Disappointed in TF100 test kit

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G

gkoulomz

Member
Aug 16, 2017
17
Bridgehampton, NY
Pool Size
30000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Hello,
I have recently converted my pool to SWG. Per recommendations on TFP, I purchased the TF Pro test kit. Since I already had purchased a Taylor salt test, I got the regular TF-Pro, rather than the "Salt" variant. I used it today for the first time.
To be honest, I am disappointed:
  • The CYA test maxes out at 30. SWG recommendations in TFP are much higher than that. So, unless there is an adaptation, I effectively cannot use this test without diluting my samples. In addition, the cya mixing bottle's dropper/outlet was clogged (more likely holed never formed during manufacturing). I had to cut it.
  • there is no drop-based pH test. You have to use the color comparison tests. Taylor used to have a nice drop based test which measured pH and acid demand.
  • the "daily" Cl test is also a color comparison test. It maxes out at 5ppm, which is also well below SWG recommendations.
  • Reliance on color comparison tests does not work, at least not for me. Leaving aside the issue of testable range, the problem is that it is too difficult to distinguish "hue" from "saturation" in these tests, i.e. a sample can have the saturation of one value, and the hue of another (at least so it seems to my eyes). Additionally, having used a Taylor test kit years ago, the reference colors tend to get scratched and fade with time. This is EXACTLY WHY I wanted a drop-based kit!
Also, given the inadequacies of this kit, why are TFP folks so down on the Lamotte ColorQ test kits??
Does anyone have any suggestions??
Thanks,
George
 
The CYA test actually maxes out at 100. The minimum it measures accurately is 30 ppm. The numbers get larger as you move down the tube.

Taylor does use a color comparator for the pH test. The acid demand test is done with drops. The TF kits don't use this component because Pool Math will provide a better estimate of the amount of acid needed to affect pH.

We don't normally use the FC color (OTO) comparator test. As you stated, it only measures up to 5 ppm and doesn't do it accurately.

The only test that truly uses color matching is the pH test. Others are either color change or drop till clear type tests.
 
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George,

I have had the LaMotte Color Q and I like it... Kind-of.. :mrgreen:

I think it does an excellent job of accurately measuring FC up to 10 ppm, and reading ph..

That said it does not do a very good job of measuring TA, CH and CYA.

The Calcium Hardness test does not actually test CH, but Total Hardness. Depending on your water, this can be very different than CH.

The CYA test varies a great deal depending on the batch of tablets... I've had up to a 30 ppm difference between batches.

I am not sure why, but the TA test never agreed with my original TF-100, nor my newer TF-Pro..

Because of this I only use my ColorQ for testing FC and pH..

If you have the Color Q, then you should just use both kits and compare the results.

And... the CYA test is NOT a drop test and it makes sense that you would have to cut the tip of the bottle.. As mentioned above, the CYA test measures up to 100 ppm. A CYA of 30 is the minimum the test can read.

I have been around TFP a long time, and I have never used the color match FC test.. You should be using the FAS-DPD test when testing FC.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
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gkoulomz said:
Hello,
I have recently converted my pool to SWG. Per recommendations on TFP, I purchased the TF Pro test kit. Since I already had purchased a Taylor salt test, I got the regular TF-Pro, rather than the "Salt" variant. I used it today for the first time.
To be honest, I am disappointed:
  • The CYA test maxes out at 30. SWG recommendations in TFP are much higher than that. So, unless there is an adaptation, I effectively cannot use this test without diluting my samples. In addition, the cya mixing bottle's dropper/outlet was clogged (more likely holed never formed during manufacturing). I had to cut it.
  • there is no drop-based pH test. You have to use the color comparison tests. Taylor used to have a nice drop based test which measured pH and acid demand.
  • the "daily" Cl test is also a color comparison test. It maxes out at 5ppm, which is also well below SWG recommendations.
  • Reliance on color comparison tests does not work, at least not for me. Leaving aside the issue of testable range, the problem is that it is too difficult to distinguish "hue" from "saturation" in these tests, i.e. a sample can have the saturation of one value, and the hue of another (at least so it seems to my eyes). Additionally, having used a Taylor test kit years ago, the reference colors tend to get scratched and fade with time. This is EXACTLY WHY I wanted a drop-based kit!
Also, given the inadequacies of this kit, why are TFP folks so down on the Lamotte ColorQ test kits??
Does anyone have any suggestions??
Thanks,
George
Click to expand...

