conversion from a Pentair Challenger 1.5 to Pentair VS SuperFlow issues

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MikeLikesPools

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2021
61
DFW
Pool Size
20000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
I was enticed by my local leslies pool company to install a pentair VS superflow for the energy savings. I'm doing everything but saving right now:(. Everything was working fine prior to install, after install Ive had nothing but trouble with my pool. I had leslies install the pool pump and since then Ive battled high filter pressure and low flow (12-15GPM vs when it's working is around 40-45GPM). I know because I have a flow gauge installed and I can tell by the speed of the water coming out of the water feature. My filter pressure is sitting at ~20lbs at 3000rpm w/15GPM on the gauge my baseline pressure is ~8lbs at 3000RPM when working correctly).

When the installer put the pump in initially it had a leak in the union joint on the pressure side (didn't catch till a few weeks after install) which seemed to be resulting in high pressure on the DE filter (~20-25lbs @3000rpm with a baseline of 8lbs at 3000RPM) and low flow. Before he came back I also cleaned/recharged the filter thinking maybe that might be causing the problem along with the leak so before he came back did my season cleaning of the Pentair FNS Plus filter. The LP guy wanted to clean inspect filter also to ensure I did everything correctly suspecting that might be causing the pressure issue in addition to leak so I let him also cleaned/inspect it which he said I did it correctly and the filter components / manifold were in good shape. Everything seemed to be fine and working correctly after he corrected the union joint problem but he didn't actually change out the union joint he just cleaned up the threading. My understanding was some of the glue from the joint above it dripped down on the threading and that's actually what caused the problem with the Union joint on the pressure side. He did not replumb it just use some type of glue cleaner and said "oh it's not leaking now so we don't have to replace it out". I was satisfied that it was fixed this because I noticed that the gallons per minute were way higher on my gauge (45GPM @ 3000RPM vs 15GPM @ 3000GPM when broken) then they had been since he's installed it but 3 days later my problem has resurfaced.

The only thing that I did from the time he left when it was working and the time it stopped working properly again is I cleaned/emptied the pump basket. When I remove the basket, because he braced the pump on this rock it's not very sturdy. I heard kinda like a scrape sound and the plumbing/pump somewhat moves when I take the basket off. Yes no leaks, but I suspect this should not happen if it is on a level surface and that shift could be causing a leak in the pressure side (but not seeing any water is that possible??) I really really hate the design of this new basket, it takes a decent amount of force to take it off versus my pentair challenger.

Things I checked:

-Skimmer baskets are clean and nothing is blocking them
-Skimmer doors are removed not gasping for air and clear of obstruction
-Not getting DE in the pool from jets, no air bubbles in jets
-I dont see any leaks on pressure or suction side
-Inspected the pump lid for debris on the o-ring and it's on flush with pool lube
-Inspected pump plugs to make sure they were tight and snug
-When pressure is high I try the pressure relief valve and no air is in in the tank
-Water levels are appropriate and not low

Anyways, this Monday I had my chlorine levels checked (prior to cleaning the pump basket) and they were perfect 2.87~ on FAC / Chlorine all other stuff in normal except my calcium is high (500ppm) which I think is related to my water in the area. Today is my normal pool cleaning day so I went ahead and check the water. I noticed the water feature was running too low again and sure enough I'm seeing the pump basket has water partially filled at the top. It seems to do this at low RPM? I run it at 1900RPM for about 10hours, 3000 for 6hours and 2400 for 8hours which worked fine for 3 days before I removed pump basket lid) and I'm back to where I started last week, low flow and high pressure. I've been managing this pool over a year so I'm pretty familiar with where I need to be chemical wise and unfortunately since this has been installed my chlorine usage has skyrocketed due to low flow. Any help would be great!

Pictures are here:

https://imgur.com/a/y5Gxtpj
 
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Mike,

It is highly unlikely that your new pump has anything to do with your problem.

Filter pressure is really the amount of effort it takes to force water through the filter. High filter pressure is usually due to a dirty filter. I suspect that you have algae, even if you can't see it yet. A DE filter can clog in a matter of a day or less if you have algae. Algae would also account for your increased chlorine use.

Tell us how you are chlorinating your pool

And tell us the following readings:

FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
2lbs of shock and 3tabs weekly or as needed especially since i got new pump im checking more frequently until i get the proper turnover rate dialed in. Currently in 24hours when its working correctly my pump will filter 40800gallons of water. My previous single speed pumped around 38000 in 12hours. I check baskets daily. in response to what you said about it not being the pump, I dont think the pump itself is the problem i think the plumbing job and placement on that rock with the movement of the pump + the lack of replacing the union threading. After he worked on union joint on pressure side i was getting 55GPM-60GPM @ 3450RPM, once i took the pump basket lid off i barely get 30GPM. When I did the removal the plumbing and the pump shifted, that doesnt seem like it should do that my previous pump didnt move.
 
