Chlorine Problems

[Drd]

I'm having trouble keeping free chlorine levels in my pool. My CYA is 55 and I'm affraid to put in any more in. I put in the recommended amount chlorine in the pool and it's all gone in 24 hrs. My PH is 8 or above and TA is 150 right now (recently check city water and it was ph 7.8 and ta 100). I live in AZ so yes the sun is intense and the temps are high and the water is very warm approx 85 right now as we are hovering around 110F out and I'm beginning to wonder if I can even do unstablized chlorine if it isn't constantly being replenished. I'm skimming and cleaning out baskets daily. I added non chlorine shock to oxidize the organic stuff so less work on my free chlorine and added algaecide 60 to try and control things too. I have shocked the pool with Cal hypo too but my CH is high so I try to avoid it. Do I need higher CYA then, but then that means I need to use more chlorine. A HASA rep that came over told me he only uses 10 ppm CYA and although I know that will mean less chlorine based on the formula how can it possibly be enough to sanitize given our enviornment? I'm reading that the high PH/TA is not as important as the CYA levels. My tests right now was 10 ppm free CL this morning and 1 ppm by 7pm this evening, granted I am battling with algae blooms off and on because of the low free chlorine levels. I tackle the algae as soon as I notice and I check my pool daily because I can't seem to keep Chlorine in the pool and I'm going through a lot and it's not cheap. So much conflicting info out there by those in the industry too, I'm really confused now.

 

[Flying Tivo]

You need at least 70 if not 80ppm cya in AZ during summer. Before adding make anOvernight Chlorine Loss Test if you pass then add if not then SLAM Process.

 

[Texas Splash]

Yeah, it sounds like you still have algae and never really completed the SLAM Process through to its completion. If you stick with the SLAM Process protocol and pass all 3 SLAM criteria, then you can be assured increasing the CYA is safe and a good move. I agree with Flying Tivo, once you are algae-free, get that CYA up to at least 70. Whether it's AZ, NM, TX, etc, heat is heat and we all get pounded with it. But nothing you throw in the water will change anything until you complete the SLAM Process first. Oh, and stick to liquid pool chlorine. You certainly never need to use cal-hypo with your hard water, and I would avoid the other products as well. Just a waste of $$$. Liquid chlorine is the tool of choice right now.

 

[Drd]

Thank you for your insite you both seem to be on the same page about doing the "Slam" I guessing is intense shocking with liquid chlorine. I'm sure you are right, although the water looks clear and free of alage, I apparently have not snuffed it out completely hense why I am using up a lot of chlorine. As far as increasing the CYA level from 55 to 70/80 ppm, I'm guessing it's because you think I need to maintain a higher chlorine bed in my pool and therefore need more CYA to protect it. Because CYA at 70 will require me to maintain a higher chlorine bed min of 5.25 ppm which is the limit to swim in vs now CL of 4 ppm (that is if it wasn't getting all used up on killig alage). It is my understanding that you use up half your free chlorine bed in a day and then you add that back at night. Any pool calculator has a Min number and Target number which is about twice the minimum mine was 4 ppm min with a max Target of 9 and I'm not sure 70 CYA covers that amount max Chlorine level either. I would think I would my CYA at 120 ppm to protect that amount of free Chlorine based on the formula and it certainly is not something you can swim in. This is where I go off the rails with the chemistry stuff. BTW, I do use a Taylor test kit

The other issue is my PH/TA levels are resisting coming down I have used a ton of PH down about 1 1/2 bags of Chlorox 93% dry acid that weights 5 lbs a bag (approx 120 oz) now and the PH has come down from 8+ to 7.8 now and TA is still not budging from 150. I have noticed in testing that it is taking a drop less of acid to lower it to the ideal 7.6. I have read othecomplain that Dry acid doesn't bring the TA down like muriadic acid does and some say acid is acid 7.5 oz dry acid by volume/10 oz by Weight = 1cup/8 oz of muriatic acid period and they have the same effect on TA too, but that's not my experience (per the Geek). I can't use muriatic acid for heath reasons and the non fume type like Magic Acid I like a lot is double the price at 14-18 dollars a gallon now, where as dry acid is about 2.00 more. But if I am going to use 10 X's what the test kit says I have to ad to reduce my numbers, I need to go back to Magic Acid then if I can find it.

