OK i am thinking of having a pool built. pool builder said i have to supply a 120 60 amp service to the control panel . 60 amp ??? really it is just for a led light 300 watt transformer and a hayward pump. So the wire would have to run from outside panel 50 feet to the other end of house though the attic down wall to a junction box from there to pool pump 20 feet they said a 6/2 for attic run from outside junction box to pump thnn wires ?? do they make a 60 amp breaker to fit 6/2 wire. when i asked the pool installer why 60 amp he said that's what it takes incase i might want to add heater other stuff ??? no that wiring is expensive . When I had my sprinkler pump done they used 10/2 Romex that wire was not as expensive. would 10/2 not work with a 30 amp breaker??? any thoughts would be great
Need info
- Thread starter enterpriselc
- Start date
Welcome to TFP!
You don’t want to go with too small or you may regret down the road. I’m not really sure why they are wanting to go with 120V. 240V is needed for many heaters and most pumps will run on 240. Smaller wire too.
You don’t want to go with too small or you may regret down the road. I’m not really sure why they are wanting to go with 120V. 240V is needed for many heaters and most pumps will run on 240. Smaller wire too.
I will never get a heater it is a 7x15 4 feet deep sun will heat it just fine the cost of wire is the factor
Is this above ground? It's kind of sounding like that. Anything in ground, whether vinyl, fiberglass or concrete should be 240v. Just to save electric cost and reduce the workload on the equipment.
if you do end up running 240 volts to a sub-panel at your equipment pad, use a 3-conductor cable... i.e. 10/3 for 30A or 6/3 for 60A. that way you also have two 120 volt legs (opposite phase, 240v total), and powering something else that's 120v - like lights or an outlet - will be simple.
this is a different discussion but I thought the max current for 6 gauge wire was 55A once you apply the NEC temperature rules. I'm not an electrician, but the NEC table 310.15(B) lists the max current for a 6 gauge wire at 60 degrees to be 55A. 6 gauge THHN wire has a higher insulation temperature rating than NM-B but I think NEC assumes wires up to 1 gauge are connected to equipment rated for 60 degrees. @ajw22 please correct me if this is wrong!
An example is a sub-panel in my house that is fed by 6/3 NM-B (not THHN!) and it's protected by a 50A fuse instead of a 60A (I guess they didn't have a 55?)
An example is a sub-panel in my house that is fed by 6/3 NM-B (not THHN!) and it's protected by a 50A fuse instead of a 60A (I guess they didn't have a 55?)
They do 60 amp breaker. My concern was they were not ripping me off with this expensive wire. They will run 6/2 Romex though attic 50 feet to junction box on outside house wall from outside run 20 feet 6 thnn with a 60 amp breaker just to run a hayward pool pump led light that runs on a 300 watt transformer I just thought it was a lot since pump is 12amp 2speed I just base my opinion since my sprinkler pump was done with 10/2
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,158
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
They are trying to protect their reputation when a future owner wants to install a Heat Pump for the pool and asks who the idiot was who installed small electric wiring?
ahha so then its ok how they want to do it so 6/2 at 110 60 amp breaker is ok then thanks
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,158
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
No it is not ok. It should be 240V. Not 120.
I was commenting on you wanting 30A wiring.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,158
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
You should get 240V with 2 hots, neutral, and ground. 4 wires pulled.
* Small Conductors.
Unless specifically permitted in 240.4(E) through (G), the overcurrent protection shall not exceed 15 amperes for 14 AWG, 20 amperes for 12 AWG, and 30 amperes for 10 AWG copper; or 15 amperes for 12 AWG and 25 amperes for 10 AWG aluminum and copper-clad aluminum after any correction factors for ambient temperature and number of conductors have been applied.
You also have to account for voltage drop.
At wire size 14 AWG, a 15 amp breaker at 120 volts assuming a 12 amp load on the circuit, the maximum distance is 56 feet.
At wire size 12 AWG and a 15 amp breaker at 120 volts assuming a 12 amp load on the circuit, the maximum distance is 86 feet.
www.southwire.com
Unless specifically permitted in 240.4(E) through (G), the overcurrent protection shall not exceed 15 amperes for 14 AWG, 20 amperes for 12 AWG, and 30 amperes for 10 AWG copper; or 15 amperes for 12 AWG and 25 amperes for 10 AWG aluminum and copper-clad aluminum after any correction factors for ambient temperature and number of conductors have been applied.
You also have to account for voltage drop.
