Filter Pressure Rise After Upgrade to Hayward Skimmer

[dBsooner]

Question for you all that have done the upgrade to a Hayward skimmer, but kept the standard 12" sand filter and pump. I did this conversion a week or so ago now and immediately upon flipping on the pump post-conversion my pressure was about 20% higher. For those that have switched to a skimmer that has a 2" (actually 1.5" I.D.) hose connection to the pump, did you all notice an increase in pressure?

I have the SF80110-2, which has a maximum working pressure of 30 PSI. Before the conversion, after a backwash and rinse, I would sit around 5.5-6 PSI. Now, after a backwash and rinse I am at 7 PSI. Which is where I was immediately after the conversion.

I also went ahead and did the almost "unthinkable" today and changed my filter sand. I know, I know. Sand can technically last a lifetime. However, I have multiple reasons to go ahead and just change it.

1. I had a 50lb bag of #20 Silica just sitting around from the previous owner (they thought you were supposed to change it like ... daily? [LOL. JK.. but no, they had several bags, no idea why.]).
2. I have been battling a super stubborn algae to where I have been in SLAM for 11 days now. I FINALLY passed OCLT last night, but there are still some brown spots on the bottom [likely dead algae], so I technically am not out of SLAM yet.
3. Every single time I shut off the pump for more than 2 seconds (literally), and turn it back on, there is a good amount of a brown "plume" from the return for about 2-3 seconds. I know, this could be a number of things. So I wanted to eliminate a few:
   1. Broken / cracked / damaged spider gasket. (nope, it's good!)
   2. Broken / damaged 6-way in general (nope, it's good!)
   3. Broken / damaged lateral (nope, they're good too!) --- This was the main reason to just go ahead and replace. wanted to check. I know, I wasn't catching any "sand" in a panty hose when the brown plume went, but I wanted to check it anyway.
   4. Possible channelling. Since I would need to deep clean the sand anyway to help break it up, might as well just swap it.
4. The sand had some of that Clorox Sand Plus (I assume zeolite) mixed into the #20 silica. So it was some sort of "mixture" of the two. I didn't realize this stuff wasn't actual sand until I was pouring it in, I was low on sand (again, part of the reason I thought there was a problem. But thinking back, I think it was low when we got it last year from the previous owner). So, battling algae, I wanted to top it off. I also didn't know you were supposed to "pre-wash" it. Alas, mistake made and lesson learned. Returned the very, very slightly used back to Lowe's for refund. They didn't mind at all, said it's a very common issue / reason for return. While probably not "a huge problem" that it's a mixture, my OCD doesn't like it. I've also read the zeolite may actually be putting dust and other particles back into the pool. I posted some pics in another thread of what I am battling every day on the bottom of the pool. Water is CRYSTAL clear. I passed OCLT last night, but have this stuff showing up on the bottom constantly.

Okay, I am done trying to justify why I went ahead and changed the sand. LOL! So the ultimate question is: for those that have switched to a skimmer that has a 2" (actually 1.5" I.D.) hose connection to the pump, did you all notice an increase in pressure? I am good with it being a 7 PSI "clean" now, because 20% increase (time to backwash) puts me at 8.5 PSI, which is the top of the "green" scale, start of the "yellow" scale for this filter. The only thing I worry about is decrease pump life. I will eventually be replacing the filter and pump with something fancier, but for now, this works.

TIA,
Daniel

EDIT: Added a pic of what I’m dealing with on the bottom. This was a few days ago. Today is less. Tomorrow maybe more. It’s a constant battle.

 

[Newdude]

I am good with it being a 7 PSI "clean" now, because 20% increase (time to backwash) puts me at 8.5 PSI, which is the top of the "green" scale, start of the "yellow" scale for this filter.

Goodness. Pay the color coded scale the same mind you do the rest of the industry reccomendations. Some of them are green at 10psi and clean at 20psi. Watch the #, not the color.

It's always best to start fresh with somebody else's filter. No telling what they put through it, or the condition of the guts/media.

Zero likes low RPMs/flow and commonly gets blown in the pool, and is a big part of our reccomendations against it.

Keep us posted.

 

[PoolStored]

I have and use Zeo. There are a few of us that use it and like it. And yes, @Newdude is right...Zeo likes low and slow and filters great...if you get the right zeo and handle it correctly, but it is certainly NOT troublefree and is best to avoid.

Zeo often needs a good ten minutes to half an hour of backwashing when it is new to avoid this exact problem. There are situations where even that doesn't take care of it. There are about 4 source plants of Zeo. A couple distribute harder zeo and a couple use the softer zeo. You never know what you get. Occasionally you get a bad batch of zeo, from the softer source, and it is constantly getting crushed and thus continues to put dust into the pool until it is replaced.

