Pool not to contract depth

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So I deal with this constantly as I build wall panel pools. The plans always show depth to top of the wall not water depth. A 72" pool is actually 67ish. My overflows are in the skimmer amd it's at 3/4 high on face of skimmer when full. When doing deep end it's best to round down to half feet so call this pool 5.6" water depth

Now I dont know how much the depth means to you, but the cheap way is to remove skimmer amd raise it up a few inches, patch the shell, and add to the bond beam with a new pour and raise the grade a little. Usually do able on most properties where pool is stand alone in yard. If its tieing into existing stuff then not gonna work
 
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I think the post above about water depth as it related to diving is the most important one.

But aside form that, I would look at the permit. How does it define depth? Is it directly called out the method? And when they come ask why they submitted a permit for the incorrect height? Get them to explain in detail the 6 inch variance as submitted and how coudl they submit a permit that did not match their own contract, regardless of how depth is measured.
 
So Jimmy (a pool builder) is confirming what the OP's PB told him. Depth is spec'd as top of wall to bottom of pool, contradicting my notions about this issue. He's a builder, I'm not.

It seems inconceivable to me that a PB would not have discussions with a customer about water depth, and indicate in the contract the water depth. If for no other reason than to avoid unhappy customers.

Were there a set of plans (engineering drawings), with dimensions called out, submitted to the local planning/building dept? Is there a set of plans attached to the contract?
 
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There’s no drawing attached to the plan. Only the one that’s part of the permit.
 

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Killfathobbit said:
They stated the depth is bottom of the pool to the top of the wall.
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Here's some more possible ammo for you, that I spotted on the plans: the sunshelf.

I don't know what "top of the wall" means. The top of the finished pool? Including the deck?

Take a measurement between the top of the sunshelf and midway up the skimmer. Do the same between the shallow end and midway up the skimmer.

If you get 9" and 36" respectively, then that would prove that the PB was using "depth" to mean water depth.

If you get 9" and 36" to the "top of the wall," then that would prove his point, that depth means something other than water depth.

Be sure to compensate for the thickness of the finish (1/2" to 1" I would think) and the coping, if that is part of the definition of "top of the wall."

Since "top of the wall" and water level seem to be about 6" apart, it's ridiculous to assert that you or the PB intended to build a 3" deep sunshelf! IMO, depth on the submitted plans meant water depth, and the PB, for whatever reason, submitted, without getting a written "OK" from you, a set of plans that deviated in deep-end depth from the contract. If his crew built a sunshelf with 9" of water over it, and a shallow end with 36" of water over it, and a deep end with 5'6" of water over it, then they followed the submitted plans and the plans were submitted wrong (your original premise).

More to the point, depending on how the sunshelf and the shallow end measure out, they will determine the PB's true definition of "depth." He can't have it both ways, where a 9" deep sunshelf and a 3' deep shallow end mean something different than a 6' deep deep-end!
 
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I’ll check the sun shelf depth after work and unfortunately I don’t know anyone else that used them to build but he was recommended by the neighbor so I can ask him if he knows anyone.
 
We use a 3 page drawing showing the pool from the top, the short side, amd the long side, both side views. Must be signed by customer on each page. He should have discussed water depth and build depth. This is a little different than what I do as I use premade walls. A concrete pool is custom so any depth can be achieved.
 
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jimmythegreek said:
We use a 3 page drawing showing the pool from the top, the short side, amd the long side, both side views. Must be signed by customer on each page. He should have discussed water depth and build depth. This is a little different than what I do as I use premade walls. A concrete pool is custom so any depth can be achieved.
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I don’t think Jimmy’s comment is really relevant. Jimmy is describing what depth means in his plans and he gives the customer a set of Plans (which he must initial) showing him exactly what he means by depth. The OP only has a signed contract and the word “depth” should be construed to be water depth. That’s the only logical conclusion, as no reasonable person would assume otherwise. When a customer tells a builder that he wants a shallow end of 4 feet, he means water depth. When a builder puts in a contract that the depth is 6 feet, it will be construed as water depth. Seems pretty obvious to me.
 
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Its not that logical really, that's why this always comes up on TFP. When something is built the structure is measured. In a pool it's obvious it will hold water but the depth is the pools depth as a structure. Where the water ends up doesnt change the structure. I agree 100% with everyone that it's ridiculous to not assume water depth but on my side of the building process nobody talks about water depth just the structure itself. The majority of pools built end up shallower than anticipated by the owner. This site is a very small percentage of pool ownership and even less with builds
 
Oh how I wish you'd have posted before the build. We could have then reminded you to clarify water depth vs wall height. This isn't an unheard of problem.
And knowing that you're so tall I would have said- go deeper! go deeper! A 7 or 8' pool gives you depth to dive and swim around in.
I hope the PB will show some compensation, even token, for the clumsy contract not spelling it out better.
Keep us posted on what happens.

Maddie :flower:
 
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I had this issue with my first pool build. It blows my mind that anyone that builds pools wouldnt be aware of this misconception with consumers. There is also the issue that if you have a sports pool, the max depth is just a sliver so the pool is even shallower than you imagine.

We resolved some of this by keeping the water level as high as possible. I agree that you might be able to build the bond beam up 6 inches and raise the skimmers. There is little pressure there and it would be mostly out of the water anyway.
 
sktn77a said:
Pool Builders always appear to error on the short side - I've seen many complaints that the pool wasn't dug deep enough but I don't remember ever seeing one where the pool was too deep!
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Same for a lot of problems: follow the money...
 
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I'm with Jimmy on this one, while at the same time I understand the consumers questioning the water depth. Look at any fiberglass pool dimension and almost all will show dimensions, in this case depth, of the wall.........not water depth. We build or install structures and sometimes get caught up in that, which is why we deal with wall dimensions. We have to worry about deck height, proper drainage away from the pool, dig depth, keeping any deck steps within the safety specs, etc. We spend 90% of our time thinking about those things, which require knowing wall height, not water depth. I suppose a PERFECT pool builder will always remember to explain to people that our depth measurements are 6" (usually) less than any dimension you'll see. Heck, on a fiberglass pool the width is DOT width, which is a full 1' of water less than any dimension you'll read. In other words, there are a ton of other factors that come into talking about pool dimensions and water is simply one of them.
 
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Guys in the industry here that are commenting, I just wanted to ask your opinion on the plans not matching the contract? In my mind, contract says 6', plans say 5.5'... to me, this isn't a communication mishap, it's deeper (no pun intended) than that. The Contractor is using tolerance and misnomer about what depth really means to cover for an error on the plans in my opinion.
 
CPS Reno said:
I'm with Jimmy on this one
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Are you? Even he states "I agree 100% with everyone that it's ridiculous to not assume water depth." Randy, I appreciate that you guys have a lot to consider when using dimensions. And that those numbers can mean different things to different people, even to you depending on what you're working on. But so what. Consumers shouldn't be responsible for sorting that out. That's your job. And to neglect to fully explain, indicate and document, within the contract, the exact water depth dimensions, is negligence (IMO). Heck, for your own protection you guys should be doing that.

Jimmy goes on to say "The majority of pools built end up shallower than anticipated by the owner." Uh, what? Is that an excuse to continue to disappoint consumers, because it happens all the time? Not to mention the impact such practices would have on your reputation and reviews? Makes no sense. Ridding the industry of this seemingly "common" occurrence is such a simple thing, costs you nothing, and potentially could save you 10s of thousands of dollars and a disgruntled customer. You'd be one step closer to being "a PERFECT pool builder."
 
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