I've been able to operate this gorgeous pool since I moved in three years without help from a pool professional but I have finally met my match. What the heck are these? After extensive troubleshooting and only a vague guesstimate at what they do (something to do with pressure regulation?) I think that one of these must be bad.
PLEASE: Identify these components in Parallel Pump Configuration
- Thread starter fredclarkjr
- Start date
- Jun 24, 2021
- 16,157
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Check valves. Allow one way water flow. Looking at them, look to be on the suction side of the pump
Thanks yes that's them a check valve. A quick search indicates that they don't work in pulsing systems, and my system is not supposed to, but that's exactly what's happening. Water will build up in one of the pumps debris chamber, pressure rise, then it falls again, and process repeats. Any idea, should I replace them? Probably will anyway tbh...
Already swapped pumps, operation still good on one run and not the other so pumps are fine. Checked all plumbing and fittings. These are kind of the last component so I hope it is the actually.
Fred,
If both of those check valves are on the suction side of your pumps, then that is a big no-no...
You should never have two pumps connected to the same source..
Basically each pump "should" have its own water source.
Show us pics of the whole equipment pad and tell us what each pump is for.
Thanks,
Jim R.
If both of those check valves are on the suction side of your pumps, then that is a big no-no...
You should never have two pumps connected to the same source..
Basically each pump "should" have its own water source.
Show us pics of the whole equipment pad and tell us what each pump is for.
Thanks,
Jim R.
I was very surprised to see this myself. My intention of digging down was to determine if I could isolate one of the runs to the pool pump (left) and get a known good skimmer/ drain and work from there. Pool has 2 skimmers and 2 drains. But I guess none of that matters because everything funnels into this single line anyway.
The spa pump (right) is the one that's currently presenting more powerful (independent of actual pump used - each has been swapped) and then the pulsing action commences. Spa has two drains as well. The "spa pump" outlet is definitely a home run to the spa, and doesn't appear to be filtered at all. And the "pool pump" goes through the filter, a heater, then into a jandy valve between pool and spa. (FYI there's also a booster pump for the Polaris).
So like I said I've been here three years and have managed to use and enjoy the pool without really knowing what was happening plumbing-wise. If I wanted to heat the spa more quickly I'd set the jandy valve to limit the flow to the pool. But it is impossible to hear the spa without also heating the pool that much I figured and know I know why.
Here's some pictures. By the time you've replied perhaps I've already isolated the "pool pump" and seen if the issue is eliminated. Besides providing flow to the spa jets I actually don't think I need the rightmost pump at all. I'm gonna stop called it the spa pump, it's just two pumps, even tho it was labeled as a "spa pump" they both pull from both sources a better description would have been "jet pump". But I guess thats just semantics.
Oh yeah last thing, there is also some tubing going between the inlet side of the filter (outlet of left pump) and the outlet of heater (post jandy valve pool run) which seems to be important but I have no idea. My previous pool was much simpler a configuration this just went over my head.
And actually it appears I've explained the inlets entirely wrong, but I'm not sure what is actually happening. There is a jandy valve on the left of "pool pump" which actually may combine the skimmers and pool drains, that would make sense to me anyway. So the spa inlet and outlet is completely separate with the exception of this parallel piece of pipe with the check valve.
Please help
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Fred,
The problem is that when one pump turns on, if the check valve for the other pump is bad, the first pump will just suck all the water out of the second pump... !!! Most likely what you are calling pulsing..
You should never build a pool this way, but that is what you have..
Since it has worked for three years, if I were in your shoes, I'd replace the guts to both check valve with OEM parts.. Cheap parts my look the same, but they often will not work.
Let me look at your plumbing and see if I can think of a way around the problem..
Thanks,
Jim R.
The problem is that when one pump turns on, if the check valve for the other pump is bad, the first pump will just suck all the water out of the second pump... !!! Most likely what you are calling pulsing..
You should never build a pool this way, but that is what you have..
Since it has worked for three years, if I were in your shoes, I'd replace the guts to both check valve with OEM parts.. Cheap parts my look the same, but they often will not work.
Let me look at your plumbing and see if I can think of a way around the problem..
Thanks,
Jim R.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,353
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I believe someone retrofitted a spa jet pump into a spa with a single drain.
Refer to the picture below. Everything is subject to your verification and is my speculation.
The green diverter valve is your POOL/SPA suction. In the picture the diverter is choking off water flow into the main pump which is not good and may be causing your pulses. Turn that handle clockwise so that OFF aligns with your spa suction pipe. Now you should pull all the water from your pool and none from the spa.