I'm not saying that the stuff on the bottom is Zeo. If you want to eliminate that as an issue, remove and replace your sand with just sand.

 

[dBsooner]

Watch the #, not the color.

Yeah... But my OCD likes the colors to match the numbers. LOL!

It's always best to start fresh with somebody else's filter. No telling what they put through it, or the condition of the guts/media.

Yep, I should have done this last year.. but instead I used the 2nd filter they gave us. Yes, they had TWO filters and TWO pumps. One pump is dead. Their excuse is they kept overheating pumps from not having a large enough extension cord on the line. I just shook my head and said, "yeah.. that sucks," thinking in my mind that it has NOTHING to do with the absolute green nasty swamp they have brewing.. My guess is they never backwashed or didn't backwash enough, causing pressure to rise, causing pump to overheat. Shrug. I don't know. I just know they had a brand new filter with brand new sand in it.. I left it alone and just hooked it up. Should have replaced then and topped it off.

Zero likes low RPMs/flow and commonly gets blown in the pool, and is a big part of our reccomendations against it.

Yeah, I've read that too and I don't have a vari speed pump. So.. I opted the route of just replacing the media completely.

 

[Newdude]

to do with the absolute green nasty swamp they have brewing.. My guess is they never backwashed or didn't backwash enough, causing pressure to rise, causing pump to overheat.

And what do those people do when they finally get around to addressing the swamp ?

That's RIGHT !!! They head to the pool store for an easy fix of magic potions.

You did good starting over. Hopefully that's the last piece of the ongoing SLAM puzzle.

 

[dBsooner]

I have and use Zeo. There are a few of us that use it and like it. And yes, @Newdude is right...Zeo likes low and slow and filters great...if you get the right zeo and handle it correctly, but it is certainly NOT troublefree and is best to avoid.

Yeah, I was skeptical immediately when I saw the difference in media. It literally looked like kitty litter, but a little finer. Not much. It was larger than the #20 silica, which I thought was odd. Anyway, I just used a few cups to "top it off" (maybe 10?). But I had no idea about the rinsing it very well first. I did backwash immediately and rinse. But not for the 10+ minutes extended you all talk about in other threads. (Oh and your post here. )

Zeo often needs a good ten minutes to half an hour of backwashing when it is new to avoid this exact problem. There are situations where even that doesn't take care of it. There are about 4 source plants of Zeo. A couple distribute harder zeo and a couple use the softer zeo. You never know what you get. Occasionally you get a bad batch of zeo, from the softer source, and it is constantly getting crushed and thus continues to put dust into the pool until it is replaced.

Goodness! 10-30 minutes would decimate my little pool. LOL! I'd have to keep two hoses in there filling to try to keep up with the waste. Even then, likely wouldn't keep up with the average flow rate of around 10 gpm on a 50 ft hose at typical 50-60 PSI household water pressure.

I'm not saying that the stuff on the bottom is Zeo. If you want to eliminate that as an issue, remove and replace your sand with just sand.

I understand completely. That's why I decided to just 100% replace with #20 silica today. I'll vacuum to waste tonight so that stuff doesn't hit the filter media and see what happens tomorrow morning. I'll also stay in SLAM and conduct another OCLT to see what may be going on within the water as well.

 

[dBsooner]

That's RIGHT !!! They head to the pool store for an easy fix of magic potions.

They did. I think I posted that in another thread. Or maybe to you in DMs. LOL! They are the tattoo artists that created the works of art on the bottom of the liner.

You did good starting over. Hopefully that's the last piece of the ongoing SLAM puzzle.

I hope so. I am tired of counting drops, adding .5-1 gallon of LC a day, etc. So hard to maintain SLAM level of 20 FC (50 ppm CYA) in the Oklahoma sun. It just gets EATEN ALIVE by the UV in the day.

 

[wireform]

Goodness! 10-30 minutes would decimate my little pool. LOL! I'd have to keep two hoses in there filling to try to keep up with the waste. Even then, likely wouldn't keep up with the average flow rate of around 10 gpm on a 50 ft hose at typical 50-60 PSI household water pressure.

If you can rig up something that will return the water to the pool and not to the waste you'd be able to backwash for any amount of time.

 

[dBsooner]

If you can rig up something that will return the water to the pool and not to the waste you'd be able to backwash for any amount of time.

Ohhhh.. That would be fun! But I'd have to hide it from the wife. She doesn't really go for most of my redneck engineering... She likes the pretty, store bought solutions... One of the people that think the prettier it is, the more functional it is. Not a bad thing, just the way she (and a lot of folks) is / are, and I love her for it.

