Good grief.. do I have algae/biofilm now??

[swimmynoodle]

After paying meticulous attention to detail, researching endlessly on TFP, following, absorbing, and utilizing the knowledge of the brightest of the bright here.. I was about to take a dip in my swim spa annnd....... floaties and black particles everywhere

As mentioned in previous posts, I nerdfully© and meticulously cleaned my swim spa. I bought a brand spanking new cover. I purged with Ahh-some a whopping 32 times until no nasties reared their ugly head. I removed every single jet and painstakingly scrubbed each one b hand to a shine. I emptied and refilled the water 8 times, using a prefilter, filter, house filter, and hose filter.

The water is so clear you can see a spoon on the bottom of the swim spa while standing on the deck 20 feet above:


Here are the black fleck things:



I read on TFP to see if the particle can smear which it did. It feels like soft rubber but I assume this is not the case:
Black algae? Green algae? A headache in physical form?

The kicker is this black piece. It had white stuff on it and looked round like it was built up on the internal hoses when smeared:



Soooo.. what should I do now? I vacuumed out the white floaties and black stuff with a pool vac and ten minutes later... pop... more on the bottom of the swim spa

Any help would be appreciated. I honestly thought my meticulous attention to detail would have prevented this from occurring. The spa is covered 99.9% of the time. The cover isnt peeling. I read many TFP posts mentioning 'black floating things' but I cant confirm this is algae. Its not roofing material or from anything falling in the water. Is this stuff dangerous if ingested? I cant afford to get a deadly bacteria in my lung

Thank you.

FC 6
CC .5
TC 6.5
TA 60
pH 7.7
CH 60
CYA ~10. Performed drop test. Cloudy, but could still see black dot @ 20. Estimating 10 right now.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

That doesn’t look like algae. My guess is that something internal is breaking down, like a rubber seal. Or, the heater element is starting to go bad. They can rust and corrode and throw off a lot of junk.

@RDspaguy may have seen something like that. Let’s see if he’s around to throw some eyes on it.

 

[swimmynoodle]

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Thank you.

 

[RDspaguy]

It could be a rubber gasket or part of a pump seal. The white could be scale. It could be something in the heater or pump melting or getting shredded. Can't say for sure from here.
I have to ask why you had to purge 32 times and change the water 8? Is there some story there that might offer a clue?

 

[swimmynoodle]

Thanks for the reply. Ill have to check the heater. Although handy, I'm not sure id be able to dismantle the pumps piece by piece to see if something is melting inside.
I purged it and changed the water that many times simply because I'm the type of person who does those things thinking more is better
I purged it until absolutely no gunk came out after using Ahh-Some.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Missed the part about 32 purges ... uhhhh ...

In this instance, and in most parts of life, more is NOT better. Ahhsome is a very powerful surfactant that will not only lift biofilms, but will also remove any oils or lubricants in comes into contact with. While that is not usually a problem for mechnical seals and o-rings that have sufficient enough lubrication on them, exposing them over and over again to Ahhsome will degrade something ... what that something is, is now anyone's guess. You're just going to have to wait it out at this point and see what fails. If the pump starts leaking or a sealed fitting starts to dribble then you can probably chalk that up to excessive chemical exposure.

Perhaps next time ask someone on the forum here. I'm pretty sure you would have been advised to stop after the second round of purging.

 

[swimmynoodle]

Missed the part about 32 purges ... uhhhh ...

In this instance, and in most parts of life, more is NOT better. Ahhsome is a very powerful surfactant that will not only lift biofilms, but will also remove any oils or lubricants in comes into contact with. While that is not usually a problem for mechnical seals and o-rings that have sufficient enough lubrication on them, exposing them over and over again to Ahhsome will degrade something ... what that something is, is now anyone's guess. You're just going to have to wait it out at this point and see what fails. If the pump starts leaking or a sealed fitting starts to dribble then you can probably chalk that up to excessive chemical exposure.

Perhaps next time ask someone on the forum here. I'm pretty sure you would have been advised to stop after the second round of purging.

Errr.. then I want my money back. If that is the case then the people who manufacture Ahh!some, and are a part of TFP, need to immediately recall their Ahh!some products and reprint their labels.

The label clearly states, "Numerous purges may be necessary to remove all or most of the inanimate contaminants."
The label does not state, 'One or two," "Many," "A couple," or even "Several." It states, "Numerous" which 32 equates to numerous.

'Numerous' means 'consisting of great numbers' and nowhere on the label does it say, "Be sure to ask the individuals at troublefreepool.com prior to attempting numerous purges, as stated on said label, as excessive chemical exposure can lead to costly repairs."



The label should read:

"WARNING: Ahhsome is a very powerful surfactant that will not only lift biofilms, but will also remove any oils or lubricants it comes into contact with. While that is not usually a problem for mechanical seals and O-rings that have sufficient enough lubrication on them, exposing them over and over again to Ahhsome will lead to degradation."

