First Pool - Opened with pool store two weeks ago and NOW found TFP. Help Please

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Yeeper

Yeeper

Gold Supporter
May 16, 2018
109
New York
Pool Size
30000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
First time pool maintenance.

Opened it with the local pool store two weeks ago and was committed to learning how to do it myself. But because I found TFP too late, I bought all of my chemicals from the pool store when they were running a special earlier this year. Bulked up on everything I thought Id need for the season. Wish I knew better.

So I have all BioGuard products, a nice pile. Super Soluble, Silk Guard sticks, Silk Guard Complete, Balance pak, Algae Complete (2) , pool complete (2) , and smart shock (2) boxes.

Problem is, now I'm reading everything I SHOULD have known here on TFP. Info is great, but I need some help.

Read up on the Pool School. Its a huge help.

Bought a TF-100 test kit. its on the way.

Trying to get a hold of Marina out in CO to purchase an S200 but they haven't picked up their phone all day and left a message.

Pool still isn't clear and balanced yet because I had a mechanical issue I finally sorted out today. Fixed the air leak and pressure issue. I couldn't get the pump running well enough to generate suction to vacuum.

So there is still debris all over the bottom, water has cleared up a lot but still cloudy. No clue what my pool ACTUALLY needs because I'm not trusting the pool store's tests anymore after this site. Will have to wait to test properly.


I'm committed to learning and saving money as a newlywed and new home owner. I just want the pool right for my wife this summer.

So my first big question before the test kit arrives...is all of the BioGuard stuff a waste? Or can I use some of it to get the pool balanced and then switch to the recommended products here?

Thanks all. Looking forward to my first pool season with TFP on my side.

Cheers!
 
Any chance you can return any of that stuff? If you can, do it. If not, you can use that smart shock (if it's trichlor) to chlorinate your pool if your CYA level is well below where it should be. The smart shock (as long as it's not calcium hypochlorite) will increase your CYA with every dosage. You could use it for a while until you hit your CYA target and then switch to liquid chlorine or bleach. Because you have a vinyl liner, calcium hardness (CH) isn't needed, so hopefully that smart shock is not cal hypo, otherwise you'll be increasing your calcium level with every dosage.

Not sure about the rest of the products, but this site generally frowns on using algaecides because they usually contain copper and can stain your pool.
 
Yeeper said:
First time pool maintenance.
I'm committed to learning and saving money as a newlywed and new home owner. I just want the pool right for my wife this summer.
Click to expand...
Congratulations! It will be so much more enjoyable and the pride of knowing *you* made that pool sparkly!

Yeeper said:
So I have all BioGuard products, a nice pile. Super Soluble, Silk Guard sticks, Silk Guard Complete, Balance pak, Algae Complete (2) , pool complete (2) , and smart shock (2) boxes.
So my first big question before the test kit arrives...is all of the BioGuard stuff a waste? Or can I use some of it to get the pool balanced and then switch to the recommended products here?
Click to expand...
If you haven't opened any of that, you should be able to return(exchange) it to the pool store for credit towards liquid chlorine :) Even if their price is "higher" then your other local sources, it will be "usable" spent money ;) (hope that makes sense)

Yeeper said:
Problem is, now I'm reading everything I SHOULD have known here on TFP. Info is great, but I need some help.
Read up on the Pool School. Its a huge help.
Bought a TF-100 test kit. its on the way.
Thanks all. Looking forward to my first pool season with TFP on my side.
Click to expand...
No problems, this is all great info!

Yeeper said:
Pool still isn't clear and balanced yet because I had a mechanical issue I finally sorted out today. Fixed the air leak and pressure issue. I couldn't get the pump running well enough to generate suction to vacuum.
So there is still debris all over the bottom, water has cleared up a lot but still cloudy. No clue what my pool ACTUALLY needs because I'm not trusting the pool store's tests anymore after this site. Will have to wait to test properly.
Click to expand...
Do you know what all has gone into the pool so far?
 