 

[dBsooner]

So by all accounts my SLAM is definitely complete. I have run and passed OCLTs every night for the past week. 2 of those nights, I was still in SLAM. My water has been crystal TFP clear for at least 7 days. I have been back down to target FC of 8 since Thursday. CYA is 50. I changed my sand as above, which has eliminated the brown plume that comes out for a couple seconds when the pump starts. I also swapped my steps around. Putting the ones that were outside the pool inside and vice versa. Just in case we had some lingering algae in them.

I have 2.5 questions:
1) I now see a small cloudy plume when the pump starts. I run the pump twice a day. 6a-12p and 6p-12a. It’s just a slightly cloudy appearance. Not bubbles, not brown or yellow, kinda white. Any idea?

1b) is that a good setup for running the pump? I usually dose in the evenings around 8:30/9. Then sometimes add a smidge in the am to boost it up to get through the heat of the day.

2) I still get these little brown spots gathering on the bottom. Not nearly as many as before. Not even close. But enough to notice and I have to vacuum them. I could brush them, but vacuum them ensures they go straight to filter. Any idea what they are?

Pics to show clearness. Hard to tell though because pump was running, it was windy and partially cloudy. Camera on phone doesn’t like any of those.



Pics of the little brown spots:

 

[Newdude]

Not bubbles, not brown or yellow, kinda white. Any idea?

None. Try and get a pic.

is that a good setup for running the pump?

1) You need 15 mins to mix the pool. Twice a day is even better.

2) You need as much skimming as you need, but given 6+ hours to get waterlogged and sink, most things will do so.

3) You need as much filtering as that point in the season demands. As the spring crud tapers off, the filtering need will likely decrease considerably, unless you are racking up the bather-hours.

Pump runtimes are a moving target based upon need, not an arbitrary 6 hour on/off schedule. I am forever grateful for my VS pump because I just run it around the clock cheaply to never have to care if I'm filtering/skimming enough.

In your case, if the pool is TFP clear, you are filtering enough and can likely dial down the run time. If the pool tests perfect, but loses some sparkle, it likely needs more runtime.

 

[PoolStored]

1) I now see a small cloudy plume when the pump starts. I run the pump twice a day. 6a-12p and 6p-12a. It’s just a slightly cloudy appearance. Not bubbles, not brown or yellow, kinda white. Any idea?

Did you clean the sand when you replaced it? (2-3 solid backwash and rinse?)

1b) is that a good setup for running the pump? I usually dose in the evenings around 8:30/9. Then sometimes add a smidge in the am to boost it up to get through the heat of the day.

Run you pump to: Filter, mix chemicals, skim, SWCG, or heat. Are you happy with your water clarity? Are you happing with your skimming? Adjust your pump based on your needs.

2) I still get these little brown spots gathering on the bottom. Not nearly as many as before. Not even close. But enough to notice and I have to vacuum them. I could brush them, but vacuum them ensures they go straight to filter. Any idea what they are?

Dirt.

Congrats on the SLAM...nice pool!

 

[dBsooner]

None. Try and get a pic.

Tried. It’s really faint. Like almost like a privacy screen. Now I can’t get it to do it. So it must have something to do with the pump being off for 6 hours.

You need as much skimming as you need, but given 6+ hours to get waterlogged and sink, most things will do so.

Yeah. That is a long while to go without skimming. I think I’ll adjust to more like a 2 on, 2 off schedule. I would just run it 24/7 because it only uses 4.92kWh in a 24 hour period when I was running it 24/7 for the SLAM, but I am worried this poor little intex pump can’t handle that kind of load, especially in the 100 degree heat we get in Okie dokie land. Thoughts?

Did you clean the sand when you replaced it? (2-3 solid backwash and rinse?)

I did. I ran a 3 minute backwash followed by a 2 minute rinse. Sight glass was clear, aside from sand within the first minute of backwash. The first time I flipped on filter mode, no plume at all. Same with the next couple times I did that same day when switching around the electric.

Dirt.

Even though they occur in the exact same spots every time? In the shadier part of the late afternoon sun and directly across from the skimmer and return jet. I guess that’s where the least amount of circulation would be allowing for settling. It’s also about where the ladder would stop the circulation.
“Dirt” is at the bottom of this photo, closer to the wall and towards the ladder.


Wayyy too windy today to get a great pic.

Congrats on the SLAM...nice pool!

Thank you! I was worried I stopped too soon with this debris still in the bottom every couple hours. Especially over night. But I’m losing zero FC, except last night I lost .5, but it also rained quite a bit yesterday and some last night.