How can Ahh!some be sold as a product meant to purge hot tubs if repeated exposer to Ahh!some can lead to degradation of seals and O-rings? Seals and O-rings don't self lubricate. Are you suggesting that customers who use Ahh!some are expected to dismantle, lubricate, and reassemble seals and O-rings as a means to mitigate degradation after exposer to Ahh!some? Surely I do not see that anywhere on the Ahh!some label. Whether exposed 32 times in one go or 32 times over the course of 5 years, the seals and O-rings will be degraded by Ahh!some.

Simply put, remove the word 'Numerous' from the label on the Ahh!some bottle and do not expect customers to ask TFP members if numerous application are acceptable when the label clearly states 'numerous' in big black bold letters. In legal terms, this may be referred to as misbranding and false or misleading labeling.

I will save this thread just in case it gets deleted. Thank you to all who have helped educate me along the way.

 

[Ahhsomeguy]

Joyful: This hot tub owner purged with the liquid and not the gel. The gel is 54.27% active and the liquid is around 3%. Ahhsome will not degrade o’rings.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Errr.. then I want my money back. If that is the case then the people who manufacture Ahh!some, and are a part of TFP, need to immediately recall their Ahh!some products and reprint their labels.

The label clearly states, "Numerous purges may be necessary to remove all or most of the inanimate contaminants."
The label does not state, 'One or two," "Many," "A couple," or even "Several." It states, "Numerous" which 32 equates to numerous.

'Numerous' means 'consisting of great numbers' and nowhere on the label does it say, "Be sure to ask the individuals at troublefreepool.com prior to attempting numerous purges, as stated on said label, as excessive chemical exposure can lead to costly repairs."

View attachment 609043

The label should read:

"WARNING: Ahhsome is a very powerful surfactant that will not only lift biofilms, but will also remove any oils or lubricants it comes into contact with. While that is not usually a problem for mechanical seals and O-rings that have sufficient enough lubrication on them, exposing them over and over again to Ahhsome will lead to degradation."

How can Ahh!some be sold as a product meant to purge hot tubs if repeated exposer to Ahh!some can lead to degradation of seals and O-rings? Seals and O-rings don't self lubricate. Are you suggesting that customers who use Ahh!some are expected to dismantle, lubricate, and reassemble seals and O-rings as a means to mitigate degradation after exposer to Ahh!some? Surely I do not see that anywhere on the Ahh!some label. Whether exposed 32 times in one go or 32 times over the course of 5 years, the seals and O-rings will be degraded by Ahh!some.

Simply put, remove the word 'Numerous' from the label on the Ahh!some bottle and do not expect customers to ask TFP members if numerous application are acceptable when the label clearly states 'numerous' in big black bold letters. In legal terms, this may be referred to as misbranding and false or misleading labeling.

I will save this thread just in case it gets deleted. Thank you to all who have helped educate me along the way.

Hahaha. Good luck with that argument. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand proper product use. You clearly stated that you are someone who -

I purged it and changed the water that many times simply because I'm the type of person who does those things thinking more is better

Common sense, since the days of Greek philosophers, knows that everything should be done in moderation, not excess. But, if you want to be one of those types that think being cutesy with semantics gets you a pass, so be it. Perhaps go to Facebook pool forums, they’ll love you there ….

Good luck, hope you find the source of your mystery particles …

 

[Ahhsomeguy]

The bottle label is primarily geared towards jetted bathtub purging. The 16 ounce bottle provides for 8 jetted bath cleanings. Jetted bathtubs hold an average of 50 gallons. The 16 ounce bottle would be enough product to purge a typical hot tub twice. So, if 32 purges were performed with just the one 16 oz bottle, they were using far less than what would be necessary to purge a Hot Tub. They would need to purchase 16 (16) Ounce bottles of liquid Hot Tub/Jetted Bath Cleaner to effectively purge a hot tub 32 times. I have never had a hot tub technician or owner need to purge more than 3 or 4 times using our GEL Cleaner. Many people use our liquid cleaner in hot tubs and jetted bathtubs, but they use the correct dosage for hot tubs. I strongly recommend that our gel product be used for hot tub purges. It is much more effective and quicker.

 

[Mdragger88]

While many need to purge quite a few rounds that amount does seem a bit excessive. I’m however reassured by Ahhsomeguy’s statement that the product itself didn’t directly cause degradation.
My only suggestion currently is to get some more cya in the water. Around 30ppm.
Fc much above 3 or 4 ppm with less than 20ppm cya is quite harsh on people & equipment especially if kept that way for a long time with hot water.
You want that new cover to last!
Since you had to get a new cover I am guessing that the swim spa isn’t new? This makes me think that perhaps biofilms were possibly helping to keep whatever aged part that was together. This scenario happens to dental hygienists with patients who have never had their teeth cleaned. They get to removing all the built up tartar & plaque and next thing you know there’s a loose or broken tooth! The gunk was actually holding it together. This exact thing happened to my old dog rest her soul.
Not sure if that is the case here but the things in the pic don’t look like algae/mold.
Perhaps you can pinpoint the source by slipping a pantyhose over each jet and seeing if its isolated to just one.