At wire size 14 AWG, a 15 amp breaker at 120 volts assuming a 12 amp load on the circuit, the maximum distance is 56 feet.
At wire size 12 AWG and a 15 amp breaker at 120 volts assuming a 12 amp load on the circuit, the maximum distance is 86 feet.
Voltage Drop Calculator | Southwire
www.southwire.com
I don't think that it makes sense to plan to add a heat pump if you do not intend to add a heat pump.
They can always run a new dedicated line later for a heat pump with a dedicated disconnect.
I would probably do a 30 amp breaker to a subpanel using #10 AWG and then put your 20 amp GFCI breaker for the pump in the subpanel.
Also, Romex should not be used outdoors.
Use individual #10 THHN wires with 2 hot, 1 neutral and one ground in a conduit.
They can always run a new dedicated line later for a heat pump with a dedicated disconnect.
I would probably do a 30 amp breaker to a subpanel using #10 AWG and then put your 20 amp GFCI breaker for the pump in the subpanel.
Also, Romex should not be used outdoors.
Use individual #10 THHN wires with 2 hot, 1 neutral and one ground in a conduit.
They said it could be 110 volt 60 amp or 240volt 30amp. pump is either way 110or 240 so i said ok 110 they said they would run 6/2 romex though attic then down inside wall to junction box on outside wall then 20 ft under ground in conduit to pool control panel using 6 thnn to run hayward pump 2speed and led light with 300 watt transformer
no the 6/2 romex is only going though attic then down inside wall then though wall just to junction box then 6thnn to pool control panel. ye i thought what you said made since i dont want a heater
"NMC" cable is the type of cable that can be used outdoors, specifically in damp or corrosive locations, as the "C" stands for "corrosion-resistant" and allows it to handle more moisture than standard "NM" cable which is only suitable for dry areas; however, it's important to always check local building codes and ensure proper installation when using NMC cable outdoors.
Key points about NMC cable:
Corrosion resistance:
The main feature that differentiates NMC from regular NM cable is its corrosion-resistant jacket, making it suitable for damp or wet environments.
Outdoor applications:
While not ideal for fully exposed outdoor situations, NMC can be used in certain outdoor applications like outside walls of masonry or concrete blocks where it can be protected from direct weather exposure.
Installation considerations:
When using NMC cable outdoors, ensure it is properly secured and protected from physical damage, often requiring additional conduit or raceways in certain situations.
Key points about NMC cable:
Corrosion resistance:
The main feature that differentiates NMC from regular NM cable is its corrosion-resistant jacket, making it suitable for damp or wet environments.
Outdoor applications:
While not ideal for fully exposed outdoor situations, NMC can be used in certain outdoor applications like outside walls of masonry or concrete blocks where it can be protected from direct weather exposure.
Installation considerations:
When using NMC cable outdoors, ensure it is properly secured and protected from physical damage, often requiring additional conduit or raceways in certain situations.
120 volts at 60 amps really does not make sense.
Heat pumps are 240 volts, so I don't know how 120 volt 60 amp service is logical.
The pump should be 240 volts and variable speed.
Do, 30 amps with 120/240 volts supply.
You need 4 wires - two hot, 1 neutral and 1 ground.
The light transformer takes 120 volts, so you need both voltages.
You also need an outlet at 120 volts.
2014 Code Language:
680.22(A)
(1) Required Receptacle, Location.
Where a permanently installed pool is installed, no fewer than one 125-volt, 15- or 20-ampere receptacle on a general-purpose branch circuit shall be located not less than 1.83 m (6 ft) from, and not more than 6.0 m (20 ft) from, the inside wall of the pool.
This receptacle shall be located not more than 2.0 m (6 ft 6 in.) above the floor, platform, or grade level serving the pool.
Receptacles
Locate at least one 15A or 20A, 125V receptacle at least 6 ft and not more than 20 ft from the inside wall of the pool [680.22(A)(1)]. This receptacle can't be more than 6½ ft above the floor, platform, or grade level serving the pool.
Locate at least one 15A or 20A, 125V receptacle at least 6 ft and not more than 20 ft from the inside wall of the pool [680.22(A)(1)]. This receptacle can't be more than 6½ ft above the floor, platform, or grade level serving the pool.
Article 680 - Permanently Installed Swimming Pools, based on the 2017 NEC. Part I of II
CLICK HERE to read this article written by Mike Holt for EC&M Magazine. Please share this newsletter.
www.mikeholt.com
Which Hayward 2-speed pump are they supplying? Especially one that will run on 110V? Those are usually above-ground pool pumps.