 

[PoolStored]

As far as increasing the CYA level from 55 to 70/80 ppm, I'm guessing it's because you think I need to maintain a higher chlorine bed in my pool and therefore need more CYA to protect it.

Other way around. CYA protect the FC, with high UV in AZ, a higher CYA will protect more of your FC, and you will lose less. The level of FC that you need to keep is higher, but you will reduce your loss with higher CYA. Either way, always follow this...Link-->FC/CYA Levels

The other issue is my PH/TA levels are resisting coming down I have used a ton of PH down about 7 cups now and the PH has come down from 8+ to 7.8 now and TA is not budging at 150. I have noticed in testing that it is taking a drop less of acid to lower it to the ideal 7.6. I have read others complain that Dry acid doesn't bring the TA down like muriadic acid does and some say acid is acid 7.5 cups by volume = 1 cup of muriatic acid period and they have the same effect on TA too, but that's not my experience. I can't use muriatic acid for heath reasons and the non fume type like Magic Acid I like a lot is double the price at 14-18 dollars a gallon now, where as dry acid is about 2.00 more. But if I am going to use 10 X's what the test kit says I have to ad to reduce my numbers, I need to go back to Magic Acid then if I can find it.

I would stop using pH down. It contains sulfates which damage metal and concrete. Better to use muriatic acid. Reducing TA is a long term endeavor (doesn't happen overnight). Have you tested your fill water TA? likely high.

 

[Texas Splash]

For the chlorine question, I like to kepe it very simple. We recommend leaving your CYA where it is now until you perform the SLAM Process simply so that your SLAM FC level is a bit lower to save you on chlorine. Once you pass the SLAM, you can then increase the CYA level and at the same time maintain the commensurate FC level for that CYA as noted on the FC/CYA Levels.

We frown on the use of dry acid due to side effects on the pool and equipment itself, but your health is more important. If you have a legitimate reason that prevents you from using muriatic acid, just do the best you can with other products. But try to adjust the pH from 8.0 down to 7.2 in one dosage each time. That should help to lower the TA as well.

 

[Drd]

Other way around. CYA protect the FC, with high UV in AZ, a higher CYA will protect more of your FC, and you will lose less. The level of FC that you need to keep is higher, but you will reduce your loss with higher CYA. Either way, always follow this...Link-->FC/CYA Levels


I would stop using pH down. It contains sulfates which damage metal and concrete. Better to use muriatic acid. Reducing TA is a long term endeavor (doesn't happen overnight). Have you tested your fill water TA? likely high.

I cannot use Muriatic acid period as I stated I have heath issues that prevent me from risking exposure to such damaging fumes. I can use it's alternate though Magic acid or equivilant but it's expensive. I dont' have any metal in my pool or water or have stains fron dry acid and I do dilute it in water before adding it to my pool return areas the same as muriactic acid so it doesn't etch the plaster surface since it is heavier than water. I am trying to follow your CYA logic and I just see it balancing out because the more CYA the more Chlorine, I would think you need to know what your santizer needs are as in how much Chlorine you need for the size pool, water temp and enivormental climate/UV light, once you know how much chlorine you need, then figure out the amount of CYA base you need to protect which should be .075 of your CYA. They say you sould maintain a base of CYA of 30-50 which is equal to 2.25-3.75 CH, but that is not enough Chlorine for our weather in AZ. I guess it's also why they recommend shocking once a week at night too to blast away the accumulation and allow your normal chlorine levels to be stable.

 

[PoolStored]

I cannot use Muriatic acid period as I stated

I need to go back to Magic Acid then if I can find it.

Sorry, I misread your comment about going back to Magic Acid as a possibility...

I am trying to follow your CYA logic and I just see it balancing out because the more CYA the more Chlorine, I would think you need to know what your santizer needs are as in how much Chlorine you need for the size pool, water temp and enivormental climate/UV light, once you know how much chlorine you need, then figure out the amount of CYA base you need to protect which should be .075 of your CYA. They say you sould maintain a base of CYA of 30-50 which is equal to 2.25-3.75 CH, but that is not enough Chlorine for our weather in AZ. I guess it's also why they recommend shocking once a week at night too to blast away the accumulation and allow your normal chlorine levels to be stable.

