Am I at risk of an algae problem from topsoil runoff - muddy pool

[datadr93]

Pool opened 2 months ago. Salt generator was connected about month ago when the concrete form was completed (ran a chlorinator until then).

When first connected we could run pump at 1400 RPM and generator ran fine. We have come to point now we have to constantly increase RPM for the SWG to work. We're now at 2200 RPM.

Filter pressure is where it normally sits (depending on RPM). Clean filter at least twice per month.

What should we be looking at for the need to constantly increase RPM? Did the filtering of the concrete install do anything to the filter that cleaning is not fixing? There are zero scales on the cell.

Should we deep clean/soak filter? Questionable issue with SWG (iChlor15)?

 

[PoolStored]

First thing I would do is an overnight chlorine loss test. Link-->Overnight Chlorine Loss Test

If you fail OCLT, you need to SLAM...Link-->SLAM Process

If you have organics plugging the filter this will tell us. You may have algae and not see it.

Can you post a full set of results with your kit? FC, CC, pH, TA, CH, CYA and salt.

When was the last time you cleaned the filter and what was the condition? How did you clean it?

Cartridge Filter Use and Care - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Dirk]

Have a read of this on-going thread. It's very similar to yours, and might have some answers for you.

Minimum RPM for salt cell

Is there a minimum pump speed for the flow sensor on a salt system? Pool company set my minimum pump speed at 1750 rpm and I notice sometimes I get a "no flow" reading on the control unit. Any thoughts on this?

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Jimrahbe]

93,

My pool run 24/7/365 and I clean my filter once a year.. You clean your filter twice a month!!!

Why do you think that is?? What could be clogging your filter up that requires more flow from your pump to keep your SWCG working??

You do not have a mechanical issue... you have a chemical issue.. You have algae, even if you can't see it yet.

As pointed out above... you need to run an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test.. OCLT Overnight Chlorine Loss Test

When you fail the OCLT, then you need to run a SLAM...


Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[datadr93]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

Test results this morning:
FC: 6.5
CC: 0
pH: 7.6
Alkalinity: 90 (do I add acid to bring this down and then aerate to counter the pH?... we have 4 deck jets and only run them for evening entertainment)
CYA: 80
Calcium: 250
Salt: 3600
Borates: 50
Water temp: 85

Current flow rate at 2800 and have red flow light that goes back to green after few seconds (randomly turns red). Inspected filter yesterday and it was dirty with some gunk. Sprayed down until it was 'white.' Good to know from other threads that overcleaning is bad for filter. I'm new to this and check filter every 2 weeks... if it's dirty, I've been cleaning it. At low pump speeds (1500 to 2000) the psi barely breaks 10. At higher rates (2800 to 3100) the psi ranges 15 to 20.

Also, I keep a solar cover on pool overnight (how much does this impact flow rate?). But the flow rate light seems to appear even during the day when cover is off running at low RPM.

I'll run the OCLT tonite. Do I leave solar cover off during the overnight test? Also, do I run the test with the 0.2 or 0.5 factor tube measurement?

Two questions in the interim... when the concrete form was installed, my pool turned into a pond from all the concrete dust, concrete into pool when they were trowling, and concrete splashing in during the pour... would all this junk impact the filter? Took about 2 days for crystal clear water, but was there damage done that I should just replace the filter?

Side note regarding algae... the tanning ledge surface does feel slippery at times. I run broom over surface and the traction improves. Is that a sympton of algae or is that normal with a tanning ledge?

Ps... There's almost 20" of line leading to the SWG from the heat pump. SWG is mounted horizontally.

 

[sande005]

For the following, always read the filter pressure with the pump running at full speed:

The Jandy manual for the CS line doesn't give a recommended full speed pressure reading for a clean filter (that varies a lot from pool to pool), but their picture does show ~20 psi. And they warn that a pressure above 50 is dangerous. For normal use, they recommend cleaning when the pressure is 10 lbs above what the initial clean pressure was. So if yours is 20, wait until it is 30.
BUT - many here recommend only a 25% rise in pressure. So from 20 to 25.
So the burning question - what is your pressure when you have to bump up the pump speed to get the SWCG to work? (Turn up the pump to high to read the pressure, then back it down to what you need).
If you fail the OCLT, then it is algae plugging the filter, and you need to SLAM (and keep cleaning the filter as often as the pressure rises to the +25% level)
If you pass all three of the OCLT criteria, yet still have to frequently bump up pump speed, replace the filter cartridge with new. All that concrete stuff may have plugged it, and rather than deal with an intensive attempt to deep clean (which may or may not totally work), it is less hassle to just get a new cartridge.
Place your bets, but the odds favor algae....

 

[datadr93]

Filter cleaned yesterday
2000 RPM and have red flow light. Psi at 9.

2150 RPM and flow goes back and forth red/green (more red than green). PSI at 10

2300 RPM haven't seen go red yet (10 minutes). PSI at 11.

2800 RPM (clean mode for 6 hours). Green flow light and PSI at 19.

 

[sande005]

The PSI only indirectly tells us what the actual flow rate is. So it has to be an apples to apples comparison with the speed setting. Hence why I noted to compare only when the pump is at max speed (2800 rpm). A completely clean filter will give a base line, and as it plugs and the pressure rises, the flow through it will go down.
The assumption being, from your description the light goes out when running at a low speed (1400 or so) right after a cleaning. But you then a short time later have the light come on, and have to bump up the speed to turn it off. More and more as time goes on. That scenario points most likely to algae. Or a combination of algae and a partially permanently plugged filter.