DeanP66 said:
Any chance you can return any of that stuff? If you can, do it. If not, you can use that smart shock (if it's trichlor) to chlorinate your pool if your CYA level is well below where it should be. The smart shock (as long as it's not calcium hypochlorite) will increase your CYA with every dosage. You could use it for a while until you hit your CYA target and then switch to liquid chlorine or bleach. Because you have a vinyl liner, calcium hardness (CH) isn't needed, so hopefully that smart shock is not cal hypo, otherwise you'll be increasing your calcium level with every dosage.

Not sure about the rest of the products, but this site generally frowns on using algaecides because they usually contain copper and can stain your pool.
Click to expand...

OK so I will say that I didn't even think of returning it. I swear my head has been spinning so much and I've been wrapped up in this pool that the most obvious solution escaped me. haha.

I'll take a look at the smart shock composition to see if its useable based on what you've recommended. So its only really beneficial if my CYA is low and I want to protect my chlorine. Otherwise, once its (CYA) stabilized the trichlor will work against me and not worth keeping.


Understood regarding the algicide, and that makes sense.

Man I wish it was as simple as being able to rely on your local pool store. They've been taking care of this pool for almost 30 years when my parents owned it and I was none the wiser. We always anticipated ~$5,000 to operate the pool each Summer but this doesn't seem to have to be the case, and I'm all in now.

Thanks for the help Dean!
 
splashpad said:
Congratulations! It will be so much more enjoyable and the pride of knowing *you* made that pool sparkly!


If you haven't opened any of that, you should be able to return(exchange) it to the pool store for credit towards liquid chlorine :) Even if their price is "higher" then your other local sources, it will be "usable" spent money ;) (hope that makes sense)


No problems, this is all great info!


Do you know what all has gone into the pool so far?
Click to expand...

Yep, useable money makes perfect sense. I'm headed there tomorrow to see about my returns and turning it into their liquid option, if any.

As far as whats gone in already:

Pool Opened May 7th: they added DE, BioGuard Backup 2, BioGuard Pool Opening Complete, 5lbs BioGuard Quick Shock.

Since then they've had me:

Shock the pool twice with 7lbs of Super Soluble each time. (within the past 2 weeks and in addition to the burnout 3 listed below)

32 oz of Algicide. (1 week ago)

32lbs of Balance Pak 100 (2 days ago)

6lbs of burnout 3 (2 days ago)

8 oz Algicide (2 days ago)

8 oz Pool Complete (2 days ago)

12 lbs of Diatomaceous earth total, 6lbs each time though. I backwashed and cleaned the filter in between. This was my biggest issue and why I wasn't getting good pressure. Yesterday I finally read up here on TFP the process and lubed and put a new gasket on my pump basket lid/container. Then took apart the filter and cleaned the elements and it FINALLY started working perfectly.

Not running my heater yet, and to be honest we may not use it this summer so we can save some money.


Pretty sure thats it. Eagerly waiting my test kit.

Thanks!

- - - Updated - - -

Update, just read the packaging.

The Burnout 3 I used two days ago is Calcium Hypochlorite 57%, and 42% "other stuff."

The Smart Shock is actually Sodium dichlor-s-triazinetrione 63%, 0.73% Copper citrate, and "36% other stuff."
 
$5000? Yikes!!! If that was the case, you will be saving a ton of money, especially if you get a variable speed pump. Mine paid for itself in barely 6 months time, and I didn't even need a new one because my single speed was only 3 years old. Once I saw the savings, I couldn't justify not getting one. You will find that once you get your pool balanced, the only thing you will be buying is liquid chlorine and muriatic acid to control the pH rise that tends to happen when you don't chlorinate with tablets or pucks.

And if you run your CYA on the high end of the recommended range (50-60), you'll find that your chlorine will tend to last a bit longer and not get burned off by the sun so quickly. This is especially useful if you have hot summers.

Avoid using any more Burnout 3 and Smart Shock until after you get your test kit and run all the tests so you're not adding to any possible problems. CYA and calcium can only be lowered by replacing water (i.e. draining some and refilling). Also, be sure to test your fill water for pH, TA, and CH so you know what you have in store for you if you have to drain some.

