New to hot tubs

[CeeElGee78]

@DangerBoy - Hey, Roj.

I'm in a similar situation, but worse. New install of an old Dynasty tub out in the woods, and filled with soft water simply because it was convenient (i.e. the house's plumbing) and nobody told me otherwise. Now that I'm trying to get the chemistry right I couldn't get the pH to come down, so I drained and refilled with hard (well) water. I mean, really hard. My old and in need of calibration TDS meter says 900ppm (for reference, it reports our RO water at 40ppm). So where do I go from here? I gather that 200-300ppm of Ca is optimum, but dog knows what else is in there along with it, including iron.

I don't consider using RO water a practical option as a starting point, given the low production rate. I don't know how people who say they do it do it.

Suggestions for getting on track would be most welcome.

Sorry if I'm stepping in here in the middle of a discussion, but I am new to hot tubs and ignorant about just about everything! After reading through this entire thread and going back, I'm wondering about using softened water vs. well water or municipal hard water. Is having a certain level of CH the lone reason for avoiding strictly soft water in the initial fill of the hot tub? Is my low-iron yet high CH municipal water the best of both worlds? Hoping to put together some more questions for an newbie post later, but wanted to gather some information here first.

 

[dogsbody]

Well, from what I seem to have learned so far, "availability" is the primary consideration. I mean, if you're on municipal water (whether you soften it or not), it's unlikely you'll have the choice of using well water, right? In my case, municipal is unavailable, so I have the choice of well water, softened or not. There's a desired ceiling to CH that can only be mitigated by dilution (with soft), so if your municipal feed exceeds it, the choice would seem to be obvious: Use soft water and add CH as necessary. In my case (and to my mild confusion), the CH is low, but the TA quite high - but that's easily mitigated with a jug of acid. You could, of course, start with hard and dilute it instead, but that seems to me to be rather a bigger PITA than starting with soft.

 

[Mdragger88]

Sorry if I'm stepping in here in the middle of a discussion, but I am new to hot tubs and ignorant about just about everything! After reading through this entire thread and going back, I'm wondering about using softened water vs. well water or municipal hard water. Is having a certain level of CH the lone reason for avoiding strictly soft water in the initial fill of the hot tub? Is my low-iron yet high CH municipal water the best of both worlds? Hoping to put together some more questions for an newbie post later, but wanted to gather some information here first.

What is the ch of your fill water (softened & straight)?

 

[CeeElGee78]

What is the ch of your fill water (softened & straight)?

The municipal water supplier advertises 353 ppm hardness, which computes to 20.6 grains, about what I got with my own testing. I haven't tested the soft water yet from my new water softener. I only just finished installing it a week or so ago.

 

[Mdragger88]

The municipal water supplier advertises 353 ppm hardness, which computes to 20.6 grains, about what I got with my own testing. I haven't tested the soft water yet from my new water softener. I only just finished installing it a week or so ago.

You need to test both yourself for calcium hardness not total hardness (which includes ch + other factors) to determine which one to use
At any rate, low to no ch is perfectly fine in a standalone spa if thats what your softener provides.
You can increase the ch yourself in increments of 50ppm up to 150ppm to help reduce foaming if that happens to occur. Otherwise don’t worry about it. Mine is roughly 50/75ppm and it is no problem.
Higher ch levels increase the potential for scale in the heater and a swcg if you have one.
Keeping on top of ph management and keeping csi zero to slightly negative helps mitigate this risk.
You can calculate csi with
PoolMath just turn on csi tracking

Calcium Hardness - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[RDspaguy]

I always heard through the grapevine that softened water leads to balancing troubles, like your chems don't work or it takes more than it should, and potentially resulting in mechanical issues if not resolved. Not sure if it's true, or if it was a one-time faulty softener, or what, but that's what I heard. Not the end of the world, but a minor PITA worth avoiding if possible.

 

[Mdragger88]

The first step is to test both the softened and unsoftened water.
I would check ph, ta, & ch so you can make an informed decision.

 

[CeeElGee78]

The first step is to test both the softened and unsoftened water.
I would check ph, ta, & ch so you can make an informed decision.

Sorry for the delay in responding. My numbers are identical for pH and Total Alkalinity for both hard and soft water, 7.3 and 210 respectively. Calcium Hardness is very similar to previous tests and the reported hardness, 350-375 (those transitions from red to purple to blue confuse me every time!). CH for my soft water tested between 0 and 25 (I tested three times).

Still not sure how to proceed without any concrete operating instructions. I could go ahead and perform the cleaning process using the Ahhsome and hope the pump works. I'm assuming this line underneath with a hose valve is the drain?

 

[dogsbody]

Seems to me you could run with either because your hard water's CH is already within acceptable limits, so if you go with soft you're just going to have to raise it anyway. Your hard water numbers are very close to being in a good place, based on my limited experience.

I'm assuming that what you think is a drain hose is the black line beneath the CAUTION IMPORTANT NOTICE WARNING, and if it has a garden-hose-type fitting on it, I'd tend to agree.

 

[CeeElGee78]

Seems to me you could run with either because your hard water's CH is already within acceptable limits, so if you go with soft you're just going to have to raise it anyway. Your hard water numbers are very close to being in a good place, based on my limited experience.

I'm assuming that what you think is a drain hose is the black line beneath the CAUTION IMPORTANT NOTICE WARNING, and if it has a garden-hose-type fitting on it, I'd tend to agree.

