Problem Setting Pump Speed with Schedule

[FrankJr]

Hello,
I have read through many posts trying to understand why I am unable to have my filtration pump run at the speed I set instead of the maximum RPM when the pump turns on via the schedule. Note that I can use the iAquaLink app and manually change the RPM to whatever I want after the pump turns on, so I know that the pump is wired correctly.

I only have one program in my schedule, so this should be a very easy configuration. I used a similar schedule with my previous pool with similar equipment and had no issue. We recently moved and had a pool built this past summer, but for some reason I cannot get the pump on this new pool to run at the speed I set.

Some relevant info on the pool and equipment:

• Pool + Spa
• Automation system: Jandy RS-8 Combo
• Pumps: Two Jandy VSP EPumps (Filtration #6073, Water Feature #6072)
• Jandy JXI Heater

Note that the installer did not wire the Heater to the RS-485 bus which is why it does not show up in the list of 485 equipment (he used legacy 2-wire connection). I will change that after I get the pump speed issue resolved.

One thing I noticed is that on the "Errors" page it states there is an error with "ePump 1 RS485". Is this referring to Pump 6073 or 6072, or some phantom pump that doesn't exist in my system? I noticed that there are several additional pieces of equipment listed on the "Devices" screen. What are "Pump1 SPD" and "Pump2 SPD" listed on this screen? is "Pump 1 SPD" the one referred to on the Error page? Is there a way to delete everything except the two pumps that I actually have (6072, 6073) just to clean this up?

I am attaching several photos showing the Schedule programming, the VSP Setup, Speed Setup, RS-485 devices, etc. The pump speed I am trying to set is the filtration pump #6073. Initially the schedule was set to run the "Filter Pump". I changed this to run "Pool" to match the Speed Label for which I wanted the pump run. Both resulted in the pump running at max speed - 3450 RPM. I even set the Max speed on all pumps to 2500 RPM, and the filtration pump still runs at 3450 RPM.

Let me know what other information would be helpful in resolving this issue - Thanks!

 

[ajw22]

Is this a new pool build?

You have a new Aqualink version with REV Yg, and Jandy seems to have made significant changes to it. With the latest Aqualink and pumps, your system is acting differently than we have seen.

Maybe @MSchutzer is still around and has ideas.

 

[MSchutzer]

A couple of things here. It appears that you have two of the newer self addressing pumps in your system.

The VSP speed setting stuff that you have shown in your screen shots looks like it is for pump address 1, which is the old style pump with the addresses 1 through 4.

This is where it gets a little fuzzy because version Yg is so new that VSP speed setup stuff is a bit different. Your pumps will show up as pumps 5 and 6 with the last four digits of the serial number 6072 and 6073 after the pump number. I haven't seen any evidence yet that pumps 5 and above can be set up in the web interface. It may be possible, but no one has posted screens of this process.

You can set these pumps up in the app though, and here is a screenshot of the VSP pump setup screens from the app that someone posted.



It looks like your installer is trying to install the new pumps as pumps 1 and 2 and that is partially why the system is complaining. With the new self addressing pumps you should have pumps 1 though 4 set up as not installed as the application.

From the app you should set pump 5, or pump 6 as your filtration pump. You will have to figure out which pump is your main filter pump, and which one is the aux pump (spa jets maybe).

Your primary filtration pump should be set up as the Filtration application, and your second pump should be auxiliary.

Then go into the VSP speed setup tables for your filtration pump (in the app, not the web interface) and set up the speeds you want. The slowest speed you ever want to run should be you filtration speed and that should be set as speed step 1 with the Pool label. If you activate any other faster speeds the pump will go faster as the fastest active speed always wins.

You want to change your schedule and replace Pool (which is a speed setting) with Filter/Pump which is the filtering function. The Filter/Pump function auto associates with speed step 1 (Pool) from the pump VSP table that is set up as the Filtration pump.

For that same pump you will want to set the Pool heat speed to something faster than your slow filtration speed. Then when the pool heat function is active and the pool heater is actually running the VSP speed of the filtration pump will automatically increase, and when the pool reaches temperature the pump speed will drop back to the slower speed. If that same heater is used for the spa, then set the Spa heat VSP speed the same as the pool heat speed, and the pump will then increase when you have spa heat active.

Your setup is currently a mishmash old and new setups and not working because it looks like it was set up on the web interface rather than the app, which has been updated to support the new self addressing pumps.

There's more information on the new VSP pump setups here:

Jandy Aqualink RS - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

I hope this helps.

