New PB Quote - Texas

I’m with @Jimrahbe on the spa. We have an attached spa and we barely ever use it. We maybe heat it up for the kids in the shoulder months to use as a “kid pool” but otherwise it’s not very comfortable or useful. It added $10,000 to our pool build 10 years ago. If I had the opportunity to do it again, I would get rid of it and just make the sun shelf larger with a bubbler or two.

Keep the suction line. It’s a couple of hundred bucks on a $100k … peanuts.

Which gets to the point - you’re not going to change the price much by doing adjustments at the margin. If you’re uneasy about spending the money, then honestly, cancel the project now and see what you can do to get some of your down payment back or talk to the pool builder and significantly modify the project.

On a personal note, earlier this year my wife and I entertained a very large landscape update to our front and backyard. We engaged a landscape designer and kicked off the process. When all was said and done, he showed up with a beautiful project plan with amazingly detailed design work … and a $100k ESTIMATED project cost. We took two weeks to mull it over and then, when he returned for a final design check in, we cancelled the project. We totally ate the design fee which was nearly $1000 and that covered his costs and design work (he left us the full plan) for the preceding months of back and forth discussions. While I hated eating $1000 for a bunch of rolled up scaled plans, I have considered the peace of mind worth it for not burning through savings to do an unnecessary project during this phase of inflation and recession. I’m happy we cancelled back in March because where we are now economically in September only shows that I was right to see the looming recession.

I lost $1000 bucks but gained many restful nights of sleep.

My .02
Consider to Remove

• Spa Bubbler (my kids will destroy this)
  • Is this the spa itself or an extra water feature? If you want a spa keep it but if you winterize your pool I think it's a waste since it's closed when it's cool/cold outside. As suggested I'd do a stand alone. Water features are cool but that wears off.
• Lesson decking area near spa (we will likely sit under our patio instead)
  • Do grass except for the end by the stairs. So, so much less expensive and it's easy to replace with pavers or concrete when you have the money to spend (and I think it looks great...see my avi).
• Downgrade to 1 shear descent or remove entirely
  • downgrading gives you want you like & you have to stop the (financial) bleeding somewhere. How much do you save? To do 1 or 3 probably isn't that much labor difference compared to not doing it. I don't know that you'll save that much.
• Downgrade to hammered edging on leuders coping (currently bullnosed for kids safety?)
  • 100% yes. Stone hurts if you land on it. Bullnose doesn't make it any better or safer.
• Remove suction line (if robot dies I'll just buy another vs. keeping an inferior suction cleaner on-deck in the event the robot dies)
  • 100% get rid of it.
• Downgrade to #3-10" rebar?
  • If it still meets the standard yes. No need to "over do it" for the sake of over doing it.
• Remove Umbrella Sleeves
  • I agree with Jim (that made me laugh too)
• Not sure why there is 60+ feet of electrical. The subpanel already installed is arms reach of where the equipment will be located
  • If you have up to 60' of electrical use that to your advantage. If you only use 20' have them put in speaker wire or something that you can use. You'll need an outlet 10' from the pool but no farther than 20' so you might eat up 60' before you know it.

Get old school white halogen light. Save a lot of money on the led lights. They look cool but it's cooler to have a working light. Mine failed in the 3rd year and there are tons of stories like mine. The halogen bulbs are 100x more reliable than led. Lots of reports of great working led lights but imo you can't compare the reliability of old school lights.

Also ask them to plumb for a salt cell now to add next year. You can have them return to install it when you have the money. I went 2 season w/o a salt cell and I lived, haha.
Get it all itemized so you know what you can shave off before you sign the contract. If it's not itemized they'll just play with the numbers to get their price. Same for any construction project. If they won't itemize after you ask, don't use them. It's a red flag. They may have already itemized, just a thought.

+1 on the no spa. Granted my pool is still being built (almost done, waiting on plaster).

We are in the Houston Texas area and we think it is too hot and too humid to make use of a Spa.

However if we miss it then we will just buy a standalone jacuzzi and do something nice with it.

As others have said I have used both jacuzzis and built in spas and the built in gunite spas are not even close to as good as the stand alone ergonomic spaceships with a billion jets that have massage modes, and are self contained units that can be heated and balanced 100% independent of pool.

Just my 2cents.

By not doing the spa we made the tanning ledge huge, made the pool larger overall, got over 20 feet of rock waterfalls, added more decking, upgraded to stamped concrete, and still managed to stay in our budget.

We had the same internal debate about value. We knew we wanted a pool, we knew we adults would use it regardless of the kids using it. Prices are more likely to stay flat or continue to go up then they are to have any significant drop. Also we stayed under 10% of home value and paid in cash so no debt and no interest. In the end for us it was a go.