Discontinue using that algaecide as well. You don't need it. It's more of a preventative than a cure. The only time I've used it was when I was doing a stain treatment and I had to let my FC drop near 0. At that point, the water is much more susceptible to getting an algae outbreak, so I put in some to be safe. Don't use it for everyday use. It's not necessary.
 
I already like you!! You have a good head on your shoulders and are willing to learn! Good job getting the test kit on the way!

I will be following along to make sure things are going in the right direction. You already have some good helpers on here---Thanks EVERYONE! :hug:

Kim:kim:
 
DeanP66 said:
$5000? Yikes!!! If that was the case, you will be saving a ton of money, especially if you get a variable speed pump. Mine paid for itself in barely 6 months time, and I didn't even need a new one because my single speed was only 3 years old. Once I saw the savings, I couldn't justify not getting one. You will find that once you get your pool balanced, the only thing you will be buying is liquid chlorine and muriatic acid to control the pH rise that tends to happen when you don't chlorinate with tablets or pucks.

And if you run your CYA on the high end of the recommended range (50-60), you'll find that your chlorine will tend to last a bit longer and not get burned off by the sun so quickly. This is especially useful if you have hot summers.

Avoid using any more Burnout 3 and Smart Shock until after you get your test kit and run all the tests so you're not adding to any possible problems. CYA and calcium can only be lowered by replacing water (i.e. draining some and refilling). Also, be sure to test your fill water for pH, TA, and CH so you know what you have in store for you if you have to drain some.

Discontinue using that algaecide as well. You don't need it. It's more of a preventative than a cure. The only time I've used it was when I was doing a stain treatment and I had to let my FC drop near 0. At that point, the water is much more susceptible to getting an algae outbreak, so I put in some to be safe. Don't use it for everyday use. It's not necessary.
Click to expand...

Yea man, you're telling me. But they also had it serviced and vacuumed weekly, on top of all of the chemicals from the PS. So I knew I was going to save some coin, but the more I read from you guys the more my heart rate drops hah.

I just re-read the pool school pages and your reply above and I'm already more confident going into this. Going to return the stuff and not do anything till I can test my CYA. I've got my ideal target levels already printed out. I really do appreciate this.

I can't wait to upgrade to a new pump. We could use the energy savings badly. That may be mid summer project.

By the way, you're in CA, go to sleep dude!

- - - Updated - - -

jeffchap said:
$5000, holy smokes!!! If I spend more than $200 I'd be surprised.
Click to expand...

Yep, got 7 years of printouts from the PS to prove it. 4 months of weekly service though, all adds up. Not to mention the new liner and new pump and new heater a few years ago. So I guess I'm super lucky in that regard, new-is equipment.

- - - Updated - - -

kimkats said:
I already like you!! You have a good head on your shoulders and are willing to learn! Good job getting the test kit on the way!

I will be following along to make sure things are going in the right direction. You already have some good helpers on here---Thanks EVERYONE! :hug:

Kim:kim:
Click to expand...

Hah, appreciate that. =)
 
Yeeper said:
Yep, usable money makes perfect sense. I'm headed there tomorrow to see about my returns and turning it into their liquid option, if any.
Not running my heater yet, and to be honest we may not use it this summer so we can save some money.
Click to expand...
You'll be able to "afford" the heater now that you are solidly headed towards TFP!

Yeeper said:
As far as whats gone in already:
Pool Opened May 7th: they added DE, BioGuard Backup 2, BioGuard Pool Opening Complete, 5lbs BioGuard Quick Shock.
Since then they've had me:
Shock the pool twice with 7lbs of Super Soluble each time. (within the past 2 weeks and in addition to the burnout 3 listed below)
32 oz of Algicide. (1 week ago)
32lbs of Balance Pak 100 (2 days ago)
6lbs of burnout 3 (2 days ago)
8 oz Algicide (2 days ago)
8 oz Pool Complete (2 days ago)
12 lbs of Diatomaceous earth total, 6lbs each time though
Click to expand...
There were a few stabilized sources of chlorine added, so no more Stabilizer atm (you will prob need some, but after testing to verify what's currently there, I would recommend CyA/30-40 as your target for later, unless your pool is in intense sun for a long part of the day)
Definitely add Liquid Chlorine daily with a Goal/5 per PoolMath dosage, until your test arrives.
You might have to do a SLAM Process, to "burn out" the extra chemicals (once your test kit arrives), if your pool doesn't pass Overnight Chlorine Loss Test.