 

[FrankJr]

Hi Mark,

Thanks very much for your very useful information. I decided to call Jandy support yesterday afternoon (before your response), and the support tech spent quite some time trying to figure out how the system was configured and why the modified speed settings were not taking effect.

To answer one of the questions you (and Allen) asked; yes, this is a new pool (completed ~mid-August). It has the latest ePumps that have the pre-assigned Serial Address (no DIP Switch settings for address).

One of the first things I discovered while talking to the Jandy tech is that (as Mark pointed out), my pumps are numbers 5 & 6 (5: Pool/Spa filter, 6: Water Feature). The tech did not explain why they were configured as such, other than "the installer set it up that way". But that did not make sense to me - why not configure them as the obvious choice of 1 & 2? I also asked how he determined the pump assignments because I could not see anything beyond Pump 4 in the web interface, and he said he had a special app that would allow this. I assume that this is the same app that Mark included the screenshot from? Is this an installer only app? If not, where can I get it? It does not seem right that a pool owner cannot even see his own equipment configuration via the vendor's own app. How was I supposed to know this? The installer did not tell me, and the app didn't show me.

Knowing the assigned pump numbers for the two pumps allowed the tech to select the correct pump (Pump5) in the VSP/Speed Setup config by pressing the "Pump: x Selected" button at the top right until you get to Pump5 (see screenshot). I suspect this is one of the main reasons why the pump speed was not working for me - I was setting the speed for the wrong pump.

After some time, the Jandy tech got things working, but he could not get the new RPM values to take effect at first. He eventually did some type of reset to erase all programming because the thought there must be some hidden program still lingering in the system somehow. He then added the two programs to the schedule (more on that later), and the pump finally started running at the RPM he set for "Pool". He tried reducing the priming time from 3 minutes to 1 minute for that pump (6073) because every time he changed something we had to wait 3 minutes for the pump to complete the priming process, but he could not get that to work.

I wanted to wait until today to post this to ensure that when the system started this morning, the "Pool" RPM took effect - and it did. So, finally, after several weeks of trying to figure this out, it is working .

But here's my one question. As you can see in one of the screenshots, the tech programmed two entries in the Schedule; one for the "Filter Pump", and one for the "Pool". He said this was necessary because the "Filter Pump" is for the device that is being turned on, and the "Pool" is for the speed of that device. This was not necessary in my previous pool. And based on what Mark states above, it appears that if there is no "Pool" entry, the "Filter Pump" will default to the "Pool" speed. I suppose I can simply try deleting the "Pool" entry and see what happens, but maybe this type of configuration is needed due to the new style pumps and them being forced to Pump5 & Pump6? At this point I'm reluctant to mess with it because it is working. However, it is a minor inconvenience to change the start/stop times on two entries when I increase or decrease the run times throughout the year.

The tech also deleted the two phantom "Pump1/2 SPD" pumps I had in the system, one of which was causing the RS485 error - so I have no errors now (yay). I also attached the updated list of Devices that show up under "Schedule" which now have the "Pump1 SPD" & "Pump2 SPD" entries deleted.

Which leads me to one more scheduling related question. As you can see in the list of Devices that show up if I click to Add a new schedule entry, "Filter Pump" is present, but "Pool" is not listed. Why is that? What if I wanted to run the filter pump at two periods during the day, wouldn't I need a corresponding (overlapping) "Pool" entry to set the speed for that time similar to the current two entries, and based on what the Jandy tech stated? I thought maybe "Pool" would magically show up if I added a second "Filter Pump" entry, but I did a quick test and "Pool" does not show up - so something seems strange here.

This is unrelated, but I wired the heater as an RS485 device today instead of the 2-wire connection and attached the updated list of RS485 Devices now showing "Gas Heater 1".

Hopefully this will help someone who has the newer ePumps VSPs and is trying to set a lower RPM. The reduction in wattage is significant. Why have variable speed pumps and run them at maximum RPM all the time?

Cheers,
Frank

 

[ajw22]

Your blue screen shots are using the iAqualink web app.

The yellow screenshots that were posted are from the Aqualink phone app.

It seems the phone app has been updated and shows new pump addressing features that the web app does not.

Try downloading the phone app and see if it gives you more information. I don’t know if the iPhone or Android phone apps are different. So what you get may depend on the device you have.

 

[MSchutzer]

Glad they were able to get it going for you. As Allen said the app is iAquaLink phone app that is free from the App Store, or Play Store if you have an Android phone.