You pool will consume FC. It will consume more FC with a lower CYA, and consume less FC with a higher CYA. In areas where there is a high UV index, we would recommend a higher CYA. A higher CYA will have a lower daily FC Demand (lower daily consumption of FC with the same UV, because the higher CYA protects the FC).

The higher FC range that you need to keep your pool at, is not the same as your FC demand. That range is to keep enough sanitizer in the pool with higher CYA levels. It's just a higher level you maintain, it is not a higher level of FC that you have to add every day.

Putting it all together. At CYA 30, in summer, I need to add about 4FC every day due to UV. With a CYA of 60, I might need to add 2FC everyday. If I maintain the 30 CYA, my target range is 4-6FC. I start the day at 8, use 4ppm, end up at 4ppm and need to dose 4ppm to get back to 8. With a CYA of 60, my target range is 7-9. I would start my day at 9, use 2 during the day, and end up adding to 2 to get back to 9.

Hope that makes sense. Higher CYA reduces your chlorine demand (how much you have to add everyday), but raises the level of FC that you need to maintain.

 

[Flying Tivo]

I'm guessing it's because you think I need to maintain a higher chlorine bed in my pool and therefore need more CYA to protect it. Because CYA at 70 will require me to maintain a higher chlorine bed min of 5.25 ppm which is the limit to swim in vs now CL of 4 ppm (that is if it wasn't getting all used up on killig alage).

This statement leads me to believe you are not following Pool Care Basics, you can not mix and match info given by this site and the pool store, or anywhere else for that matter. You either do one or the other. FC/CYA Levels

 

[proavia]

CYA at 60 (your 55 rounds up to 60) is just fine in our desert climate in summer when not using a SWG.
I kept my CYA at 50 or 60 for years before I got my SWG. You can bump the CYA to 70 or even 80 if you find the daily FC loss excessively high mid-season. The higher CYA better protects the FC - even though you need to keep the FC a bit higher than at a lower CYA. Any higher CYA makes it difficult the consistently test pH or do a SLAM Process successfully at the required high SLAM FC levels.

You need to complete the SLAM Process
No short cuts, no "super slamming", no "intense shocking".

Have you tried the "low fume" muriatic acid - usually around 14.5%?
When adding, you need to determine the wind/breeze direction and keep the wind at your back.
With a little practice, you won't be exposed to fumes.
Anyone else in the household who can add the muriatic acid for you?

As for the FC minimum and target range based on CYA - you never want to let the FC drop to minimum (akin to falling off a cliff). You want to dose for high side of target range (or a few ppm higher if daily loss is high). The goal is to dose high enough so that the lowest the FC gets is the low end of target range. This provides a bit of a buffer for when something inevitably gets in the way of daily routine.

It is safe to swim when FC is between minimum and SLAM Process levels based on your CYA - and you can see the entire bottom of the pool (swimmer safety).

Post a full set of current test results from one of the recommemded test kits. Test Kits Compared
FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA
Water temperature

Have a read thru
Pool Care Basics
FC/CYA Levels
Overnight Chlorine Loss Test
SLAM Process
PoolMath

Here's some inspiration
How Clear is TFP Clear?

 

[Drd]

Sorry, I misread your comment about going back to Magic Acid as a possibility...


You pool will consume FC. It will consume more FC with a lower CYA, and consume less FC with a higher CYA. In areas where there is a high UV index, we would recommend a higher CYA. A higher CYA will have a lower daily FC Demand (lower daily consumption of FC with the same UV, because the higher CYA protects the FC).

The higher FC range that you need to keep your pool at, is not the same as your FC demand. That range is to keep enough sanitizer in the pool with higher CYA levels. It's just a higher level you maintain, it is not a higher level of FC that you have to add every day.

Putting it all together. At CYA 30, in summer, I need to add about 4FC every day due to UV. With a CYA of 60, I might need to add 2FC everyday. If I maintain the 30 CYA, my target range is 4-6FC. I start the day at 8, use 4ppm, end up at 4ppm and need to dose 4ppm to get back to 8. With a CYA of 60, my target range is 7-9. I would start my day at 9, use 2 during the day, and end up adding to 2 to get back to 9.