I hate the color comparison tests too--too subjective. I didn't know there was a drop-based kit for pH testing. Off to Amazon! Thanks!

(Sorry I don't have any help to offer. Just agreement and moral support.)
 
Thanks for everyone's comments!
My critique of the CYA test was incorrect, and I withdraw it!
I stand by my critique of the comparator tests, esp. pH. I am thinking I will either use my ColorQ for those, or get a pH meter.
Nate at TFTests says the kits were designed before SWG became a common thing. I suggest he should tailor the "salt" version to be more useful to SWG users.
 
I always thought I had trouble with Ph color match so started asking wife and daughter for their opinions, but turns out I wasn't having trouble, as they never had significantly different opinions. Any ph in the 7s is fine so I approach it more as "am I seeing more of the pink (high 7s) or the orange (mid 7s)" if I consistently see more/intense pink then I'll add MA to drop it by 0.2 or thereabouts.

White background behind it helps, and I recall other members cutting a piece of paper or note card such that you only see one square at a time as you make your comparison.

You can also play around w adding a drop less or a drop (or two?) more and see if that makes it easier.


What do you mean by making the TF Pro more useful to SWCG users? That the salt test should be default included rather than add on? I just toss my R-0600 the in the trash if I need to make space for the salt test components.
 
gkoulomz said:
I am thinking I will either use my ColorQ for those, or get a pH meter.
Click to expand...
George,

I also bought a couple of different pH meters ... A cheap one, and than a more expensive one...

In my opinion, the ColorQ beats a pH meter hands down!!!


gkoulomz said:
suggest he should tailor the "salt" version to be more useful to SWG users.
Click to expand...

I am not sure what you mean?? The only difference is the addition of the salt test reagents.. Other than salt, the two pools use the same tests.. What else could be tailored???

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Jimrahbe said:
George,

I have had the LaMotte Color Q and I like it... Kind-of.. :mrgreen:

I think it does an excellent job of accurately measuring FC up to 10 ppm, and reading ph..

That said it does not do a very good job of measuring TA, CH and CYA.

The Calcium Hardness test does not actually test CH, but Total Hardness. Depending on your water, this can be very different than CH.

The CYA test varies a great deal depending on the batch of tablets... I've had up to a 30 ppm difference between batches.

I am not sure why, but the TA test never agreed with my original TF-100, nor my newer TF-Pro..

Because of this I only use my ColorQ for testing FC and pH..

If you have the Color Q, then you should just use both kits and compare the results.

And... the CYA test is NOT a drop test and it makes sense that you would have to cut the tip of the bottle.. As mentioned above, the CYA test measures up to 100 ppm. A CYA of 30 is the minimum the test can read.

I have been around TFP a long time, and I have never used the color match FC test.. You should be using the FAS-DPD test when testing FC.

Thanks,

Jim R.
Click to expand...
Jim - I think I will follow your advice and take a hybrid approach. I will compare ColorQ to TF-Pro, and see if ColorQ is good enough for daily rough-n-ready tests.
 
Pauls234 said:
I always thought I had trouble with Ph color match so started asking wife and daughter for their opinions, but turns out I wasn't having trouble, as they never had significantly different opinions. Any ph in the 7s is fine so I approach it more as "am I seeing more of the pink (high 7s) or the orange (mid 7s)" if I consistently see more/intense pink then I'll add MA to drop it by 0.2 or thereabouts.

White background behind it helps, and I recall other members cutting a piece of paper or note card such that you only see one square at a time as you make your comparison.

