Pool Build in Maryland - Looking for some notes/things to ask for when planning build

[MDRetirement]

Hi Everyone,

I've been a reader here for awhile and I'm looking for some advice. We got the following quote which we feel is pretty good for a 16x40 pool.

Includes:

- Permitting
- ICC Approved Base
- Water
- Latham Corinthian 16 (16x40 - G2 Interior Finish)
- Jandy JEP 1.65HP JEP FloPro VSP Pump
- Sand filter
- 2x LED HydroCool 24 Watt 12v
- Sch 40 piping
- Excavation
- Zodiac/Jandy Nature2 Fusion Sanitizer (This looks to be an auto-chlorine feeder with a mineral cartridge, not the salt version)
- White/gray goods
- 3ft perimeter broom finish concrete
- Start up chemicals
- 1st opening and closing
- Operational Turnover
- Handrail

Equipment brands/models based on what I know appear to be good quality and middle of the road/good value spectrum. Am I correct in that?

Construction also Includes:

- Freight
- Crane to offload/set
- Extra machine grading
- Dirt will be spread on site (We have a large lot - over 5 acres)
- No rock removal or retaining wall (Shouldn't be necessary but we'll find out when they do the site visit).

The optionals were:

• Safety Winter Cover - 5000 mesh ($3695)
• Heat Pump ($6000) - We want this, our warm seasons aren't terribly long in MD lately and we don't like swimming in freezing water
• Jandy TruClear Salt System ($2995)
• Coping upgrade to Bullnose Paver ($6300)

Total: $85k (With Options above)

All prices are installed.

We will be getting a pool robot but have not quoted it through the pool builder.

I am thinking to just get a salt generator and winter cover and install them myself. I can do the electric and the plumbing for the SWG and have SDS bits and a hammer drill to install the cover.

Looking for some general advice, things you might change/add or that do not seem accounted for (I could have missed these). Things that would be nice to have/make life easier that are better to do on install than later? Should I request any different equipment?

Any input on how to set the pool in regards to sun exposure? We are a moderate/cold climate and were thinking if we set the pool so it's sun exposed it might help.

 

[PoolGate]

Hmm.... Your post is confusing because some of the stuff is in your quote but then is included again as optional.

You should get a winter mesh safety cover. You only need 1. These are pricey!
You should get a saltwater chlorine generator. I suggest the Nature2 FusionSoft or the Jandy PLC1400 (They are both the same electronics - probably the same price). Do NOT use the mineral portion of the Nature2 (just throw the cartridge in the trash).
You should get a robot but on your own and not through your builder. We can advise when the time comes.
Heat pump is nice but a heat pump will not extend your season.
I suggest NOT getting the TruClear. Is is the lowest end Jandy SWG and is known NOT to last.
I suggest NOT getting a sand filter but instead get a cartridge filter. IMO they should phase out sand/DE filters (my personal opinion!).
Aqualink control system would be nice.
Lights should be compatible with control system if you get it.

That price is really high. Have you talked with every builder you can find?

I think it is way too late to be swimming this season. You are building for next year.

 

[MDRetirement]

Sorry, I was trying to organize everything and it probably came out a bit discombobulated... The total $85k was all options installed that I listed in the entire post. The Optionals section are things I could remove. So if I removed everything i'd have a regular Liquid/Tablet chlorine pool with no mesh cover, concrete coping and no heat pump. Trying to fix it now.

You should get a winter mesh safety cover. You only need 1. These are pricey!

We are going to get one for sure, was going to install myself to save money.

You should get a saltwater chlorine generator. I suggest the Nature2 FusionSoft or the Jandy PLC1400 (They are both the same electronics - probably the same price). Do NOT use the mineral portion of the Nature2 (just throw the cartridge in the trash).

We intend to get a SCG, I think he quoted the chlorine tablet Nature2, then SCG as an option. I didn't intend to use the mineral part. I would install this myself.

Heat pump is nice but a heat pump will not extend your season.

Interesting, that's what it's marketed as . We just do not want to swim in a freezing pool, if it's time to not swim because the heat pump can't heat water to where we want it, we'll stop swimming/close the pool.

I suggest NOT getting the TruClear. Is is the lowest end Jandy SWG and is known NOT to last.

Seemed on the lower-mid end but looked like it was actually a reliable unit after they fixed a seal/design problem a couple years ago?

I suggest NOT getting a sand filter but instead get a cartridge filter. IMO they should phase out sand/DE filters (my personal opinion!).

I understand this can be personal preference. We were thinking sand w/ glass beads. Sun Screen concerns me on cartridges, I thought backwash might be good to dump some water because I hear with SCG we will need to add water to drop CYA.