One of the builders we talked to tried to sell us on the fusion system. When I looked into it I didn't like what I saw. I read that they were old, not very common, and minerals in the pool are not worth it. We started telling builders we'd only consider them if they did pentair.

I am the rare exception here apparently but I actually love my attached spa. We did not do one on our last pool and kind of felt like we should have. We added one on our new pool and honestly I was pretty on the fence about it all the way up until we signed the contract. Now having it for a few months I am glad we did. We are in North East Texas and although usually hot as heck we are already getting to the point where it is cooling off a lot at night so water temp is dropping to low 80s. We had a party for labor day and I fired up the spa and everyone hung out in it then jumped in the pool occasionally kind of a hot and cold thing. If I didn't have the spa I think only a couple kids would have got in. I should also say we are in a rural area and on propane so it would be insanely expensive to heat the pool we just do the spa.

I agree with @JoyfulNoise though the changes you are considering are not going to move the needle in a huge way unless you are willing to get rid of the spa all together. I think our spa added about $12k. If not you may shave a few thousand which isn't nothing but in the grand scheme of things isn't all that substantial either. You are correct though we built our first pool in 2017 for $64k and our new one was $87k not apples to apples but we had way more paver decking on our first pool and a huge cedar pergola. There has been a significant cost increase.

All that being said I would dump the fusion system and see about a SWG instead. Our builder also had the fusion2 in their basic pool package. It is just a "mineral sanitizer" We had a UV and Ozone system in our last pool and looking into the Fusion 2 it seemed to be more snake oil like the previous systems. To upgrade to a SWG it was $900 when removing the Fusion 2. I would spend twice that lol. A SWG is so much easier to maintain (and cheaper in the long run). I know you are trying to cut things but I would highly recommend adding a SWG.

Regarding

• Booster Pump 2.7 HP Jandy E-Pump

Is this for the water features to or just for the cleaner? As others have mentioned go ahead and plumb for one it will be a couple hundred bucks at most but if this is just for the cleaner you can ditch this and be close to the cost difference for the SWG.

buddyleex said:

Thats so much Rebuke, Nectarologist, JoyfulNoise and Jim. Good input to a new/first-time pool owner. I'd really love to have the spa but optimally I don't see it being used more than a couple of times a month in the colder winter/fall days. Not to mention the cost of heating it up in the winter is apparently very expensive. It's obviously the largest amount price wise I can subtract off the quote. I'm leaning towards removing the spa and subsequent heater, pump, plumbing/etc. Will also go to #3-10", remove the umbrella sleeves, and possibly go to standard hammered edging on the coping depending on the cost savings. I think with these changes I can justify upgrading the tanning shelf width and keep the water features. Last thing should be making sure an actual SWCG is on the quote/item list and remove the nature2 fusion system.

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It cost me $12/hour to use my spa on propane and we usually only run it a couple hours at the most. With natural gas it would be a lot cheaper.

Oh and on the Fusion there is a version called "soft" that says it is a salt sanitizer but that one was not what my PB uses and I am not 100% that it is a true SWG.

Edit: I just read up on the Fusion Soft and it does look like it is a SWG with "mineral sanitizing" as well. I think I would still just go with a SWG unless there was a significant cost reason not to.

buddyleex said:

Thats so much Rebuke, Nectarologist, JoyfulNoise and Jim. Good input to a new/first-time pool owner. I'd really love to have the spa but optimally I don't see it being used more than a couple of times a month in the colder winter/fall days. Not to mention the cost of heating it up in the winter is apparently very expensive. It's obviously the largest amount price wise I can subtract off the quote. I'm leaning towards removing the spa and subsequent heater, pump, plumbing/etc. Will also go to #3-10", remove the umbrella sleeves, and possibly go to standard hammered edging on the coping depending on the cost savings. I think with these changes I can justify upgrading the tanning shelf width and keep the water features. Last thing should be making sure an actual SWCG is on the quote/item list and remove the nature2 fusion system.

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I would suggest a heater with any pool. At the very least, if you don’t want to purchase the heater now, make sure that the equipment pad is setup for a heater in the future. For a gas heater you need a properly spec’d gas line run from your meter to your pad. If you think you might go with a heat pump then you need a dedicated 240V/60Amp circuit run to your pad. You also want to make sure your plumbing has a loop for the heater so that it can easily get plumbed in. Heater is after the filter but before the SWG.

