Replacement Pool Equipment

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J

jngconsults

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Dec 3, 2016
11
Chandler/AZ
Pool Size
10000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Finally rebuilding our 24 year old plaster pool and upgrading to Micropebble and resurfacing the deck. We have a 10k gallon rectangular play pool with a Paramount PCC2000 in-floor cleaning system, that works great. We have an ancient Hayward AquaRite salt system, old sand filter, 2- 1HP single speed pumps for the pop-ups and filter, light and no water features/heaters etc. Between the pump, Salt Cell and plumbing I always seem to have issues popping up. We have a new misting system that I can control externally or tie into a relay if it made sense (it doesn't need to be tied into the controller, but could be...).

We're planning to replace the pumps, switch to a Cartridge filter (Pentair Clean and Clear plus 420 or Hayward Swimclear 425) replace the salt generator and switch to a color LED light. While full automation would be cool, it's really the light that we'd want to automate as it's a pain to switch on and off the current light and I know the family will want to mess with the colors. On our current system, I change the timer a few times a year, check/clean the baskets, check /clean the salt cell and make sure the chemistry is right and salt levels appropriate, manually...

I have had several quotes, all attacking our simple pool from multiple angles. 2 with Pentair equipment and another with Hayward (which complicates my decision!). One company recommends 2 Intelliflo VSF (011056)'s, the Intellicenter I5P with IC40 and the Intellibright 5g. Another says we should use an SuperFlo 342001 for the pop-ups, Intelliflo I2 011060 for the filter, the Easy Touch Light and to keep the current Salt system. The Hayward side seems to recommend the Tri-Star 950 for the filter and to possible keep the PCC2000 on the original pump (unless they missed a pump in the quote and haven't gotten back to me with an answer!), they didn't quote a controller with automation.

Naturally there is a pretty good spread on pricing. So...

1. Are the 2-Intelliflo VSF's overkill for the pool and pop-up system?
2. When tying in a new Salt system and Pentair pumps, am I being short sighted in thinking I could keep it all manual and get the Light controller / app for the light?
3. Does the Easy Touch make any sense if the Salt controller needs to be separate? Is there any benefit to going that route without the screenlogic or does it only make sense to have the screenlogic or do I move to the Intellicenter which feels like it's way to beefy for my situation.
4. Should I be looking more seriously at the Hayward options? (yes I know... Chevy vs Ford). I've had the Hayward stuff for the 17 years I've lived at the house and really don't know if the Salt and pump issues have been a Hayward thing or just the age...
5. Automation doesn;t scare me (I have Home Assistant and am making my home smarter) but just not sure I need it for salt and pump control...
6. As you can see, my head is spinning and I don;t want to be short-sighted since we plan to be in this house a long time and saving a few bucks now, might not be the right thing to do.

Thanks in advance for any constructive input on any or all of this project!
 
Welcome to TFP.

Dump your old Aquarite system. A new Pentair IntelliChlor system will be much more reliable.

Do not get an EasyTouch Lite system. The EasyTouch Lite PL4/PSL4 is not recommended because only comes with 4 schedules/programs and only 1 or 2 feature circuits, no load center, etc. The PL4/PSL4 does not have a Load Center for circuit breakers and is a cheap intimation of the real thing.

With the EasyTouch Lite you can only have 4 schedules/programs/egg-timers and run-once items and that includes any egg-timer that is not set at the default of 12 hours. Unfortunately, ScreenLogic will allow you to enter a billion schedules, but the EasyTouch can't use them.

None of the EasyTouch lite versions come with the built-in IntelliClor SWCG power center.

Lite boards come with a jumper wire on the J23/Modtelspa port. Snip that off, and provided you've got a later firmware it won't be a Lite anymore.

If you do get an EasyTouch system then ScreenLogic makes managing the system so much easier.

I would go with the 2 Intelliflo VSF (011056)'s, the Intellicenter I5P with IC40 and the Intellibright 5g.

I warn you that pool color LED lights have terrible reliability. So plan on replacing them every few years.

Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair LED Pool Lights - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
Thanks for the input! Definitely leaning towards the 2 Intelliflo VSF (011056)'s, the Intellicenter I5P with IC40 and the Intellibright 5g and not losing sleep on the upfront cost vs functionality.
 
With the size and simplicity of my pool what would I really lose if I went manual with a stand alone IC40 install and only remote automation for the light as a standalone as well? Not sure the $3 - $5k, installed, for the Easy Touch/Intellicenter options will gain me that much. What am I missing that makes saving that money and going manual a short-sighted idea?
 
Just a thought...

I'm not sure how in-floor cleaning systems operate, but if you plumb one of the existing single speed pumps to the system, you could save some money and automate using the IntelliConnect controller. It will control the IntelliFlo and IntelliChlor via RS-485 connections. The IFCS pump and light would connect to the IntelliConnect relays. The IntelliConnect doesn't control automated valves, but you likely have no need for that feature.