Thank you. My only means of choosing between hard and soft is by using the bypass valve on my softener. It seems to indicate that I could actually mix the two by moving the valve to a midpoint. I will probably play with that.

 

[JoeSelf]

Submersible pump drains the water alot quicker. I have two drain hoses, regular hose type & a larger 1 1/2" valve with a threaded end for a 1 1/2" hose. After a purge I run water thru both but use a pump with a 1 1/2" backwash hose to the street. Takes about 15 - 20 minutes.

 

[dogsbody]

Thank you. My only means of choosing between hard and soft is by using the bypass valve on my softener. It seems to indicate that I could actually mix the two by moving the valve to a midpoint. I will probably play with that.

I can't see any advantage in doing that. Pick one or the other and you'll save yourself a lot of screwing around that I don't think you actually stand to gain from.

As for whether you can pull that trick anyway with the softener bypass: Maybe, maybe not. My softener has locking pins on the valves that require each be in one of two positions, and without those locks (i.e. in between) there is much shooting of parts and hosing down of the room.

 

[Mdragger88]

I would first fill the tub (by placing the hose in the filter area so you don’t cause an airlock) and confirm the pumps & equipment are operational, no leaks etc.
If its heating up and all is well then proceed with the Ahhsome purge.
For the purge water it doesn’t matter whether you use softened water or not. You’ll be dumping it at the end of the purge anyway.
Just add 5-10ppm of liquid chlorine to take care of any nasties that may be in the water and purge away. You can use the same water for subsequent purge rounds.
Once the foam dies down, use a 1/2 dose more of ahhsome then turn the jets back on for another round.
Continue this process until gunk is no longer coming out.
Wipe the gunk from the sides as you go. I also scoop out any dirty foam. Having a plastic tub of water for rinsing is handy in an indoor environment.
Most tub drains are fitted with a standard garden hose connector as dogsbody mentioned. Without a submersible pump you won’t be able to fully drain the footwell so you may need to refill that area a few times to dilute & get most of the purge water remnants gone once you’re done.
Upon refill, If you feel like filling solely with softened water will put a strain on your softener system you may want to try a mix.
A ch of 0-50 ppm is totally fine for a standalone fiberglass or acrylic spa. If foaming occurs you can increase it a little until it stops. Usually around the 150 range is sufficient for most people.
Too much ch however (300+) can cause scaling issues when ph rises above the 7’s which can kinda be a recurring issue in a spa due to the aeration that occurs. So it would behoove you to use at least some softened water.

 

[dogsbody]

Most tub drains are fitted with a standard garden hose connector as dogsbody mentioned. Without a submersible pump you won’t be able to fully drain the footwell so you may need to refill that area a few times to dilute & get most of the purge water remnants gone once you’re done.

Submersible pumps are good, but even they won't get all the water out. My preference is to use a wet shopvac for the bottom.

 

[Mdragger88]

Submersible pumps are good, but even they won't get all the water out. My preference is to use a wet shopvac for the bottom.

Good idea!
I use my pool cover pump and it sucks it pretty much dry with the leaf guard removed. Before I had a pump I had to manually scoop with a cup and a turkey baster- it wasn’t much fun

 

[CeeElGee78]

Submersible pumps are good, but even they won't get all the water out. My preference is to use a wet shopvac for the bottom.

I have both a submersible and wet/dry vac, so that won't be a problem. Thanks for all the advice. I'll get started this week with warmer weather in the forecast.

 

[CeeElGee78]

I have more questions and pictures, including a labeling panel I hadn't seen before. Appears to be a Jacuzzi Model Z145. According to a diagram online, it holds 248 gallons while operating. I've included three photos of what looks similar to a pool skimmer. Is there supposed to be some sort of filter element in there? Because I didn't find one. There is a square drain near the bottom covered in a plastic guard (previous photos), but I can't imagine a filter in there. And there's nothing underneath where the return lines come to the pump.

Again, any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[PoolStored]

It is a skimmer, and yes, there should be a filter.

Parts for you tub listed here (not recommending this source to buy, just showing parts lists are available.)

Jacuzzi Z145 345 – H240 with H193 and H136 Spa Parts Page

Guillen, a Jacuzzi Whirlpool Bath MPD master parts distributor stocks over 2,000 Jacuzzi parts and shipping daily M - F. buy online

www.guillens.com

The skimmer:

Front Load Skimmer Assembly

Part #5 below, Jacuzzi part # 6199000, is the filter for the skimmer.

 

[CeeElGee78]

UPDATE: Tub is nearly full but I didn't fill it all the way. I don't see any leaks anywhere. Although I was skeptical at first, the heater seems to be working, slowly but surely. The water temp has increased 10 degrees in two hours. It began running on low speed as soon as I powered on the breaker. Must be a standby mode to keep the tub heated at a certain temperature while not in use. The pump cycled well through all the settings. BUT -- I don't have the filter, although I did order one, thanks to PoolStored. It's on its way.

Question: Should I wait for the filter to arrive before I add the Ahhsome and do the purge? For instance, the instructions on the Ahhsome bag say to remove the filter. How critical is it for the filter to be in place during the purge?

 

[PoolStored]

Ahhsome instructions:


Since your filter is new, and doesn't need to be cleaned, purge away!