Aqualink control system would be nice.
Lights should be compatible with control system if you get it.

I guess i'm not sure what a control system would really give us in our situation. We would really look to set the VSP to run lower speed for some period of time to reduce energy usage, it would need to be set to run enough GPM so the SCG works, I assume enough for the heat pump to function as well. I had assumed this was possible without investing in more costly automation. Maybe i'm wrong? Not sure what other benefits it provides. Not particularly interested in waterfall features, additional lighting feature integration. What am I missing on this one?

That price is really high. Have you talked with every builder you can find?

I have not, this was Laurel Pools and I've heard from several folks that they are reputable and a good value. I have an email into Browning and have not heard back, they specialize supposedly in fiberglass and start at $95k per their website. I did not describe to them specifically any budgets, just filled out the new pools contact us on their website. Any recommendations for someone serving Southwest Frederick County?

 

[Newdude]

Hey MD and welcome !!!

Interesting, that's what it's marketed as

Heat pumps excel at heating an already warm pool. Gas heaters excel at overcoming the elements to extend the season.

Seemed on the lower-mid end

Your $85k build price is not a lower-mid end type build. Do not skimp on the device which will keep the pool sanitary and do most of the work for you.

We were thinking sand w/ glass beads.

Many have reported other media being more trouble than they were worth. Or they worked only as well as the sand that the filter was designed for.

I thought backwash might be good to dump some water because I hear with SCG we will need to add water to drop CYA.

This is not something you'll need to do. You can put a 3 way valve to waste between the pump and filter, so you can drain/waste like a sand or DE filter. I'm another cartridge guy FWIW.

in more costly automation. Maybe i'm wrong? Not sure what other benefits it provides.

I have a VS pump and SWG and if I want to adjust them, I have to go over to the equipment pad. It's not often that I need to. Automation lets you do it from your phone. Attached spas for example, are nice to warm up while you're on your way home that day.

I have not, this was Laurel Pools and I've heard from several folks that they are reputable and a good value

$85k for a fiberglass install with some decking is not outrageous in the northeast. I mean. It's totally outrageous, but it's likely in the right ballpark as everyone else.

Get several quotes though or you'll second guess it forever. Make sure to match as much of it as possible so it's apples to apples and not quote A has a bigger patio and quote B has a bigger pool.

 

[PoolGate]

Sorry, I was trying to organize everything and it probably came out a bit discombobulated... The total $85k was all options installed that I listed in the entire post. The Optionals section are things I could remove. So if I removed everything i'd have a regular Liquid/Tablet chlorine pool with no mesh cover, concrete coping and no heat pump. Trying to fix it now.

What about any regulation required fencing around the pool? My pool included 120 feet of fencing and two gates.
3 feet of concrete is nothing. Make sure you lock in a price for additional concrete in your contract so you can add it later. We added a LOT more on the patio pour. We got a contract rate of $8/sq foot though.

We are going to get one for sure, was going to install myself to save money.

Wouldn't they install this? These need to be installed by someone that is familiar with what they are doing. Usually installation is included. You are drilling holes in your deck for the anchors.

We intend to get a SCG, I think he quoted the chlorine tablet Nature2, then SCG as an option. I didn't intend to use the mineral part. I would install this myself.
There are 2 Nature2 systems:
Fusion - Has a chlorine tablet feeder which you should NOT use and a mineral cartridge which you should NOT use.
FusionSoft - Has a saltwater chlorine generator cell and a mineral cartridge which you should NOT use.
I don't know if you want to install these yourself. Why? They require being plumbed in and electrically connected to the pump.

Interesting, that's what it's marketed as . We just do not want to swim in a freezing pool, if it's time to not swim because the heat pump can't heat water to where we want it, we'll stop swimming/close the pool.
Heater is needed in MD IMO because your water will always be in the low 80s in the summer without one. We swim in 90 or better so we got a gas heater. A heat pump will also maintain 90 all summer long.

Seemed on the lower-mid end but looked like it was actually a reliable unit after they fixed a seal/design problem a couple years ago?
Don't get it. It is junk not to mention it is sized too small for your pool. It is recommend to size a SWG at least twice the size of the pool. That means either the FusionSoft 1400 or the AquaPure 1400.

I understand this can be personal preference. We were thinking sand w/ glass beads. Sun Screen concerns me on cartridges, I thought backwash might be good to dump some water because I hear with SCG we will need to add water to drop CYA.
CYA will not build up unless you use the chlorine tablets. There is no need to backwash for any reason. DE and sand are CONSTANT maintenance. Not to mention the multiport valve will eventually fail. Cartridge filters you clean 1 or 2 times the entire season. Cartridges last 3-5 years.
I think they were referring to pH always rising with SWGs. This is because the chlorine tablets have acid in them which will be replaced with additions of acid as one of your maintenance tasks. It is not a big deal.