The Jandy tech is incorrect about needing to specifically set the Pool pump speed. As you found the function that you can select is Filter/Pump and that function is automatically linked to the Pool speed so there’s no need to have a second Pool line in the schedule. You can delete that if you want.

In most cases you won’t have to specifically set pump speeds in the schedule unless you want to change speeds for some need.

You schedule functions, such as spa, pool heat, spa heat, cleaner, etc., and each function is auto-associated with a speed in the VSP table. In most cases the function name matches the speed name in the VSP speed table, but the Filter/Pump function is auto-associated with speed 1, the speed labeled Pool.

Further the auto-association is with the speed number, not the label on that speed. So when the filter/pump function is running the pump will run speed 1, even if you change the name of that speed to something else.

If you have two functions scheduled, like Spa and Spa Heat then you really have three VSP speeds associated with that. The system knows that you can’t run the Spa without the pump running so when you activate the spa the system also activates the filter/pump function. When the spa heat function is enabled (and actively heating) the spa heat speed setting comes into play.

Let’s say for example your speeds are:
pool - 1000
Spa - 2000
Spa heat - 3000

When multiple functions and speeds are active the rule is fastest speed wins.

When Spa is active both filter/pump and spa speeds auto-associate. The pump will run 2000 rpm as that is the faster of the two speeds. When the spa is actually heating the spa heat speed becomes active also and then you have speeds of 1000, 2000, and 3000 rpm all active and the pump runs at 3000 rpm. When the spa reaches temperature then it drops back to 2000 rpm.

It can be quite confusing but it does work. Jandy’s documentation of the this and the way it all works is beyond terrible, but the Wiki does a pretty good job of covering all of this. A lot to trial and error went in to figuring that all out.

Jandy Aqualink RS - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Hopefully this helps

 

[FrankJr]

Hi Allen and Mark,

Ok, this is all making much more sense now. I do have the app installed on my phone, but the pool installer told me that it is basically only good for toggling equipment on and off, and for any configuration to jump directly to the "Web" access. Going to the "System Settings/System Setup/VS Pump Setup" in the app I can see the pump screen that Mark shared (attached) showing all Pumps (1..20). I can even change the pump name and speeds by selecting the pump number from the list - this is great.

Mark, thanks for providing more detail on how the association of function to speed works. I have been looking for this type of information for some time. And thanks for the link to the Wiki - there is a goldmine of information there.

I will try deleting that second "Pool" entry from the schedule and see if everything still works as it does now.


Also, I don't know who maintains the Wiki, but under the RS-485 section I noticed it states:

"You can connect at least 2 sets of wires to each RS-485 connection. Depending on if your panel has 1 or 2 ports you can have 2 or 4 devices hooked up."

Based on the second sentence stating 2 or 4 devices can be connected, should the first sentence say "You can connect at most 2 sets of wires to each RS-485 connection"? Should I add this to the "Discussion" tab on the Wiki?

Thanks,
Frank

 

[ajw22]

Also, I don't know who maintains the Wiki, but under the RS-485 section I noticed it states:

"You can connect at least 2 sets of wires to each RS-485 connection. Depending on if your panel has 1 or 2 ports you can have 2 or 4 devices hooked up."

Based on the second sentence stating 2 or 4 devices can be connected, should the first sentence say "You can connect at most 2 sets of wires to each RS-485 connection"? Should I add this to the "Discussion" tab on the Wiki?

Thanks for pointing it out. I cleaned that up.

 

[MSchutzer]

Frank,

Your installer was not entirely wrong with the statement about using the web interface for doing any configuration or setup stuff.

Traditionally the app was very limited in what you could do and it was limited to turning stuff on and off as your installer said. In the last couple years things have changed as Jandy introduced the newer embedded serial number pumps and new firmware revision's (Rev W and later).

Jandy has updated the app so that it supports setup features when it is connected to system with these newer firmware revisions. I have a system with version T.2 firmware and I don’t see any of those setup options when I run the app, and the whole app display is a completely different style.

The Web interface appears it hasn’t been updated with the setup features associated with the newer Jandy VSP pumps, so you need to use the app to setup any pumps outside the 1 to 4 address range.

Since I don’t have the latest Yg version I can’t say this conclusively, but as you have found the Web interface appears to only support VSP pump setup for pumps using addresses 1 to 4.

Hopefully they will add those setup features to the Web interface at some point.

It’s likely that your installer hasn’t had much experience with the newer style self-addressing pumps as they recently started to show up.