I had my pool built without automation. I regretted that decision and eventually added automated control.
 
Jng…I am probably reading this wrong, but why are there two pumps in your system with no water features and no spa? Your PCC2000 IFCS should run on one pump (higher RPM) with all water sent through the filter…that same pump should then be used for skimming at a lower RPM. Can you post some pictures of your pad area?
 
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I'll post a picture, but my understanding is that the PCC2000 in-floor does not work well in a single pump system. Not exactly sure why, but all 3 pool contractors and Paramount did not recommend using a single pump. On another note, with the reliability issues on the LED lights, has anyone just replaced their incandescent bulb with an LED pool bulb? Seems that even if they last a year, it would take over 10 years to make up the cost difference.
 
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jngconsults said:
With the size and simplicity of my pool what would I really lose if I went manual with a stand alone IC40 install and only remote automation for the light as a standalone as well? Not sure the $3 - $5k, installed, for the Easy Touch/Intellicenter options will gain me that much. What am I missing that makes saving that money and going manual a short-sighted idea?
Click to expand...

Pentair has a new pump that is powerful enough for your IFCS and includes 2 relays to control lights etc. The User's Guide will show you the automation possibilities via the phone app.

 
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jngconsults said:
I'll post a picture, but my understanding is that the PCC2000 in-floor does not work well in a single pump system. Not exactly sure why, but all 3 pool contractors and Paramount did not recommend using a single pump.
Click to expand...

Yeah probably right…the PCC2000 is the only IFCS that claims to sweep debris towards the drain and after looking at it more closely, I see why: they seem to have a series of ALWAYS-ON jets that form a zone to facilitate that “sweeping”. Because the remaining IFCS popups must still be fed with enough pump pressure, a 2nd pump must be required to do that sweeping. Both pumps must have to be run simultaneously for IFCS cleaning?

The one thing I personally would consider is a method to do your low RPM skimming/chlorinating…this method would probably only use one of the pumps so you could save the cost of running both pumps all the time. But in the overall scheme of building/maintaining a pool, the monthly electricity costs sometimes are not enough for many to worry about.
 
Thanks for everyone's help! I confirmed the need for the second pump for the PCC as mentioned above. It's worked really well for the 17 years I've been at the house, so that setup will stay and I'll probably go with the 2 Intelliflo's, a standalone IC40, new filter and an LED bulb. I can always add automation later, if necessary. Now that I'm starting to use Home Assistant, I may get to a point to dabble with my own connection/automation...
 

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guinness said:
If you get the new Intelliflo3 you get automation built-in.
Click to expand...

I would say the Intelliflo3 has "limited" automation.

www.pentair.com

IntelliFlo3® VSF Pool Pump

The Intelliflo3 VSF pool pump includes auto regulating flow technology, energy savings, and superior performance for crystal clear water.
www.pentair.com www.pentair.com

You get two high-voltage terminals capable of controlling pool lights, salt chlorine generators, booster pumps or other filtration system components. One terminal is intended for 5A max low current connections and the other for 16A max high current connections.

And you can get the IO Board which gives wireless connection to the Pentair Home app which is dependent on going through the Pentair servers if on WiFi or within bluetooth range of the pump for direct connection.
 
The Intelliflo3 with I/O seems like it would give me a bit of automation and will allow me to control the second pump and my Salt Cell. Checking with the contractor, now to see how the pricing changes with the Intelliflo3 and removing the IC40 Power Generator. Anyone have experience with the Intelliflo3 since it is so new? I've seen a few threads, but nothing with an outright experience on using it...
 
It seems I can connect the IC40 directly to the relay on the I/O board of the Intelliflo3. Seems that I won't need the additional power generator unless I'm missing something. Waiting to hear from my contractor about all of this...
 
jngconsults said:
It seems I can connect the IC40 directly to the relay on the I/O board of the Intelliflo3. Seems that I won't need the additional power generator unless I'm missing something. Waiting to hear from my contractor about all of this...
Click to expand...

You still need the IntelliChlor Power Center which will be powered through the IntelliFlo3 relay. The IC40 cell connects to the Power Center.
 
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Gotcha... so the connection is just for scheduling and communicating, not powering the cell. While it doesn;t cut that part of the expense, it still seems this may be the best way to go for my situation. Hoping to get my pricing today so I can make my final decisions and get on the schedule for a November start...
 
jngconsults said:
Gotcha... so the connection is just for scheduling and communicating, not powering the cell.
Click to expand...

The relay in the Intelliflo3 just controls 120V power to the Intellichlor Power Center box. The cell plugs into the Power Center and any communication is done between the Power Center box and the cell or automation. The Power Center powers the cell with 24V-40V DC power.
 
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