I like my spillover spa. I have had a standalone spa and the pool connected spa is larger and easier to maintain. If I maintain the pool the spa water takes care of itself. Over a season I probably use the spa more then the pool with the spa usable when it is too cool to heat the full pool.

On equipment - Get the Aqualink RS6 or RS8 and not the RS4. Especially if you get the spillover spa as you will lose one AUX button to control SPILLOVER mode. If you run out of AUX buttons for your needs it requires a CPU replacement to expand the Aqualink.

I would delete the bubblers and sheers.

Rebar specifications should come from your pool engineering plans. Especially if you are in an area of Texas with expansive soil. It is not something you should decide to downgrade.

You can use the Nature2 Fusion2 SWG if you do not install the mineral cartridge. Read - Nature2 Fusion - Further Reading

As someone else said get incandescent pool lights and then install a color LED bulb in them. All the color pool LED lights have poor reliability and will be money pits.

I would not get the Jandy E-Pumps that do not have a control panel on the pump.

buddyleex said:

@ajw22 why would you need a control panel for the pumps? I'm assuming in case there is an issue with the network?

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Diagnostic purposes. Pump does not start. Is it the pump? The Aqualink box? The network? Jandy servers? If you can run the pump from its control panel then you know the pump is good. Otherwise you are left with a complex puzzle.

And if one of those components is causing problems you can run your pool from the pump controls while you figure out what the problem is.

iAqualink has a bunch of moving parts and when it stops working properly it can take some troubleshooting to find the cause.

I understand all too well how it feels to see the astronomical prices the pool builders put out there. I am currently in the middle of a new build and the quotes I saw were crazy. However, I had to either accept that this is what it’s going to cost or just not do it.

First and foremost, your pool/backyard design is important. How you want your space to look and what features you want should be in your design. I was not initially sure what I wanted and how I wanted it. However, as I started the process and saw the different designs from different builders and reading about all of the features one can have, I began to formulate a clearer picture of what I wanted. Well, I should say of what my wife wanted. This took us a year to figure out. However, it was a worthwhile endeavor and I am glad we took the time.

I believe that you create your budget and then go after what it is that you want. I would not try to overly skimp on important things like rebar. Follow the engineering plans as suggested by another poster. Good materials to build your pool are important.

I changed from the Polaris 280 blower to the robot you are purchasing. They are more expensive, but most folks here recommended the robot so I went for it. I will say that I too am having the LED niche-less lights installed and I am concerned about them because lots of people here have had problems with them. I will be talking with my PB about them tomorrow since they are not installed as of yet.

As far as having a spa or not, well I have a connected spa to my pool. I had a spa connected to my pool in California and I used it year round. I can see me using it year round here in Texas. It all depends on you and how you will use your pool. I would purchase based on how you would use your pool and not how it will be used by your friends and neighbors coming over. If you would use the spa regularly, then get it. If you are not a spa type person, then don’t spend the money.

Bubblers are superfluous and not needed but a nice to have. We have umbrella sleeves around our pool deck and spa because we get a lot of sun in the pool area during the day. You can reduce your decking to the minimum if that’s your desire, but again your design for your backyard and what you want will determine how much decking you’d like.

Good luck. I hope you have a great experience!

Mcow said:

I am the rare exception here apparently but I actually love my attached spa.

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I'll join you in support of the gunite spa, as we use ours weekly in the winter. A couple of key points:
- We designed our spa to easily see the outdoor tv from all seats. Without this, we probably would use it a fraction of the time.
- You have a 400k BTU heater, which is good. Mine heats up in under 30 mins, and the cost is minimal. I figured it up one time and weekly usage of the spa in winter added ~$40 per month.
- A gunite spa is not a therapeutic spa, so if you are looking for it to be more than a warm place to sit maybe with 1 spinny jet on your back, go with a fiberglass spa. With that said, my spa is great for sore muscles and I sleep like a baby afterward which is enough therapy for me.

JJ_Tex said:

I'll join you in support of the gunite spa, as we use ours weekly in the winter. A couple of key points:
- We designed our spa to easily see the outdoor tv from all seats. Without this, we probably would use it a fraction of the time.
- You have a 400k BTU heater, which is good. Mine heats up in under 30 mins, and the cost is minimal. I figured it up one time and weekly usage of the spa in winter added ~$40 per month.
- A gunite spa is not a therapeutic spa, so if you are looking for it to be more than a warm place to sit maybe with 1 spinny jet on your back, go with a fiberglass spa. With that said, my spa is great for sore muscles and I sleep like a baby afterward which is enough therapy for me.

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A TV outside is one of the best additions to a yard given the cost (pool is better but $$$, haha). I love watching concerts and sports outside.