16 July 2024 Finishing Up my OB Pool

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kimkats said:
I am SO sorry to hear about your wife. Has anyone been able to say what and why it happened? As one who learns from others I feel the need to ask this.

Good luck getting things going again. Here is hoping it only goes up now for you and your wife!
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Kim,

Thanks much. Yep the cause was real concern to us. The MRI told the story. She really has a messed up spine with some curvature and about 6 partially inflamed discs. The part that caused this was L4 L5 where the vertebrae slid a little and at the same location the disc hemorrhaged and was pressing directly on a nerve. As bad as all this sounds we were very relieved it wasn't the "c word" or something like that. My mother always said "what doesn't kill you makes you better". And that's the case here. All of the docs were amazed she was walking at all. She'd got great pain tolerance and that is why we didn't know about this before.

She does seem to be improving some with PT. Hopefully that will continue and I only wish I had that hot tub ready for her!

Chris
 
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JoyfulNoise said:
Do you feel you received “extra scrutiny” because you were an O/B or do you feel that they would do the same regardless of building one home or 3 dozen homes?

Given the errors that so many homebuyers “discover” in their “custom” homes built by big track developers, I often wonder how much grift goes on. Seems like the builders can get away with lots of un-dotted i’s and un-crossed t’s and yet the little guy gets all the extra eyeballs 👀 on their project …
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Matt,
Just looking back at this and realized I never replied. Short answer is yes. But I didn't mind. As many here may know I spent a 40 year career building chemical plants, refineries and offshore platforms, pipeline as a project manager and project director from design through construction and startup. So I do know a lot about the work process, acquiring the appropriate contractors and subs as well as managing the interfaces. But I learn a LOT on every new project. Some of the biggest challenges for me are actually on the smaller projects that require I engage more into the details since these can't support a full suite of my own experts in every area so I have to learn enough to be functional and use the inspection services available to the max extent possible. I truly used my building department inspectors as an important part of the quality assurance. I probed their brains every time I could. Same for the contractor's experts. I learned more than I ever imagined and I'm quite certain I got a better house for it. The more time inspectors spent on my house the more I liked it. Even when there were no findings I would quiz them on what they typically find in other areas. Most inspectors are qualified to inspect way more than the inspection they are working on for any particular call out. I learned about everything from truss connector sizing and selection to electrical grounding and almost everything between. Florida building codes are now amongst the most stringent in the country. I have about 14,000 bd ft of lumber in my truss and support structure. I used to look at all the crazy supports that make it hard to get around as temporary construction supports not removed. That was totally wrong. Every single piece is there for a reason. I could go on and on about all I learned but the simple truth is I learned as much on this project as I did on projects that cost hundreds of millions. And I absolutely validated that skilled, experienced craftsmen are worth every penny they earn. Plus inspectors are your friend and absolutely never your enemy. The most picky ones are even better friends.

Chris
 
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13 July 2023 update

Folks,

Robin is far enough along with healing that we've agreed we need to get the pool done. Here's where we are picking up from:

  • My OB pool permit was granted an extension earlier this week but it has a number of conditions that need to be resolved. Most of these are addressed by the design revision from DIY. I should also mention the revision was free! DIY guarantees that any design modifications after I sign off on their design required for by the building department are on them and they stand behind that statement no questions asked! I really like working with them so far.
  • I'm in the process of re-quoting the major subs and identifying a few more. Most are indicating prices are not going up which means I should be able to extract lower prices... we'll see!
  • I need to firm up the load list for the sub panel. There's a condition that requires I show the house electrical distribution and service is adequate. I have the plans showing the load list including a future sub panel for a 60 and an 80 amp 240 vac service. I had intended to use the 60 amp. Here's what it looks like now as follows after reading a lot on here:
    • two 15 amp breakers for two 2.7 hp vs pumps. @JamesW calcs provided back on post 351 were super helpful for this. I'll need about 160 gpm to get decent flow over the infinity edge. So plan is to run both when we need that visual and drop down to 1 for normal circulation. I think I'm headed toward 24 hr operation @Jimrahbe style most of the time Min speed to operate the swg.
    • SWG dedicated 10 amp 110 v
    • one 10 amp 110 v gas heater circuit
    • one 10 amp lighting
  • I'm thinking a lot about controlling this pool. It will have a zero edge around 3 sides and infinity edge on the 4th. The zero edges will have a channel around the outside of the pool that collects overflow that would normally flow into the skimmers. This flow will be very low so it will appear the pool just has water up to the edge. The water will flow through the channel drains into the basin below the infinity edge. I'm thinking I put an automated valve in the channel drain at each end of the pipe and I close these to maximize flow over the infinity edge. The tile around the 3 zero edges of the pool will slope down such that the pool level can rise slightly when in "infinity edge only" mode to avoid water flowing all over the pool deck. Below is a photo to show the effect I'm looking for.
Any comments especially the load list? I've got plenty of local GFI receptacles in the patio area adjacent to the pool and the equipment pad plus a dedicated outlet under the outdoor kitchen sink for the robot that has a smart receptacle to control the robot via app and Alexa.