You're comparing two different types of pumps. The Challenger was, most likely, a high-head pump capable of moving about 95gpm at 40 ft. of head. If, by chance, it was their "High-Flow" model it could move over 100gpm at the same head.
Your SuperFlo VSP is a medium-head pump capable of moving about 60gpm at the same head. You will see different pressures.
 
So here's the definition of insanity to take that picture obviously I opened up my filter and then resealed it he was the last person who resealed my filter. I noticed that when he resealed the filter the spring clamp pieces werent touching now Im getting 50gpm I expect? Am I on crack? the filter was leaking?
 

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1poolman1 said:
You're comparing two different types of pumps. The Challenger was, most likely, a high-head pump capable of moving about 95gpm at 40 ft. of head. If, by chance, it was their "High-Flow" model it could move over 100gpm at the same head.
Your SuperFlo VSP is a medium-head pump capable of moving about 60gpm at the same head. You will see different pressures.
Click to expand...
 

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MikeLikesPools said:
So here's the definition of insanity to take that picture obviously I opened up my filter and then resealed it he was the last person who resealed my filter. I noticed that when he resealed the filter the spring clamp pieces werent touching now Im getting 50gpm I expect? Am I on crack? the filter was leaking?
Click to expand...
Your flow meter is going to give you very strange readings because of the installation. Based on your 2" plumbing, it is supposed to have 10" of straight pipe in front of it, 4" after, and it should be vertically "level."
 
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also the pressure expectations i had were based on the baseline taken after i cleaned and recharged the filter after it primed with the new pump not using the old pump expectations
 

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Rancho Cost-a-Lotta said:
When you opened it to take the pic, did you clean the grids and recharge DE?
Click to expand...
No, this would be the second time in less than a week that was done, once by myself and once by the Leslies tech. Heres the weird thing issue was fine till it overnight which moves to a 1900RPM cycle. Checked this morning it appears Im getting air on the suction. Im only getting one or two bubbles a minute so not sure if the hose detection trick will work. Is it possible the lower rpm causes a small leak to be worse and the higher speed is able to clear the air from basket? when it goes to lower rpm the problem seems to ramp up. Problem is back now i have air in top of my basket and the high pressure low flow issue again on the filter.
 
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MikeLikesPools said:
Is it possible the lower causes a small leak to be worse and the higher speed is able to clear the air from it?
Click to expand...

Yes. I'm fighting a suction side leak now. At high speed, I'm sure it is pulling air, I just don't see it, clears quickly. When I go back to slow speed (1400), I get a slowly building air bubble in the pump.
 
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You have two separate issues. You should read @Jimrahbe response to you, post 2. Your best and most likely culprit on the filter pressure. How are you testing? I might suggest that you order a test kit if you don't have one. Test Kits Compared

Download PoolMath and use it to add 5ppm of liquid chlorine a day until you get your test kit. As Jim said, you likely have algae. Adding 5ppm will at least keep it at bay until you have a test kit.

IF you have a test kit, AND the numbers you showed are accurate, you will want to do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test to see if you have algae.

IF you DON'T have a test kit, wait for it to do anything other than adding 5ppm.

On the suction side leak, here are the likely culprits:
Pump lid o-ring
Pump drain o-rings (2)
o-rings in the never lube valves (3 o-rings per)
Pump shaft seal (Not likely on a new pump, but possible).

If you decide to change out o-rings, use a silicone grease like Magic Lube II. Don't use Magic Lube it has pTFE. Use the Magic lube II (2).

Welcome to TFP!!!
 
For fun I turned off the system, opened the backwash valve and pressure relief let all the water drain but didnt run pump. After some water drained out and stopped I closed backwash valve turned system on and high pressure/low flow is gone.
 
MikeLikesPools said:
For fun I turned off the system, opened the backwash valve and pressure relief let all the water drain but didnt run pump. After some water drained out and stopped I closed backwash valve turned system on and high pressure/low flow is gone.
Click to expand...
And I will bet you that your high pressure/low flow will return after your pump and filter run a while.

What you did in that experiment was let the DE slump down in your filter which shook up the algae that coated the DE and blocked the flow.

As folks have been telling you, you have an algae and water chemistry problem and not an equipment problem.

Our fix for that is having the proper test kit and then following the SLAM Process.
 
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MikeLikesPools said:
Ive never had this problem before you cant visually see these beasts?
Click to expand...

Not in the early stages where algae is in the pool but your chlorine is enough to keep it from blooming to green, but not enough to totally eradicate the algae.

The fix is to get a truly algae free pool by following the SLAM Process
 
so im a obviously a newbie here, going to pick up some liquid chlorine from the pool store and Im pressed for time (leaving town next week) to order the 2006c online but i can get the 2006 from the store also which should be enough right just has less tests? Im going to pool school and reading about sanitizer and such, should I go ahead and remove the tablets I have in the pool before i put in the LC?
 

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