

Also, do you have a heater yourself? And is it gas of electric.
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Look at Pentair MasterTemp or the Raypak Avia heater. The Raypak one I believe has WiFi control options.

I have a gas heater but I also line on the southwest desert so my environment and swim season is completely different than yours (although I did grow up on LI so I know what you’re dealing with).

ForceEdge said:
I actually just bought a solar cover a couple days ago. Hate the bothersome of taking it on and off because it’s nice to jump in whenever you want. Do you find the solar cover an annoyance yourself?
Click to expand...

I don’t use a solar cover because it’s just too much of a PITA in my setup and I’d only need it for a few week at the beginning of the season. So it’s a total waste on time and (personal) energy for me to cover the pool.
 
ForceEdge said:
May I ask why you didn’t go with a gas one?
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At the time of build #1, the neighbors had a propane heater and the gas truck was there every 2 weeks. The PB went on and on about how efficient the HPs were, and he may have been right compared to the olden days, but it was still an energy hog when it was cool. It also struggled with 35k gallons and 1/3 the BTUs of the gas heater.
ForceEdge said:
And if you could would you even with the expense?
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I left room on the pad at build #2 for a gas heater if I ever want another one. We found that when it's cool, nobody felt like swimming anyway so it would only be for one time events like parties.
ForceEdge said:
I actually just bought a solar cover a couple days ago. Hate the bothersome of taking it on and off because it’s nice to jump in whenever you want
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Exactly this. Evrytime the kids asked to swim I had to go roll up the cover. Then put it back on. Then an hour later they'd want to swim again. I HATED that thing and all we wanted to do was run and cannonball into the pool, but no.

But it literally cut the electric bill in half (the HP part anyway) which started at $600 for the cool month and $800 for the cold month.
 
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ForceEdge said:
Okay how do you figure that just curious? How many hours a day do you think I’d need it on for? If it runs 4 hours that’s $20 a day? Sounds somewhat expensive 🤷‍♂️
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With solar cover, you probably only need to run it 2 hours a day to make up for slight temperature drop. Without the solar cover you would probably have to run it 6-8 hours per day.
 
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ForceEdge said:
Okay how do you figure that just curious? How many hours a day do you think I’d need it on for? If it runs 4 hours that’s $20 a day? Sounds somewhat expensive 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
Every 100K BTUs is 1 therm. I pay approximately $1/therm. So my 400K BTU heater costs $4/hour to run.

In your 27,000 gallon pool a 400K BTU heater will heat the water about 1.4 degrees/hour.

Will you be swimming every day? Will you be heating the pool every day?

With a gas heater you can heat on demand. If you don't plan to swim then don't have the heater on.

Knowing that your heater will heat your pool 1 to 1.4 degrees/hour you can look at your current water temperature and desired water temperature and know how long in advance to turn on the heater. Then turn off the heater when you are done swimming. There is no reason to burn gas and throw away BTUs when no one is in the pool.

I don't have a pool cover and my pool can lose 3-4 degrees overnight. 1-2 degrees of that can be made up with the sun by 1 or 2PM. So if I am planning to swim in the late afternoon it costs me maybe $8 to get a few more degrees in the pool to where I like it.

If you manage your heater you can manage your gas bill. A gas heater is not a set it and forget it appliance that you let run on cold raining days. Use it selectively when you want to boost the temperature of the pool before swim times.
 
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