View fm LR toward lake.jpgView from spa end.jpg

Chris
 
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Folks,
I have another little issue I'm trying to figure out. I have to sign the Pool Safety Affidavit below. Please see the highlighted text on the second page. I have two sliding glass doors and two hurricane rated metal doors that connect to the pool patio area. The sliding glass doors are huge 10' high by 10' and 14'. The hurricane doors are 10' tall also and have a latching system that throws latching rods through to receivers in the frame. Is there some add on device that I can add to comply with this requirement?

I plan to call the building department on this but I'd appreciate much any input you may have before I call them.

Chris


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kimkats said:
I am SO glad she is feeling better! Here is hoping she keeps going up!
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Thanks Kim, she's not where she wants to be yet but she really wants the pool even more now that swimming is way easier on her back and the hot tub will be very therapeutic.

Chris
 
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setsailsoon said:
I have two sliding glass doors and two hurricane rated metal doors that connect to the pool patio area.
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The metal/ fire doors can be modified with spring hinges, but I'd be surprised if they didn't come with them. We needed a metal door to the garage and it came spring loaded.

Google 'automatic sliding door closer' for those.

The 54 inch latch/lock is easy to add, but is going to leave holes in your pretty doors. If the offset from the door to the trim doesn't line up, a hotel door style chain lock would likely satisfy the code, albeit hideously. :ROFLMAO:
 
Newdude said:
The metal/ fire doors can be modified with spring hinges, but I'd be surprised if they didn't come with them. We needed a metal door to the garage and it came spring loaded.

Google 'automatic sliding door closer' for those.

The 54 inch latch/lock is easy to add, but is going to leave holes in your pretty doors. If the offset from the door to the trim doesn't line up, a hotel door style chain lock would likely satisfy the code, albeit hideously. :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
Thanks, I was afraid of that. The doors both have springs but no where near enough to close the latch. Hoping I can get away with simple beeping from the alarm on all the doors and windows from the security system. That's all we had at the last house. with similar issues. It was built in 2013.

Chris
 
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setsailsoon said:
  • I need to firm up the load list for the sub panel. There's a condition that requires I show the house electrical distribution and service is adequate. I have the plans showing the load list including a future sub panel for a 60 and an 80 amp 240 vac service. I had intended to use the 60 amp. Here's what it looks like now as follows after reading a lot on here:
    • two 15 amp breakers for two 2.7 hp vs pumps. @JamesW calcs provided back on post 351 were super helpful for this. I'll need about 160 gpm to get decent flow over the infinity edge. So plan is to run both when we need that visual and drop down to 1 for normal circulation. I think I'm headed toward 24 hr operation @Jimrahbe style most of the time Min speed to operate the swg.
    • SWG dedicated 10 amp 110 v
    • one 10 amp 110 v gas heater circuit
    • one 10 amp lighting
Click to expand...

Chris, a proper load analysis is done by using the actual VA on the data plates for all directly wired devices. You don't simply add up the circuit breaker amperage. In almost every panel the total of all CB amps installed will be greater than the panel feed capacity.

You are limited to an actual load of 80% of the feeder circuit. A 60A 240V circuit can provide 14,400 VA and you can load the panel to use 11,520 VA. This can be spread out across as many CB's as necessary.

On every device the VA are on a data plate or in the specifications. Prepare a spreadsheet showing the devices being connected to each circuit and actual VA. Again, the total of all CBs can be greater than the 60AMPS as long as actual VA are less than 80% of the feeder circuit.

Will you have any convenience outlet powered through the panel? NEC requires a convenience outlet located near the pool panel.

Also I would use 20A CBs with 12 gauge wires for the two pool pumps. Wire size is determined by the CB size and not the device.
 