Hope that makes sense. Higher CYA reduces your chlorine demand (how much you have to add everyday), but raises the level of FC that you need to maintain.

I with you the difference is i had 55 ppm cya and you are talking 60 ppm, difference in Chlorine demand is .50 but in your scenerio with 5 ppm more CYA added to my pool I will not use up 50% of my starting FC bed to replace at end of day, just 25% now. The reason I am using unstablised liquid chlorine is because I am told a build up over 80 ppm will have an adverse effect and lock up (over secure) your FC not making it avialable requiring even higher does of chlorine to supplement. I hope you agree with this and are indicating CYA levels of 30-50 are actually flexable in that regard. I had a Phoenix HASA rep tell me he only uses 10 ppm CYA and 1-2 ppm FC in his pool although I can't remember what type pool he actually had either. This is the problem when we are not comparing apples to apples including the geographal ciimate conditionns too.

 

[Drd]

This statement leads me to believe you are not following Pool Care Basics, you can not mix and match info given by this site and the pool store, or anywhere else for that matter. You either do one or the other. FC/CYA Levels

What do you mean, it's CYA, CL, TA and PH, and their corresponding chemicals required to maintain them to santize the water to swim in. This information is universal! I am not siting any pool store most of the information I get there is wrong! Taylor Technologies is where I got the formula for the chlorine demand based on the amount of CYA you have in the pool recommened levels 30-50 ppm, at 30 ppm min (30 ppm CYA x .075 = 2.25 ppm CL) for a min and probably 5 target per pool calculator to start the day with as you lose about 50% through the course of the day is either burnt up by the sun/UV or used up to sanitize and has to be replenished by what ever method you choose. TA 80-100 but some people say they have to lower it to 60 ppm to stablize the PH which should be ideally around 7.6-7.8.

I am having alage blooms due to low chlorine levels causing a roller coaster effect mainly because I'm not maintain enough chlorine consistantly because I realize now I have not eliminated the alage completely, even though I don't see it and think it's gone, it really isn't and pops back up within days. I also have a lot of plant matter that gets in my pool due to winds so I add an non chlorine oxidizer to focus on that plus skim and empty skim basket daily too. The water is very warm at 110 degrees out which is also contributing to my problem and I can't leave my pump on all day long with the AC running or my electric bill is huge. If increasing my CYA a bit more is the answer then, then I'll give that a try, I just always understood the reason I was using unstablized Chlorine was tabs are 50% CYA or 6ppm per tab you put in your pool water, which adds up fast in AZ or you wind up having to buy more and more chlorine to santize due to high levels of CYA. What part of this is not true or pool store BS I'm not familiar with?

 

[PoolStored]

First, we teach that you round up your CYA to the next 10. Your CYA is 60.

The pool won't lock up. The fact is that higher levels of CYA require maintaining higher levels of FC. Period, full stop. North of about 80, it becomes extremely difficult to maintain enough FC to sanitize the pool.

The only real issue running CYA higher than 60 in a liquid chlorine pool is that a SLAM, if needed, becomes really hard. I haven't seen a successful slam with CYA of 80 or above. Even 70 consumes LOTS of chlorine. We have many users, with experience that will happily run a chlorine pool with 70 or 80. I did for a couple years until I got a SWCG. The issue there is the with chlorine, you typically dose once a day. If you have a high chlorine demand day and get out of range, get algae...hard slam. I had a liquid chlorine feeder, so I could dose throughout the day and keep FC level.

You can run 10, 30, 50, 60 ,70 or 80. All are acceptable, if you know how to manage your FC.
30-60 is a great range and allows easy SLAM if necessary. There is no VooDoo at 70 and 80, just implications for FC. If you live in Ohio, like me, 30 might be fine. In AZ, there are lots of LC pools that run 70 and 80 CYA. They use less chlorine as a result, they just need to maintain a higher FC level.

I hope this helps.

 

[Drd]

First, we teach that you round up your CYA to the next 10. Your CYA is 60.

