AquaRite generator displaying "HOT" (with brand new T-Cell)

[kayzee]

Background:

• I have a VSP pump that runs at 22% (very low) during the day.
• I have AquaRite rev 1.40 with a brand new T-CELL-15.

PROBLEM:
This year I'm getting a "HOT" message more often than I like to see. When I notice it in the shed, the cell feels very warm. The temperature reading on the SWG is over 100F and I know the pool water is 85F. I then increase the pump speed to circulate the water faster and the SWG temperature cools down and the HOT message goes away.

QUESTIONS:

1. Why does the cell get so hot when there's low flow if the No Flow light is on (i.e. the SWG detects low flow, so why woult it get hot)?
2. Is the SWG trying to toggle generation on/off and thus heats itself up?
3. Do I need a higher minimum flow on my VSP just to prevent "No Flow" on the SWG (and presumably also prevent the cell from heating up)?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

Show us picture of your pool equipment and the SWG location.

Is the SWG in the sun during the day?

 

[TinFoilHat]

It sounds like all of the heat in the shed is accumulating in your salt cell and at low speed there isn't enough cooler water moving through it to take the heat away. You do want the flow to be high enough to keep the cell generating so that is an adjustment you'll need to make in your motor speed. Once you find the lowest speed at which the cell will work, then bump the speed another 200 rpm as a safety cushion.

 

[kayzee]

Welcome to TFP.

Show us picture of your pool equipment and the SWG location.

Is the SWG in the sun during the day?

Thanks. Long time listener, first time caller

The SWG is in a shed with my heater, pump, filter. The shed has airflow through a window but otherwise it can get warm in there during the day.

 

[kayzee]

It sounds like all of the heat in the shed is accumulating in your salt cell and at low speed there isn't enough cooler water moving through it to take the heat away. You do want the flow to be high enough to keep the cell generating so that is an adjustment you'll need to make in your motor speed. Once you find the lowest speed at which the cell will work, then bump the speed another 200 rpm as a safety cushion.

Thanks. Unfortunately this was my initial reaction and likely what I will do to solve the problem. I'm just surprised that the cell with a flow meter and Low Flow is allowing the cell to continue to try. I wonder if the flow is just enough that the SWG toggles between a Good and Low flow state, causing it to retain the heat from turning on/off.

If I find a min. flow that keeps the SWG happy, would I be able to decrease the % output of the SWG since it will now generate chlorine all day? (I don't love the idea of the SWG never having time to relax though).

 

[ajw22]

(I don't love the idea of the SWG never having time to relax though).

What % are you running the SWG at?

If not 100% the SWG goes to idle once it has generated for the set % of its 180 minute cycle t8me.

 

[kayzee]

What % are you running the SWG at?

If not 100% the SWG goes to idle once it has generated for the set % of its 180 minute cycle t8me.

Right now I'm at 25%, which produces enough chlorine for my pool. But now I suppose my question above doesn't matter. Would these 2 scenarios generate roughly the same chlorine?

1. 40% SWG with my pump running 12 hours (too slow to properly generate) and 12 hours fast enough
or
2. 20% with my pump always running fast enough for 24 hours

 

[ajw22]

Right now I'm at 25%, which produces enough chlorine for my pool. But now I suppose my question above doesn't matter. Would these 2 scenarios generate roughly the same chlorine?

1. 40% SWG with my pump running 12 hours (too slow to properly generate) and 12 hours fast enough
or
2. 20% with my pump always running fast enough for 24 hours

Yes, you get the same FC generated.

At 20% the cell generates for 36 minutes and rests for 144 minutes every 3 hours.

 

[kayzee]

Yes, you get the same FC generated.

At 20% the cell generates for 36 minutes and rests for 144 minutes every 3 hours.

It’s a shame though with a VSP. I really liked the idea of keeping my pump on very low during the day and increasing the speed at night. With a single speed and mechanical timer, the SWG would shut down (and not overheat).

Is the only solution here to keep the pump running at a higher minimum? (If so, I hope it’s not much higher than what I have).