Is that tile coping sloping into the pool? It looks amazing, but consider:

1. Will that be a slipping hazard? It looks to have a texture to it, but will it? And if so, will it be enough? Wet tile is slippery. Will a texture be enough to counter that? The coping is where people stand. Some while getting ready to enter the pool. Others to just look into it. Will their feet slip out from under them, due to the wet tile and a slight slope? That could be quite a hazard.

2. Coping and decking is supposed to slope away from the pool, for various good reasons, not into it.

3. Maybe this one won't apply in Florida, but if I had coping like that with my fill water, it would turn into quite a mess. Even now, even with perfect TFP water, I have a ring of what must be calcium at my water line, on my edge tile. Because the CH is near perfect, I suspect this ring is more from evaporation. Due to the lapping of the water, it's the area of my edge tile that is both constantly wet, and constantly exposed to warm air. That combo makes for constant evaporation right at the edge of the water, which forms that nasty, white ring. Now if water is going to be lapping up onto your tile coping, that could evaporate like crazy, leave the same white residue behind, but it won't be contained to a 1/2" ring, like mine, it'll be a white smear all over that tile coping.

Pardon if I've misinterpreted what that coping actually is...
 
ajw22 said:
Chris, a proper load analysis is done by using the actual VA on the data plates for all directly wired devices. You don't simply add up the circuit breaker amperage. In almost every panel the total of all CB amps installed will be greater than the panel feed capacity.

You are limited to an actual load of 80% of the feeder circuit. A 60A 240V circuit can provide 14,400 VA and you can load the panel to use 11,520 VA. This can be spread out across as many CB's as necessary.

On every device the VA are on a data plate or in the specifications. Prepare a spreadsheet showing the devices being connected to each circuit and actual VA. Again, the total of all CBs can be greater than the 60AMPS as long as actual VA are less than 80% of the feeder circuit.

Will you have any convenience outlet powered through the panel? NEC requires a convenience outlet located near the pool panel.

Also I would use 20A CBs with 12 gauge wires for the two pool pumps. Wire size is determined by the CB size and not the device.
Click to expand...
Very helpful Alan thank you. Yes I noticed they did that for the house load list. I have a copy of that so I can create a similar spreadsheet showing VA loads the way you describe . The house has 400 amp feeder from the main Transformer near the street and two 200 amp panels inside the garage. I have a convenience Outlet located near the pool panel on the wall of the house but I could easily add one to the side of the box and power it through the sub panel if needed. Do you think the existing wall panel will be adequate or do I need to plan on adding one through the subpanel?

Thanks much for your help.
 
Dirk said:
Is that tile coping sloping into the pool? It looks amazing, but consider:

1. Will that be a slipping hazard? It looks to have a texture to it, but will it? And if so, will it be enough? Wet tile is slippery. Will a texture be enough to counter that? The coping is where people stand. Some while getting ready to enter the pool. Others to just look into it. Will their feet slip out from under them, due to the wet tile and a slight slope? That could be quite a hazard.

2. Coping and decking is supposed to slope away from the pool, for various good reasons, not into it.

3. Maybe this one won't apply in Florida, but if I had coping like that with my fill water, it would turn into quite a mess. Even now, even with perfect TFP water, I have a ring of what must be calcium at my water line, on my edge tile. Because the CH is near perfect, I suspect this ring is more from evaporation. Due to the lapping of the water, it's the area of my edge tile that is both constantly wet, and constantly exposed to warm air. That combo makes for constant evaporation right at the edge of the water, which forms that nasty, white ring. Now if water is going to be lapping up onto your tile coping, that could evaporate like crazy, leave the same white residue behind, but it won't be contained to a 1/2" ring, like mine, it'll be a white smear all over that tile coping.

Pardon if I've misinterpreted what that coping actually is...
Click to expand...
Good points you make Dirk. The coping tile around the edge of the pool is supposed to be slip resistant. I may need to be very selective to make sure it really is. Yes this design is intended to have the pool full to the narrow drain insert around the three sides of the pool. A small amount of flow when the pool is circulating will be continuous so the coping tile should be wet all the time because I plan to run the pump 24/7 on low speed.

This kind of pool is designed so that the remainder of the deck is slightly higher than the pool itself. But any normal rain water from the deck will go into the channel drain around the edge of the pool and dump into the basin for the infinity edge. it's hard to see in the drawing but it is about 2 in wide outside the coping before the lighter colored paver tiles. Shows up as kind of a thick black line on the 3D rendering. I really like the look. Will be interesting to see if I like it after the pool is operating for a year or two.

Thanks much for your comments. At the very least I will need to be very careful with that coping tile selection. Definitely nothing slippery or shiny!

Chris
 
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