The pool won't lock up. The fact is that higher levels of CYA require maintaining higher levels of FC. Period, full stop. North of about 80, it becomes extremely difficult to maintain enough FC to sanitize the pool.

The only real issue running CYA higher than 60 in a liquid chlorine pool is that a SLAM, if needed, becomes really hard. I haven't seen a successful slam with CYA of 80 or above. Even 70 consumes LOTS of chlorine. We have many users, with experience that will happily run a chlorine pool with 70 or 80. I did for a couple years until I got a SWCG. The issue there is the with chlorine, you typically dose once a day. If you have a high chlorine demand day and get out of range, get algae...hard slam. I had a liquid chlorine feeder, so I could dose throughout the day and keep FC level.

You can run 10, 30, 50, 60 ,70 or 80. All are acceptable, if you know how to manage your FC.
30-60 is a great range and allows easy SLAM if necessary. There is no VooDoo at 70 and 80, just implications for FC. If you live in Ohio, like me, 30 might be fine. In AZ, there are lots of LC pools that run 70 and 80 CYA. They use less chlorine as a result, they just need to maintain a higher FC level.

I hope this helps.

Yes, that is the problem with having high levels of CYA in your pool and why it was recommened to me to switch to unstablized liquid chlorine to control it or, otherwise I would just keep using tabs. And again, you also have to increase your Chlorine demand levels when you increase CYA levels, they go hand in hand. So far we are on the same page. I can add a bit more CYA if that really means it will help me maintain more of my chlorine by the end of the day even if I intially have to add more chlorine to create a higher bed to begin with.

But I don't want to swim in high levels of Chlorine as you do aborb it through the skin and is a kown carcinogen. Industry standard says 1-3 ppm for residential, 3-8 ppm for commercial, above that will cause discomfort and above 10 ppm, close pool to swimmers. Now if I start out highter and end later in the day within this range, that's fine; I wouldn't swim in the early afternoon anyway.

i have read up on the Slam process which is bascially keeping your pool in a shock state shocking continuously at high levels and maintain that level by adding the required amount of chlorine until your chlorine test doesn't require any more addition of chlorine to maintain that level, that means it's not having to kill alage anymore because it's all dead. I will do that so I know for sure it's gone and up my CYA and chlorine bed too. Thank you for help it's much appreciated.

 

[PoolStored]

I can add a bit more CYA if that really means it will help me maintain more of my chlorine by the end of the day even if I intially have to add more chlorine to create a higher bed to begin with.

Yep, you got it.

But I don't want to swim in high levels of Chlorine as you do aborb it through the skin and is a kown carcinagen. Industry standard say 1-3 ppm for residential, 3-8 for commercial, above that will cause discomfort 10ppm close pool to swimmers. Now if I start out highter and end later in the date within this rage that's fine I wouldn't swim in the early afternoon anyway.

This is just false.

HOCl is the sanitizing agent in FC. EPA limits HOCl in water to 4ppm as being safe to drink. Drinking water has no CYA.

Follow the blue line for 0 CYA, and the FC level at 4ppm, that is 1ppm of HOCl. Rough stuff.

Take an example pool water, 6ppm FC, orange line for 30 CYA, nets to less than 0.1ppm of HOCl. Even CYA 70 and FC of 10 is less than 0.1ppm of HOCl.

 

[Drd]

Yes, that is the problem with having high levels of CYA in your pool and why it was recommened to me to switch to unstablized liquid chlorine to control it or, otherwise I would just keep using tabs. And again, you also have to increase your Chlorine demand levels when you increase CYA levels, they go hand in hand. So far we are on the same page. I can add a bit more CYA if that really means it will help me maintain more of my chlorine by the end of the day even if I intially have to add more chlorine to create a higher bed to begin with.

But I don't want to swim in high levels of Chlorine as you do aborb it through the skin and is a kown carcinogen. Industry standard says 1-3 ppm for residential, 3-8 ppm for commercial, above that will cause discomfort and above 10 ppm, close pool to swimmers. Now if I start out highter and end later in the day within this range, that's fine; I wouldn't swim in the early afternoon anyway.

i have read up on the Slam process which is bascially keeping your pool in a shock state shocking continuously at high levels and maintain that level by adding the required amount of chlorine until your chlorine test doesn't require any more addition of chlorine to maintain that level, that means it's not having to kill alage anymore because it's all dead. I will do that so I know for sure it's gone and up my CYA and chlorine bed too. Thank you for help it's much appreciated.