 

[Newdude]

That is a long while to go without skimming. I think I’ll adjust to more like a 2 on, 2 off schedule.

It's literally a half dozen or six. You need it to be breezy when the pump is on, and still when it's off. No matter which way you run............ Murphys will get you.

You do have the above ground thing working in your favor though. Your debris is mostly airborne. In grounds can blow any direction across the yard and suck it up like a vacuum.

I am worried this poor little intex pump can’t handle that kind of load, especially in the 100 degree heat we get in Okie dokie land. Thoughts?

Im kinda torn here because the pump isn't designed to last any longer than the pool, because the new Intex will come with a new pump. (With a price point so attractive, nobody can argue the quality)

But at the same time, pumps by nature are designed to run.

Thank you! I was worried I stopped too soon with this debris still in the bottom every couple hours.

You passed *7* OCLTs.

It's dirt, pollen, or tree droppings.

 

[PoolStored]

Even though they occur in the exact same spots every time? In the shadier part of the late afternoon sun and directly across from the skimmer and return jet. I guess that’s where the least amount of circulation would be allowing for settling. It’s also about where the ladder would stop the circulation.

Yep, and prolly a low spot thrown in...

 

[dBsooner]

Im kinda torn here because the pump isn't designed to last any longer than the pool, because the new Intex will come with a new pump. (With a price point so attractive, nobody can argue the quality)

But at the same time, pumps by nature are designed to run.

That’s not an answer I wanted. Lol! I like it running at night when I’m falling asleep (it’s about 10-15ft from our bedroom windows). My tinnitus hates quiet. But I also don’t want to waste hours on the pump. The pump manual says it’s 5 hours for 1 cycle for this pool size. So that’s where I came up with the 6 hour setting. I just don’t think it will last if I leave it running 24/7 though I kinda want to. That skimmer is really doing a bang up job. I just don’t know what to do. :-/ Y’all could just say “run it nonstop. Go for it. You’ll be alright.”

I’ve also been looking at some pumps on Amazon for ~$150-200. But bet they are going to be similar “quality”, though they are 5 times the HP (1-1.5HP as opposed to 1/4). But then all the connections on the hoses likely won’t match being Intex filter still.

It's dirt, pollen, or tree droppings.

No trees for at least 100 yards in any direction. Dirt is likely. With all this nasty air quality we’ve had. Pollen has come down.

You passed *7* OCLTs.

Well, you know. Wanted to be an overachiever. Didn’t want to stop too soon. And really I’m not officially testing OCLT on purpose the last couple nights, more just playing with the new test kit.

Yep, and prolly a low spot thrown in...

Actually, if it were out of level, that would be where it would be. The yard slopes that direction. By probably 2 inches on the high side to the low side. I don’t quite recall how much I removed on the high side when I leveled.

 

[Newdude]

Y’all could just say “run it nonstop. Go for it. You’ll be alright.”

If it was traditional equipment, it would arguably last longer if it never shut off.

I’ve also been looking at some pumps on Amazon for ~$150-200

For that kind of money buy a whole setup of used traditional equipment on FB marketplace or Offerup. It may take some stalking but you'll find a deal eventually, especially in the fall.

Wanted to be an overachiever. Didn’t want to stop too soon. And really I’m not officially testing OCLT on purpose the last couple nights, more just playing with the new test kit.

However you got there, you got there. You did good. Peace of mind is everything.

 

[dBsooner]

For that kind of money buy a whole setup of used traditional equipment on FB marketplace or Offerup. It may take some stalking but you'll find a deal eventually, especially in the fall.

Oh that’s a good idea. Keep an eye out for a pump and filter. Maybe even an SWG. Though can’t that be almost a Crud shoot for if it’s actually all “working” since you’ll likely be buying it already disassembled and not in use.

 

[Newdude]

Though can’t that be almost a Crud shoot for if it’s actually all “working” since you’ll likely be buying it already disassembled and not in use.

Of course. But the story is everything. If the pool failed, that had nothing to do with the equipment. Or the kids moved out and they're taking down the 4 year old pool but the equipment is in great shape.

I sold my 200lb sand filter and pump for $150(?). The filter alone was worth that so the pump could have blown and it was still a good deal.

 

[dBsooner]

Yep, and prolly a low spot thrown in...

Wow. I wanted to reply to say this is exactly the outcome. The spot the most gathers is about an inch lower than the rest of the pool. It’s already the “low side”, but that small area settled about an inch lower in about a 3 ft line. Should have compacted better I guess. Average depth of my water is 46”. About 45.5” on the high side with maybe a spot or two hitting 45” and 46” on the low side with that small strip hitting 47”. Pool math calculator puts me at 7100-7300 gallons.