Actuator Installation Options for Water Feature

[midlifecrisis]

I am finally getting around to installing the actuator valve I bought a couple of months ago. It is a 180-degree model (CVA-24 Compool which I think is Pentair? Doesn’t really matter, I guess).

I want to “automate” my fountain so when we want it on, I can make that happen. Currently, I have the return flowing into a 2” tee fitting where one side (2”) goes to the return jets with a two-way valve and the other side (1 ½”) is towards the fountain with a ball valve. Ideally, I’d like to have the option to have an option to select either return, fountain, or both, but I can’t seem to find an actuator that provides 3 stop positions, and I’m not sure if I need one. (Picture attached if it helps.)

Currently, (sometimes) I leave the ball valve open along with the return jet valve and when I want the fountain, I simply turn the two-way valve for the returns off (or close it partially) which allows me to leave the pump at 1200RPM with great flow at the fountain. So, here are my options, I THINK.

1) Leave the plumbing as is and install the actuator on the current two-way valve to the return jets leaving the ball valve open and simply closing the actuator relay when I want the fountain. The drawback I see here is that when my pump spins up for 75 minutes every morning to skim the top a little more than the 1200RPM the fountain will run too. This isn’t a problem other than it will cause additional aeration when I’m already fighting PH with the new plaster I get that will hopefully slow down overtime.​

2) Replace the ball-valve on the fountain return with a two-way and place the actuator on it. If I am seeing this correctly, that will require me to increase the pump speed because with water still flowing to returns there wouldn’t be enough pressure.​

3) Buy another actuator and have them both change when I want the fountain on enabling me to leave my pump at the same RPM. I am not sure this is achievable with my automation, and I also see issues if one of those actuators or actions fail while in the closed position with pressure buildup.​

​

I’m not necessarily opposed to changing the RPMs if there is a better solution. Just looking to find all my options to make the best decision. I also don’t HAVE to skim every morning, but it seems to help keep the pool nice and pretty.

Thoughts for the group?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Shawn,

With a manual 3-way valve you can have Off, On, or Both On.

With an automated valve you can't do that. You can have any two, but not all three.

The valve is either all the way one way or all the way the other way. You can set the stops to where ever you want, but it will only move from one stop to the other stop.

And that way they call it a 3-way valve...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Ahultin]

I can’t seem to find an actuator that provides 3 stop positions

There is not one currently- this is one of the "future features" that have been promised with the intellivalves for years but have not come to fruition.

I might be inclined to go with option 2 but I think the limiting factor would be your easy touch lite - I don't know if you can program it to change the actuator and ramp up the pump speed as such I would suggest option 4
Change the tee to a 3 way jandy and put the actuator on that. You can set it so that it is all return or part return part fountain.

 

[midlifecrisis]

Shawn,

With a manual 3-way valve you can have Off, On, or Both On.

With an automated valve you can't do that. You can have any two, but not all three.

The valve is either all the way one way or all the way the other way. You can set the stops to where ever you want, but it will only move from one stop to the other stop.

And that way they call it a 3-way valve...

Thanks,

Jim R.

Noted, thanks. That makes sense though. I guess the better term is a 180 degree valve. I'm strongly leaning towards option 1 here, but I think I will see if anyone has any input that might sway me. At least that is the easiest path!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Shawn,

You can control pump speeds and valve movement with a Feature Circuit. I think you have two of then with the ET 'lite'.

You'd name the Feature Circuit say .. Waterfall or whatever. Then assign a pump speed to the waterfall circuit and then assign waterfall to either valve A or B.

When you turn on the waterfall circuit, the valve moves and the pump changes speed.. Note that the speed can only increase, you can't make the speed decrease unless you shut the circuit off.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[midlifecrisis]

Change the tee to a 3 way jandy and put the actuator on that. You can set it so that it is all return or part return part fountain.

I had considered this, but using the entire 180 degrees instead. I think what you suggest would require setting the stop at a 90, wouldn't it? I'm probably missing something.

Now, I am not sure why I didn't include that in my options above.

Okay - I already have some things to think about. I am going to let the responses flow in and consider them before responding to each one.

 

[Ahultin]

I think what you suggest would require setting the stop at a 90, wouldn't it? I'm probably missing something

You would set the default to fountain fully closed and the other to whatever balance you wanted. That could be return 1/2 closed 1/4 closed, whatever balance you like.