Oh last question, does the movement of your water while the pump on and filtering cause a your PH to rise. I know things like rain or splashing can which disturbs the surface of the water, and I wondered when I see swirling by the jets if they are causing the same effect and raisingmy PH. I don't have adjustable jets on my pool where I can turn them downward but wuld that help?

 

[PoolStored]

Oh last question, does the movement of your water while the pump on and filtering cause a your PH to rise. I know things like rain or splashing can which disturbs the surface of the water, and I wondered when I see swirling by the jets if they are causing the same effect and raisingmy PH. I don't have adjustable jets on my pool where I can turn them downward but wuld that help?

pH rise is affected most when TA is high, or pH is low. Period, end of story.

pH rise will be minimal with pump running and filtering. To drive pH rise, you need to make LOTS of VERY TINY bubbles. Swirling of water will not make pH rise in any appreciable fashion. High TA or low pH will make pH rise.

I can drive TA down by 10TA in 12 hours in a 30K gallon pool with this, lowering pH to 7.0 then aerating...

IMG_0735.jpeg

• PoolStored
• Jun 26, 2024

A bit of swirl from a return will cause very little pH rise.

 

[Drd]

Yep, you got it.


This is just false.

HOCl is the sanitizing agent in FC. EPA limits HOCl in water to 4ppm as being safe to drink. Drinking water has no CYA.

Follow the blue line for 0 CYA, and the FC level at 4ppm, that is 1ppm of HOCl. Rough stuff.

Take an example pool water, 6ppm FC, orange line for 30 CYA, nets to less than 0.1ppm of HOCl. Even CYA 70 and FC of 10 is less than 0.1ppm of HOCl.
View attachment 589995

This is confusing, because every pool maintains CYA, but when we test for FC, CYA is not a factor, but it can be if to high in obtaining an accurate TA test result. HOCI is the cuased by the reaction of sanitizing in otherwords it comes in contact with bacteria.

Yep, you got it.


This is just false.

HOCl is the sanitizing agent in FC. EPA limits HOCl in water to 4ppm as being safe to drink. Drinking water has no CYA.

Follow the blue line for 0 CYA, and the FC level at 4ppm, that is 1ppm of HOCl. Rough stuff.

Take an example pool water, 6ppm FC, orange line for 30 CYA, nets to less than 0.1ppm of HOCl. Even CYA 70 and FC of 10 is less than 0.1ppm of HOCl.
View attachment 589995

This chart is a bit over my head to understand, sorry but thanks for trying. All I know is my test kit has a test for FC and that is my only gage on if my chlorine is balanced. I also understand PH is very inportant player with the effectivness of Chlorine too. I know that Chlorine is a gas and when combined with water forms an acid abreviated in chemistry terms as HOCI the active componet that does the sanitizing. Household bleach is less potent than pool Chlorine at much higher concentrations to water. The recommened concentration limits for swimming is the same as for drinking city water 4 ppm. Public pools and spas have higher limits. High concentrations of Chlorine are dangerous. I sometimes smell the off gasing fron chlorine standing by my pool and I'm told that actually means you don't have enough chlorine in the pool; I would think that means you have too much. If your logic is the CYA is somehow sequestering it and not available therefore the limits are inaccurate, the thing is the chlorine is in the water and so are you

 

[Texas Splash]

This chart is a bit over my head to understand, sorry but thanks for trying. All I know is my test kit has a test for FC and that is my only gage on if my chlorine is balanced. I also understand PH is very inportant player with the effectivness of Chlorine too. I know that Chlorine is a gas and when combined with water forms an acid abreviated in chemistry terms as HOCI the active componet that does the sanitizing. Household bleach is less potent than pool Chlorine at much higher concentrations to water. The recommened concentration limits for swimming is the same as for drinking city water 4 ppm. Public pools and spas have higher limits. High concentrations of Chlorine are dangerous. I sometimes smell the off gasing fron chlorine standing by my pool and I'm told that actually means you don't have enough chlorine in the pool; I would think that means you have too much. If your logic is the CYA is somehow sequestering it and not available therefore the limits are inaccurate, the thing is the chlorine is in the water and so are you