Yeeper said:
I backwashed and cleaned the filter in between. This was my biggest issue and why I wasn't getting good pressure. Yesterday I finally read up here on TFP the process and lubed and put a new gasket on my pump basket lid/container. Then took apart the filter and cleaned the elements and it FINALLY started working perfectly.
Click to expand...
Great work!

Yeeper said:
Pretty sure that's it. Eagerly waiting my test kit.
Click to expand...
Just a heads-up, since there was a bit of "extra" stuff added, as you start using just the liquid chlorine (& muriatic acid as needed), you may get some (temporary) cloudiness as the water balances itself (some do, some don't). It's not "bad", just don't get upset =))

Yeeper said:
Update, just read the packaging.
The Burnout 3 I used two days ago is Calcium Hypochlorite 57%, and 42% "other stuff."
The Smart Shock is actually Sodium dichlor-s-triazinetrione 63%, 0.73% Copper citrate, and "36% other stuff."
Click to expand...
So the Burnout 3 wasn't "bad" as far as more CyA, but a vinyl pool does not need extra calcium =)
The smart shock added some CyA, though I don't know the amount straight off-hand

I agree with kimkat, you are a great pool owner! You'll be helping others in no time! (and enjoying a sparkly pool)
 
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Whelp, I think I might be up the creek ::sigh::

While waiting for my test kit to come in I swung by a local PS to see if I can find a CYA test. Only think I found was the test strips at Leslie's Pool Supply.

Rushed home and its bright magenta. Pretty sure its at the 150 mark...and FC is absolutely 0.

CYA 150+

FC 0

pH 7.8

TA 120-180.


I'm hoping these strips aren't accurate but I'm not holding my breath. So mad right now. PS had me shock the heck out of it over the last two weeks. Were they even testing for CYA??

Pool is filled with white foam in the skimmers and white streaks on the surface.

Feeling so defeated.
 
Re: Whelp, I think I might be up the creek ::sigh::

Stop. Breathe. Whatever is going on with your pool can be fixed. Wait for your test kit.

Now quit going to pool stores! You are just getting yourself all worked up.
 
Re: Whelp, I think I might be up the creek ::sigh::

Well, this is a good time to plan how you will be draining/refilling your pool, just in case. Do you have a sump pump? You can buy one or rent one. I suggest buying one as this most likely will be a multiple drain/refill as you have a vinyl liner pool. You can get a sump pump for under $100 from Home Depot, Lowes, Harbor Freight, etc.

Are you on a water well? Do you have to have water trucked in?

Start stocking up on Liquid Chlorine. Look for sales. Be sure it is fresh. Look at the manufacture date on the bottle or box. Be sure it is 18100 or newer (100th day of 2018). Do you have access to bulk chlorine - car boys - etc.

You will need DE as you will backwashing, alot.

Good luck.
 
Re: Whelp, I think I might be up the creek ::sigh::

mknauss said:
Well, this is a good time to plan how you will be draining/refilling your pool, just in case. Do you have a sump pump? You can buy one or rent one. I suggest buying one as this most likely will be a multiple drain/refill as you have a vinyl liner pool. You can get a sump pump for under $100 from Home Depot, Lowes, Harbor Freight, etc.

Are you on a water well? Do you have to have water trucked in?

Start stocking up on Liquid Chlorine. Look for sales. Be sure it is fresh. Look at the manufacture date on the bottle or box. Be sure it is 18100 or newer (100th day of 2018). Do you have access to bulk chlorine - car boys - etc.