You can also play around w adding a drop less or a drop (or two?) more and see if that makes it easier.


What do you mean by making the TF Pro more useful to SWCG users? That the salt test should be default included rather than add on? I just toss my R-0600 the in the trash if I need to make space for the salt test components.
Click to expand...
I mean that it should comfortably measure the much higher pH values recommended for SWG. And, if possible, it should offer a titration based pH test. The comparator tests can probably be omitted.
 

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There is no reasonable titration based pH test.
Not sure what you mean by higher pH values for SWCG. Keep your pH in the 7's. Matters not whether you are using liquid chlorine or SWCG.
 
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Jimrahbe said:
George,

I also bought a couple of different pH meters ... A cheap one, and than a more expensive one...

In my opinion, the ColorQ beats a pH meter hands down!!!




I am not sure what you mean?? The only difference is the addition of the salt test reagents.. Other than salt, the two pools use the same tests.. What else could be tailored???

Thanks,

Jim R.
Click to expand...
I mean that it should comfortably measure the much higher pH values recommended for SWG. And, if possible, it should offer a titration based pH test. The comparator tests can probably be omitted. Perhaps a Borates test as well, as TFP tends to recommend Borax, and my understanding is that Borates also can act as a buffer and resist pH change.
 
George,

I have three pools and look at them 3 times a week. I generally only test FC and pH using my ColorQ. About once a month, or so, I bring a water sample home and test everything with my TF-Pro Salt.

It works well for me.. But then, they are all saltwater pools, and they tend to make me pretty lazy. :mrgreen:

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
mknauss said:
There is no reasonable titration based pH test.
Not sure what you mean by higher pH values for SWCG. Keep your pH in the 7's. Matters not whether you are using liquid chlorine or SWCG.
Click to expand...
What I mean is that TFP recommends pH in the 7.7 range, no? Are you suggesting that recommendation is wrong? Unnecessary? I would like to understand....
 
gkoulomz said:
I mean that it should comfortably measure the much higher pH values recommended for SWG. And, if possible, it should offer a titration based pH test. The comparator tests can probably be omitted.
Click to expand...
The pH values for SWG vs non-SWG are the same.

The comparator block provides an economical way to measure pH. Some find the pH test works better for them when using 4 drops instead of the recommended 5 drops. Other options to measure pH are more expensive and just not necessary in most all cases.

The chlorine side of the compararor block is good to see if there is chlorine in the pool water and as a check against the FAS-DPD test at super high (above SLAM level) FC. Still, it's just a is there chlorine or not test. Some of us, once ywe get really comfortable with testing and knowing our pool's needs, can use the chlorine side of the comparator block as a close estimate of our chlorine level - but FAS-DPD tests for FC are still more accurate.

The TFTestkits branded kits provide the necessary tests that homeowmers need for a reasonable price.
They provide more tests for those items a homeowner will test for more often and their customer service is second to none.
 
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I use the comparator block for two things. First my FC better be at a very obvious 5 and second my PH better be very obviously below 8.0. I suppose the PH should also be above 7.0, but low ph generally isn’t an issue for me. At first I struggled seeing the ph levels. I got a separate digital ph reader and it came in about where I was seeing.

I do struggle with the CYA test. I’m not sure if I have 40,50, or 60. But now that I can keep my FC at 5, I don’t really care. Someone here gave me great advice, and it was basically this is what works for my pool but you have to figure out your pool. My pool is only open from May to the end of September, it only gets full sun from 10 to 4. The air temps in season average 80-90. The pool temps avg between 78-85. I have a lot of pollen in the early season, not so much now. We have a lot of swimmers around 2pm when we have full sun, so now I boost the swg during that time.

The great thing about the Tftest kit though is you post your results here, ask your question, and all of these nice people give you advice. I had a pool in the early 2000’s and vowed to never have one again when I sold that house. I just built a new one and I haven’t anxiety about it. Test, follow Pool math, have a question, then just ask.
 

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