 

[JamesW]

Is the cell a genuine Hayward?

What is the temperature reading when the pump is on?

If you have flow, the temperature reading should be accurate.

Try putting the cell hump down.

 

[kayzee]

Is the cell a genuine Hayward?

What is the temperature reading when the pump is on?

If you have flow, the temperature reading should be accurate.

Try putting the cell hump down.

Cell is a genuine Hayward and the hump is down.

I noticed the HOT message this evening. The heater wasn't running today and it was around 7pm. When I got home, I turned on the pump for probably 3-4 minutes to start vacuuming before I went into the shed and noticed the HOT message.

LEDs:
- Power: solid
- Generating: flashing
- No other LEDs were on

Readings on the SWG:
Temp: 88 (actual pool temp was 84)
Cell voltage: 30.0
Cell amperage: 0.0
Output: 25%
Instant salt: 0
Program code: AL-1 (not sure why this is AL-1 and not AL-0 but according to a search, it doesn't seem to matter)
Board Revision: r 1.40

The temp is only 88 on the SWG but HOT was still showing. I toggled the power switch Off then Auto and the message went away.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Without reading this thread again, is there a chance that your cell has power before water flows? I ask because the cell with just water resting in it would get hot from the ambient air in the shed and that hot water could easily trigger the HOT message. Not only that but the filter would also be filled with very hot water too. You always want the cell to power up after the pump has run and built up pressure and water flow, and then the cell needs to turn off before the pump would turn off.

 

[JamesW]

The temp is only 88 on the SWG but HOT was still showing.

Hot is 140 degrees Fahrenheit, which is 60 degrees Celsius.

Maybe the reading is in metric?

88 degrees celsius = 190.4 degrees fahrenheit

 

[kayzee]

Hot is 140 degrees Fahrenheit, which is 60 degrees Celsius.

Maybe the reading is in metric?

88 degrees celsius = 190.4 degrees fahrenheit

Unfortunately I’m 98% sure this is not the case. Normally the cell shows the same temp in °F as my automaton controller (also in °F)

 

[kayzee]

Without reading this thread again, is there a chance that your cell has power before water flows? I ask because the cell with just water resting in it would get hot from the ambient air in the shed and that hot water could easily trigger the HOT message. Not only that but the filter would also be filled with very hot water too. You always want the cell to power up after the pump has run and built up pressure and water flow, and then the cell needs to turn off before the pump would turn off.

My pump is normally never off. It runs 22% during the day and 50-90% overnight. I’ve always seen the HOT messages when the pump is running at 22% (almost the min rpm of my VSP pump. The automation controller thermometer is after the pump and filter but before the heater.

When the heater is running, the SWG, which is after the heater, shows around 95°F.

It really seems like I can’t run the pump so low during the day.

 

[JamesW]

Can you show pictures of everything?

None of this is really making any sense.

 

[kayzee]

Can you show pictures of everything?

None of this is really making any sense.

Sure. Here is my setup. I can share pics of the SWG but I described the values I witnessed in my previous post.

I know you guys are experts, but I just labeled the first pic for ease. You can see the Omni logic temp sensor is before the heater of course. It reads the actual temp (~86F) but the temp sensor in the SWG will read in the mid-90's if the heater is on, otherwise it's close to the Omni sensor. Except when the HOT message was visible (and the actual CELL was hot to the touch).

 

[TinFoilHat]

So you say that you run your filter and salt cell for the majority of the day. And I see that you're in Canada, eh, so you wouldn't see the temps I was imagining in your shed. The fact that you say the cell itself gets hot to the touch would lead me to a bad cell or a bad board overdriving the cell. As long as water is running through the cell the entire time it's on then it should never get hot, as long as the heater isn't heating the water running through it. I would think that you would want the cell to be before the heater.

 

[JamesW]

The heater display shows LO, which means Limit Open, which is usually a low flow issue.

Maybe the heater is running with too little flow.

How much fresh air is provided for the heater?

Indoor heaters have to have plenty of fresh air.

 

[JamesW]

I would think that you would want the cell to be before the heater.

That is not a good idea.