IF though, even with a completely clean filter, your minimum speed to get the light out is now ~2200 all the time, and you never can go significantly lower, where once you used to - then yes, likely your filter is plugged from the concrete. $200+ is $200+ to replace it (or whatever it is for your specific model of filter), but that would be the next step.

 

[datadr93]

I'll run the OCLT tonite. Do I do this with solar cover on or off?

And the belief if I pass the OCLT... the filter got clogged during the concrete install. If I don't pass... could still be combo of algae and filter clogged

Other note... since the concrete was done, we have to really bump up the pump to have the deck jets function properly. I could previously have very large streams at lower setting. Now I have to nearly max out the RPMs (over 3000) with a clean filter.

 

[PoolStored]

I keep a solar cover on pool overnight (how much does this impact flow rate?

Doesn't...

Do I leave solar cover off during the overnight test?

On

would all this junk impact the filter? Took about 2 days for crystal clear water, but was there damage done that I should just replace the filter?

It could have, if the filter was not cleaned properly...

Cartridge Filter Use and Care - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Is that a sympton of algae or is that normal with a tanning ledge?

Algae

And the belief if I pass the OCLT... the filter got clogged during the concrete install. If I don't pass... could still be combo of algae and filter clogged

If you pass, then clean the filter properly as described in the link above. If it still behaves the same way, put in new cartridges.

 

[datadr93]

Side note regarding algae... the tanning ledge surface does feel slippery at times. I run broom over surface and the traction improves. Is that a sympton of algae or is that normal with a tanning ledge? Is that a sympton of algae or is that normal with a tanning ledge?

Algae

I have to ask further on this one. I've viewed other posts, in TFP and others, and slippery tanning ledges do appear to be a potential hazard in general. Most folks inquire about tack strips or means to make less slippery. Not dismissing your reply... but gives me further questions to ask.

I'll know better tomorrow morning after complete the OCTL test.

 

[sande005]

My slope from shallow to deep gets slippery unless I brush/vac first. OCLT says I don't have algae. Or at least not enough to fail the OCLT. My theory is other biofilm (bacteria) that are more resistant. But whatever it is, brushing eliminates it.

 

[datadr93]

My slope from shallow to deep gets slippery unless I brush/vac first. OCLT says I don't have algae. Or at least not enough to fail the OCLT. My theory is other biofilm (bacteria) that are more resistant. But whatever it is, brushing eliminates it.

The only areas I get that slippery feel are on the tanning ledge, top step, and a seat ledge (far end of pool) that is just as deep as tanning ledge. I brush them all down once a week (Saturday morning) and they're good all weekend long (Dolphin can't clean these areas since so shallow). Same slick feeling on waterline where Dolphin can't reach (areas I just mentioned)... quick brush and all good.

 

[datadr93]

I'll run the OCLT tonite. Do I do this with solar cover on or off?

And the belief if I pass the OCLT... the filter got clogged during the concrete install. If I don't pass... could still be combo of algae and filter clogged

Other note... since the concrete was done, we have to really bump up the pump to have the deck jets function properly. I could previously have very large streams at lower setting. Now I have to nearly max out the RPMs (over 3000) with a clean filter.

Have to ask if this is a bad night to do the OCLT.

Landscapers out today to add topsoil and push the clay up against new pad. Created a dusty, muddy mess all around pool. Then we had a fairly heavy rain that lasted about 60 minutes. Pool went from crystal clear to foggy.

Should I wait to clear things up or go forward with the OCLT tonight? I'm still wondering with all the work in the 2 months we installed the pool if all the junk that has fallen into pool hasn't clogged it up fairly well despite best efforts to keep clean (thus the frequent cleanings when I saw the PSI jump). Worst case scenario, I buy the new filter (an extra $100 cost at this point doesn't even matter... LOL) and keep the original as a backup for those 'oh Darn' moments.

 

[PoolStored]

Tanning ledge likely has low circulation. Areas with lower circulation can get algae first. If brushing eliminates the slippery, it’s likely algae.

If chlorinated properly it will take care of any organic sun the pool. OCLT TONIGHT.

 

[datadr93]

Tanning ledge likely has low circulation. Areas with lower circulation can get algae first. If brushing eliminates the slippery, it’s likely algae.

If chlorinated properly it will take care of any organic sun the pool. OCLT TONIGHT.

Will do.

And the tanning ledge has 1 jet... it is pointed upwards to create a bubbler effect since it's so close to waterline to provide aeration.

 

[datadr93]

OCLT results
Evening: FC 7.8, CC 0
Morning: FC 7.4, CC 0.2

Heavy rains all night. Going to do a drain shortly. With the winds blew lots of new topsoil into pool. Water nice and brown so I'll put the pump on overtime. Will do a full test later.

Opinions welcome but leaning towards filter is clogged with concrete. Ordered another (arrives Thursday) and will attempt soak original and use as backup.

SWG minimum now is 3100 RPM.

 

[Newdude]

Switch to 10ml testing and each drop is 0.5 FC. The point 2 never saved anybody if the # before the decimal point is too low.

 

[datadr93]

Switch to 10ml testing and each drop is 0.5 FC. The point 2 never saved anybody if the # before the decimal point is too low.

Usually do. Only did the 25mL test for this procedure.

 

[Newdude]

It still won't save you. At best you'll get a borderline pass with the higher resolution if it was close and I like to pass with flying colors.