Good morning. I've been away from your thread for a while, but this particular conversation caught my eye for a few reasons, so I'd like to address them. First, I agree, that chart noted above is can be confusing and the FC/CYA relationship doesn't need to be. Not really sure why we're getting that much in depth here, but unless someone is a scientist, we simply realize (and can prove) that the FC needs to be balanced to the CYA per the FC/CYA Levels for optimal pool care (algae prevention and waste elimination). That's it, plain & simple. I suspect you've seen that here already. The only difference is how much FC to administer and maintain depending on the CYA level and/or if the pool water is sick or healthy (SLAM or not). Anything beyond that is a discussion in the Deep End forum for the science geeks IMO.

Outside of TFP you may hear the pH plays a role in FC effectiveness. To a very small degree perhaps, but it's not applicable here at TFP. As long as the pH is anywhere between 7.2-7.8, that so-called relationship doesn't even need to be addressed. There is no major interaction or influence between one or the other. Again, something for the Deep End perhaps, but not the regular TFP pool owner.

The recommended concentration limits for swimming is the same as for drinking city water 4 ppm. Public pools and spas have higher limits. High concentrations of Chlorine are dangerous.

Drinking water and pool water cannot be compared. Two totally different scenarios and chlorination requirements. Same goes for residential versus commercial/public pools. Completely different methods of water management. Chlorine is not dangerous unless it is misused, much like any other chemical. We can't speak for the rest of the country or industrial applications, but what we can confirm is that the FC/CYA Levels was developed by scientists affiliated with TFP over several years to not only ensure water clarity, but safety - both physical and biological.

I sometimes smell the off gasing fron chlorine standing by my pool and I'm told that actually means you don't have enough chlorine in the pool;

That is the combined chlorines being oxidized. Basically the trash/residual chlorine oxidizing from the water. You may notice that smell at public pools quite often. Nothing is wrong, and it doesn't mean you need to arbitrarily add more chlorine, it just means the free chlorine is doing its job. It is attacking the organic materials and the trash chlorine (CC) are being removed.

In summary, not really sure why this particular discussion went so much into depth or across a few different scenarios, but for the average TFP homeowner with a pool, TFP is all about simplicity. Now if you or anyone else has a strong concern about chemical relationships and wants to know more, feel free to visit the Deep End forum where they get WAY into the weeds about just about every chemical and molecular relationship you can think of. Way over my head. If you would like additional info to that degree and can't find the answer there by searching on your own, you are welcome to start a thread in that sub-forum and one of our science experts will gladly break it all down for you.

I hope that helps in some way.

 

[Drd]

My questions was simple and necessary concerns when someone tells you to use more than the recommended amount of chemicals you need to know why and what other issues it might create too. I keep being told the TFP way as though that should be any different pool care than anywhere else. It all breaks down to maintianing (sustain) chlorine levels to effectively stanitize the water with a slightly alkaline base, brushing walls, removing debra and maintaining clean filters and pumps to circulate all water at least once a day. What products you use will dictate what chemicals you add or remove and eventually TDS accomulination will requre some draining and refilling. To do this you need to test your chemical levels regularly. But does anyone care that higher levels of CYA also can result in inaccurate test results of TA too, that came from Taylor Technologies!

Apparently my problem is not enough chlorine in my pool is the culprit and apparently, although I can't see it or it's been small spurts of yellow alage, the bottom line is I need to make sure I've killed it all where my chorine will once again maintain without adding tons of chlorine all the time. I got the information on the 4 ppm from a reputable EPA site referencing pools. I'm just not comfortable swiming in high concentrations of chlorine simple as that, even though others say to ignore it.

The only other question I had was can the movement of water from the return jets during the pump run cause ph rise, because in my pool I can see it moving the surface water and could this be contributing to my problem PH rise? I have high PH issues too. My jets don't have adjustments to point downward but maybe I should if this is can be a contributing problem.