You will need DE as you will backwashing, alot.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

Yep will be a process I'm sure. We are not on well, we are on city water. Hose used to be used to fill when level was low due to evaporation or after winter. Only time I ever saw water trucked in was when the liner was replaced years ago.

Sump pump? I was just gonna stick a hose in and then suck on the other end. Voila.

Thank you for the bleach tips, never would have though to look at the date.

Out of curiosity, how do I determine the lowest I can drain this pool because of the vinyl liner?

- - - Updated - - -

kellyfair said:
Stop. Breathe. Whatever is going on with your pool can be fixed. Wait for your test kit.

Now quit going to pool stores! You are just getting yourself all worked up.
Click to expand...

So true. Its too temping to go there. Thank you =)

- - - Updated - - -

jblizzle said:
I am sure they were not testing the CYA ... and may not have even realized what you were adding was also adding CYA.
Click to expand...

:brickwall: how how how? It makes no sense that the online world can offer this simplest advice but the pool stores just ignore that? They tested and they told me what to add. oy
 
Re: Whelp, I think I might be up the creek ::sigh::

How far to drain a vinyl liner pool is how risk averse are you. Some say to the top of the lower step in the shallow end, others no more than 12-18" from the top.

With a high CYA, if you got a sump pump, you could try the slow exchange method. You determine the rate a small sump pump can pull from the deep end (say 7 gpm) while at the same time putting 7 gpm of fresh water in the shallow end. Only works well if your fill water and pool water are about the same temperature. If your fill water is much colder than your pool water, you do the opposite. You put the sump pump in as shallow a water it will operate and you put the fill hose in the deep end at the bottom.

Just a thought ---
 
Re: Whelp, I think I might be up the creek ::sigh::

Yeeper said:
...So mad right now. PS had me shock the heck out of it over the last two weeks. Were they even testing for CYA??
Click to expand...
What type was the shock?

Yeeper said:
Pool is filled with white foam in the skimmers and white streaks on the surface.
Feeling so defeated.
Click to expand...
Can you post a picture of your pool? Is the water otherwise clear?
No worries, you found and are willing to use TFP info, you'll be sparkly in a few weeks!
 
Re: Whelp, I think I might be up the creek ::sigh::

splashpad said:
What type was the shock?


Can you post a picture of your pool? Is the water otherwise clear?
No worries, you found and are willing to use TFP info, you'll be sparkly in a few weeks!
Click to expand...

I'm liking the confidence and reassurance.

Shock was BioGuard Super Soluble 14 lbs, 6 lbs of BG burnout 3, and 7 sticks of the BG silk complete. I believe thats what it was, I posted a complete list earlier today, I'll find it.

This picture I just took for this post.

Today.jpg
 

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Re: Whelp, I think I might be up the creek ::sigh::

mknauss said:
How far to drain a vinyl liner pool is how risk averse are you. Some say to the top of the lower step in the shallow end, others no more than 12-18" from the top.

With a high CYA, if you got a sump pump, you could try the slow exchange method. You determine the rate a small sump pump can pull from the deep end (say 7 gpm) while at the same time putting 7 gpm of fresh water in the shallow end. Only works well if your fill water and pool water are about the same temperature. If your fill water is much colder than your pool water, you do the opposite. You put the sump pump in as shallow a water it will operate and you put the fill hose in the deep end at the bottom.

Just a thought ---
Click to expand...

Ah got it! The sump option makes more sense now. And mitigates the risk of dropping water, despite eliminating more water overall potentially. Thank you Marty.
 
Re: Whelp, I think I might be up the creek ::sigh::

Yeeper said:
I'm liking the confidence and reassurance.
This picture I just took for this post.
{pic}
Click to expand...
Love the pool, you'll have it "tamed" and sparkly!

Yeeper said:
Shock was
BioGuard Super Soluble 14 lbs - Trichlor (added CYA)
6 lbs of BG burnout 3 - Cal-Hypo (added Calcium)
7 sticks of the BG silk complete - Trichlor (added CYA)
. I believe thats what it was, I posted a complete list earlier today, I'll find it.
Click to expand...
 

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