 

[swimmynoodle]

Hahaha. Good luck with that argument. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand proper product use. You clearly stated that you are someone who -



Common sense, since the days of Greek philosophers, knows that everything should be done in moderation, not excess. But, if you want to be one of those types that think being cutesy with semantics gets you a pass, so be it. Perhaps go to Facebook pool forums, they’ll love you there ….

Good luck, hope you find the source of your mystery particles …

Ooooo... your true self reveals itself to the masses. I've read reviews about you on Reddit and YouTube that when TFP members say anything to you that you dont like, you turn militant and mock them. Apparently this is correct.

Also, get with the times friend. Greeks were also put to death for not agreeing with the accepted practices of the times.

Ahhsome says 'numerous'. It does not say, "Numerous, but remember greek philosophers say to do everything in moderation." I used Ahhsome until the gunk stopped coming out and followed directions exactly.

To all future TFP members, TFP is an incredible resource where I learned most of what I needed to operate my swim spa, but please know that if you ask any questions on TFP, more than likely if you say something that certain members do not like, that you may be mocked publicly with no remorse. See above: "Perhaps go to Facebook pool forums, they’ll love you there …." Real professional.

Lastly, I used the LIQUID. See the INCLUDED PICTURE ABOVE. I did not use the GEL. Entire conversation saved.

 

[swimmynoodle]

While many need to purge quite a few rounds that amount does seem a bit excessive. I’m however reassured by Ahhsomeguy’s statement that the product itself didn’t directly cause degradation.
My only suggestion currently is to get some more cya in the water. Around 30ppm.
Fc much above 3 or 4 ppm with less than 20ppm cya is quite harsh on people & equipment especially if kept that way for a long time with hot water.
You want that new cover to last!
Since you had to get a new cover I am guessing that the swim spa isn’t new? This makes me think that perhaps biofilms were possibly helping to keep whatever aged part that was together. This scenario happens to dental hygienists with patients who have never had their teeth cleaned. They get to removing all the built up tartar & plaque and next thing you know there’s a loose or broken tooth! The gunk was actually holding it together. This exact thing happened to my old dog rest her soul.
Not sure if that is the case here but the things in the pic don’t look like algae/mold.
Perhaps you can pinpoint the source by slipping a pantyhose over each jet and seeing if its isolated to just one.

Great idea! Ill try that tomorrow. Thank you.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Ooooo... your true self reveals itself to the masses. I've read reviews about you on Reddit and YouTube that when TFP members say anything to you that you dont like, you turn militant and mock them. Apparently this is correct.

Also, get with the times friend. Greeks were also put to death for not agreeing with the accepted practices of the times.

Ahhsome says 'numerous'. It does not say, "Numerous, but remember greek philosophers say to do everything in moderation." I used Ahhsome until the gunk stopped coming out and followed directions exactly.

To all future TFP members, TFP is an incredible resource where I learned most of what I needed to operate my swim spa, but please know that if you ask any questions on TFP, more than likely if you say something that certain members do not like, that you may be mocked publicly with no remorse. See above: "Perhaps go to Facebook pool forums, they’ll love you there …." Real professional.

Lastly, I used the LIQUID. See the INCLUDED PICTURE ABOVE. I did not use the GEL. Entire conversation saved.

Just because you CAN do something inadvisable doesn't mean you SHOULD do something inadvisable. A little bit of reasoning, commonsense, and logic goes a long way in life. But if you prefer to act like a 5 year old that screams, "You DIDN'T SAY I couldn't touch a burning hot stove!!!" then I'll be more than happy too watch the law of natural consequences do its good work.

When you're done hyperventilating and pretending to be offended and outraged, feel free to ask all the questions you like. But if your sensitive feelings are going to make it impossible for others too impart wisdom on you, you may want to go somewhere else where you will feel loved and affirmed ...

 

[TinFoilHat]

Why are you searching for "reviews" on forum members here? There could be others using the avatar names here on other forums. Heck, I stole mine from a guy who posted years ago on the DBSTalk forum. And then you believe what you read about random people on random forums or social media. That is what is driving this country down.

 

[swimmynoodle]

Why are you searching for "reviews" on forum members here? There could be others using the avatar names here on other forums. Heck, I stole mine from a guy who posted years ago on the DBSTalk forum. And then you believe what you read about random people on random forums or social media. That is what is driving this country down.

Why am I searching the internet?

 

[Ahhsomeguy]

Swimmynoodle: My name is Jerry, the Ahhsomeguy. I was perplexed while looking at your posting regarding the ahh-some cleaner. I think I know what happened. I would bet that you purchased the bottle from Amazon. A while back we made changes to that particular label in question. We pulled many bottles from Amazon and replaced them with the new bottle label. Apparently, you received an older label bottle. I am enclosing images of the new label front and back for your perusal. As you can see, we did note the usage instructions for jetted bathtub use and hot tub use. Many people call a jetted bathtub a hot tub. It can get quite confusing to the new owner for sure. We realized the initial label deficiency and made the necessary changes. The product is identical to the one you purchased. I would like to offer you 2 free bottles of the 16 oz. liquid hot tub/jetted bath cleaner or send you one of our newer 4 ounce gel in a squeeze tube. Please email me your name, address, city, state and zip and we will get it right out to you. Sorry for the confusion.