The yellow diverter valve is your skimmer/main drain balance valve. Pipes are labeled A and B. You need to determine which pipe goes to the skimmers and which goes to the main drain.
Red diverter valve is your POOL/SPA return valve. Right now it is set for 50/50 flow between pool and spa. The diverter is blocking both pipes and is not an efficient setting but we can get back to that later.
With your setup by adjusting the red and green valves you can:
We can discuss other permutations of valve settings.
The pool can be heated independently of the spa.
The spa can be heated independently of the pool.
The only kludge in this was the sharing of the spa suction drain to have a separate spa jet pump.
I would spring for new handles for your diverter valves.
Refer to the picture below. Everything is subject to your verification and is my speculation.
The green diverter valve is your POOL/SPA suction. In the picture the diverter is choking off water flow into the main pump which is not good and may be causing your pulses. Turn that handle clockwise so that OFF aligns with your spa suction pipe. Now you should pull all the water from your pool and none from the spa.
The yellow diverter valve is your skimmer/main drain balance valve. Pipes are labeled A and B. You need to determine which pipe goes to the skimmers and which goes to the main drain.
Red diverter valve is your POOL/SPA return valve. Right now it is set for 50/50 flow between pool and spa. The diverter is blocking both pipes and is not an efficient setting but we can get back to that later.
With your setup by adjusting the red and green valves you can:
- Filter and heat your pool and spa with your spa spillover running (Green valve OFF over SPA suction pie; red valve split 50/50 between spa and pool)
- Filter and heat your spa only (green valve OFF over POOL suction pipe; red valve OFF over POOL return pipe)
- Run your spa jets and NOT filter and heat your spa (green valve OFF over SPA suction; main pump off; jet pump on)
We can discuss other permutations of valve settings.
The pool can be heated independently of the spa.
The spa can be heated independently of the pool.
The only kludge in this was the sharing of the spa suction drain to have a separate spa jet pump.
I would spring for new handles for your diverter valves.
Last edited:
The arrows indicate the direction of flow.
The left check valve has had the lid rotated 90 degrees to disable the check valve.
The flapper looks like it has been removed as well.
The arrow should only be lined up with the direction of flow.
The left check valve has had the lid rotated 90 degrees to disable the check valve.
The flapper looks like it has been removed as well.
The arrow should only be lined up with the direction of flow.
Fred,
Your spa jet pump "should" be connected to extra drains in the floor of the spa. But it is, what it is...
Your main problem is that you have the system in half pool mode and half spa mode, which is not really a thing. You should close the 3-way valve in front of your main pool pump so that it does NOT suck any water from the spa line.
Try that and tell me what happens.
Thanks,
Jim R.
Your spa jet pump "should" be connected to extra drains in the floor of the spa. But it is, what it is...
Your main problem is that you have the system in half pool mode and half spa mode, which is not really a thing. You should close the 3-way valve in front of your main pool pump so that it does NOT suck any water from the spa line.
Try that and tell me what happens.
Thanks,
Jim R.
Yes this is exactly what's happening "first pump will just suck all the water out of the second pump... !!! Most likely what you are calling pulsing.."
Thanks
This is an amazing catch if it works. Next im going with Jim's suggestion to get rid of the tee which I was gonna try anyway just the get the pool water running through the filter in the meantime while I consider a long term solution
Fred,
You don't have to get rid of the "T".. Just turn the 3-way valve in front of your main pool pump, so that the water from the spa is shut off, when not using the Spa..
Thanks,
Jim R.
Update. And thanks to everyone who has helped by the way.
The check valve on the left was indeed screwed in incorrectly. I don't know how the system worked last year. If I took the cover off to look at it at some point it was probably a while ago. The spring does seem operational, but more on that shortly.
Now that I know what everything does I am able to get the left pump filtering the pool, but having a heck of a time bleeding all the air out of the system. Not sure if there is another way besides just leaving the valve at the top of the filter open??. I know I have a small leak, probably an improper seal, which occurred after I took this component of the heater (where the unions attach). I'll fix that tomorrow but besides that plumbing seems tight.
So right now status is im getting marginal filtration because there's just too much air in the system but overall flow isn't that bad the heater will kick on at least. But as soon as I turn on the right pump it starts pulsing again, even with the check valves facing the right way, so per Jim gonna just change the guts on both of them ASAP.
The check valve on the left was indeed screwed in incorrectly. I don't know how the system worked last year. If I took the cover off to look at it at some point it was probably a while ago. The spring does seem operational, but more on that shortly.