 

[midlifecrisis]

You would set the default to fountain fully closed and the other to whatever balance you wanted. That could be return 1/2 closed 1/4 closed, whatever balance you like.

I see what you’re saying. Sorry, I’m a bit slow today!

 

[midlifecrisis]

@Ahultin Not that I'm interested, but here you go. 14 positions.

 

[Ahultin]

@Ahultin Not that I'm interested, but here you go. 14 positions.

Yup those are the intellivalves - they have been available for ~5yrs but still only offer 2 stopping positions currently as the rs485 firmware has not been enabled

 

[DavidArmenB]

Noted, thanks. That makes sense though. I guess the better term is a 180 degree valve. I'm strongly leaning towards option 1 here, but I think I will see if anyone has any input that might sway me. At least that is the easiest path!

Correct! They come from the factory with a 180 degree sweep as the standard for a three way valve with the inlet port being the middle port, and the left and right side ports being the outlet ports, or the other way around:

In this example, the inlet is at the center, directly under the actuator body, and the outlet ports are at either side. Photos and video show the visuals of the default 180 degree sweep.

However, they will rotate as much as you want as long as you set the end stops. So if you are using it for a 2-way valve (which has a 90 degree sweep), or if you have one of those 3-way Y valves (which has the ports at roughly 0 degrees, 160 degrees, and 200 degrees), you need to remove the cover and reset the end stops on the shaft. You can make it so it rotates 270 degrees if you so chose. Or even technically 360 degrees. I suggest you replace the handle after removing the cover so you can see visually where the valve stops when you’re rotating the end stops to new positions.

So basically, you can set either end stop anywhere within the full 360 degree range. One position can be at 55 degrees from an arbitrary 0 degrees starting point and the second position can be at 330 degrees if you so chose.

 

[midlifecrisis]

Correct! They come from the factory with a 180 degree sweep as the standard for a three way valve with the inlet port being the middle port, and the left and right side ports being the outlet ports, or the other way around:

In this example, the inlet is at the center, directly under the actuator body, and the outlet ports are at either side. Photos and video show the visuals of the default 180 degree sweep.

However, they will rotate as much as you want as long as you set the end stops. So if you are using it for a 2-way valve (which has a 90 degree sweep), or if you have one of those 3-way Y valves (which has the ports at roughly 0 degrees, 160 degrees, and 200 degrees), you need to remove the cover and reset the end stops on the shaft. You can make it so it rotates 270 degrees if you so chose. Or even technically 360 degrees. I suggest you replace the handle after removing the cover so you can see visually where the valve stops when you’re rotating the end stops to new positions.

So basically, you can set either end stop anywhere within the full 360 degree range. One position can be at 55 degrees from an arbitrary 0 degrees starting point and the second position can be at 330 degrees if you so chose.

I forgot about this post. I purchased a Pentair 2-port diverter, attached my actuator to it on the waterfall return. I have the pump set to spin up to 1800RPM when the waterfall pump feature is selected which solves my initial issue. As much as I use the waterfall it is cheaper to spin the pump up than purchase another actuator. Everything works well. If I run across another valve on the cheap I might add it to the return valve but good for now.

My next project aside from enjoying is pool automation inspired by @MyAZPool. That will keep me busy for a while I imagine. I think I can do both by working on the project poolside

 

[DavidArmenB]

I forgot about this post. I purchased a Pentair 2-port diverter, attached my actuator to it on the waterfall return. I have the pump set to spin up to 1800RPM when the waterfall pump feature is selected which solves my initial issue. As much as I use the waterfall it is cheaper to spin the pump up than purchase another actuator. Everything works well. If I run across another valve on the cheap I might add it to the return valve but good for now.

My next project aside from enjoying is pool automation inspired by @MyAZPool. That will keep me busy for a while I imagine. I think I can do both by working on the project poolside

Changing pump speed when a valve changes position is a great way to do it. I saw a pool the other day with four pumps in the system, one for pool, one for spa, one for waterfall, one for another waterfall. The same effect could have been achieved with a maximum of two pumps. It was just way overkill.

You mind linking to that pool automation post you mentioned?
I am also Finishing a Write up for my DIY pool automation on a budget using Wi-Fi relays and Wi-Fi timers etc.

 

[midlifecrisis]

This is my starting point.

Alternative Pool Automation and Sensor/Chemical Control and Integration