Now that I know what everything does I am able to get the left pump filtering the pool, but having a heck of a time bleeding all the air out of the system. Not sure if there is another way besides just leaving the valve at the top of the filter open??. I know I have a small leak, probably an improper seal, which occurred after I took this component of the heater (where the unions attach). I'll fix that tomorrow but besides that plumbing seems tight.
So right now status is im getting marginal filtration because there's just too much air in the system but overall flow isn't that bad the heater will kick on at least. But as soon as I turn on the right pump it starts pulsing again, even with the check valves facing the right way, so per Jim gonna just change the guts on both of them ASAP.
Fred,
Sounds to me like you did not do what I asked.. Which should fix most of your immediate issues.
There is a three way valve right in front of the left (Main) pool pump.. That valve is set to suck water from the Spa all the time.. Why would you do that??? That valve should be fully in the pool mode or fully in the Spa mode.. You have it half way in between.
Just set the off tab so that it closes off the spa pipe unless you are going to use the spa..
Please do that and tell me what happens. I suspect this will also fix your air leak issue..
Thanks,
Jim R.
Sounds to me like you did not do what I asked.. Which should fix most of your immediate issues.
There is a three way valve right in front of the left (Main) pool pump.. That valve is set to suck water from the Spa all the time.. Why would you do that??? That valve should be fully in the pool mode or fully in the Spa mode.. You have it half way in between.
Just set the off tab so that it closes off the spa pipe unless you are going to use the spa..
Please do that and tell me what happens. I suspect this will also fix your air leak issue..
Thanks,
Jim R.
Yeah so I did do that actually and the issue is as described. I thought that would isolate the left side but I'm telling you turning on the right pump still affected it. Can the jandy valves go bad at all I'm guessing they are very old. Unless I'm crazy or stupid that's how I remember it, the stop was turned to face the spa. I can try again tomorrow and show a picture. Night.Fred,
Sounds to me like you did not do what I asked.. Which should fix most of your immediate issues.
There is a three way valve right in front of the left (Main) pool pump.. That valve is set to suck water from the Spa all the time.. Why would you do that??? That valve should be fully in the pool mode or fully in the Spa mode.. You have it half way in between.
Just set the off tab so that it closes off the spa pipe unless you are going to use the spa..
Please do that and tell me what happens. I suspect this will also fix your air leak issue..
Thanks,
Jim R.
- Jun 24, 2021
- 16,157
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Yes. They can also be rebuilt. That is the beauty of them.
Sta-rite filters are hard to bleed with single speed pump. Easy if you run your VSP on low speed.
What seems to be the difficulty bleeding the filter?
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Yes. They can also be rebuilt. That is the beauty of them.
Sta-rite filters are hard to bleed with single speed pump. Easy if you run your VSP on low speed.
What seems to be the difficulty bleeding the filter?
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so if I have the pumps "isolated" and one affects the other that tells me the valve doesn't have a tight seal. I can't be rebuilding stuff though I'd just replace it I got to get this thing operational and move on. Bleeding problem... well I don't know what the issue is I just turn the knob and let air out. I'm asking is there anything more to it. I didn't know that about the VSP maybe next time one goes I'll actually put a VSP in.
- Jun 24, 2021
- 16,157
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Replace away!
Nope, nothing more to it. Open the valve until you don't hear more air! That's how it works!
Nope, nothing more to it. Open the valve until you don't hear more air! That's how it works!
Fred,
We are just trying to attack one thing at a time.. Just leave the darn Spa pump off.. Unless you are going to use the spa, it is not needed.
What happens when you run just the left pump??? With the 3 way valve shutting off the Spa input to the left pump???
Thanks,
Jim R.
We are just trying to attack one thing at a time.. Just leave the darn Spa pump off.. Unless you are going to use the spa, it is not needed.
What happens when you run just the left pump??? With the 3 way valve shutting off the Spa input to the left pump???
Thanks,
Jim R.
Ok looks like rebuilding the valve is way quicker than redoing the plumbing
Bleeding problem... well I don't know what the issue is I just turn the knob and let air out. I'm asking is there anything more to it. I didn't know that about the VSP maybe next time one goes I'll actually put a VSP in.
Jimbo lol easy sir.
Apologies. I will have you know I suffer from ADHD, thanks for keeping me honest tho.
So yeah the spa pump has been off. I can't filter water at all with it on so it's been off. Just ran outside in the rain and as I suspected I left the system the way you wanted it. Here's the pics. Everything I described above is for this configuration. The jandys need to be rebuilt yes?