I guess i'm not sure what a control system would really give us in our situation. We would really look to set the VSP to run lower speed for some period of time to reduce energy usage, it would need to be set to run enough GPM so the SCG works, I assume enough for the heat pump to function as well. I had assumed this was possible without investing in more costly automation. Maybe i'm wrong? Not sure what other benefits it provides. Not particularly interested in waterfall features, additional lighting feature integration. What am I missing on this one?
You would be able to turn on the heater and lights from your phone. You would also be able to schedule things if desired. You can also see the pool status, water temp, air temp, etc. I use mine to also control my low voltage garden lights. It is a "nice to have".

I have not, this was Laurel Pools and I've heard from several folks that they are reputable and a good value. I have an email into Browning and have not heard back, they specialize supposedly in fiberglass and start at $95k per their website. I did not describe to them specifically any budgets, just filled out the new pools contact us on their website. Any recommendations for someone serving Southwest Frederick County?
Ha! You can skip Browning they are the most expensive builder in the country. But pull out the phonebook and call every single one that will come to your house and give you an estimate.

Did you get a quite on gunite? Ask the builder how many gallons that pool is. Ask this for any quotes on fiberglass pools they should be able to tell you this.

 

[PoolGate]

Builders almost never know what equipment is best for pools or how to manage the pool water once the pool is built. The longer they have been in business it seems the less they know. "I've been building pools for 30 years!" means they know what the knew when they started 30 years ago and never updated their knowledge base. Use your builder to build your pool and wave goodbye to them when they are done. With any luck, you will never, ever, have to talk with them again.

 

[kimkats]

Well I am coming in at the easy part as @PoolGate and @Newdude are doing the heavy lifting. I am here to tell you to listen to them. They know of what they speak! Thanks guys!

 

[MDRetirement]

Sorry, I was trying to organize everything and it probably came out a bit discombobulated... The total $85k was all options installed that I listed in the entire post. The Optionals section are things I could remove. So if I removed everything i'd have a regular Liquid/Tablet chlorine pool with no mesh cover, concrete coping and no heat pump. Trying to fix it now.

What about any regulation required fencing around the pool? My pool included 120 feet of fencing and two gates.
3 feet of concrete is nothing. Make sure you lock in a price for additional concrete in your contract so you can add it later. We added a LOT more on the patio pour. We got a contract rate of $8/sq foot though.

We'll add the fencing separately ourselves. Probably adjust 3ft perimeter to 4ft to give extra space to pad mount the fencing. We have no decided on the patio size yet, we are still figuring out the positioning of the pool. I just graded out a 30x60 pad myself last month and had a contractor come to pour/finish... It's going to kill me paying the amount they will charge for concrete compared to what I got the building pad done for.

We are going to get one for sure, was going to install myself to save money.

Wouldn't they install this? These need to be installed by someone that is familiar with what they are doing. Usually installation is included. You are drilling holes in your deck for the anchors.

They would, but for what looks to be about $2k-$2.5k. I've looked at some covers from places like pool warehouse and they are $1200-$1600 shipped.

We intend to get a SCG, I think he quoted the chlorine tablet Nature2, then SCG as an option. I didn't intend to use the mineral part. I would install this myself.
There are 2 Nature2 systems:
Fusion - Has a chlorine tablet feeder which you should NOT use and a mineral cartridge which you should NOT use.
FusionSoft - Has a saltwater chlorine generator cell and a mineral cartridge which you should NOT use.
I don't know if you want to install these yourself. Why? They require being plumbed in and electrically connected to the pump.

I find it interesting they quoted me the nature2 puck feeder version and then want to charge another $3k for the TrueClear system. I imagine the Soft version of the Nature2 is probably $600-$700 more than the puck feeder. I'll ask them to swap the Nature2 Fusion to Nature2 Fusion Soft 1400.

Interesting, that's what it's marketed as . We just do not want to swim in a freezing pool, if it's time to not swim because the heat pump can't heat water to where we want it, we'll stop swimming/close the pool.
Heater is needed in MD IMO because your water will always be in the low 80s in the summer without one. We swim in 90 or better so we got a gas heater. A heat pump will also maintain 90 all summer long.

I agree, I think the Heat Pump will do well for us, we have solar already and will add more to cover the pool and the inevitable electric cars in the future. We aren't doing gas because we have propane only and we're working our way out of propane (Range and emergency heat are only things left on it).

Seemed on the lower-mid end but looked like it was actually a reliable unit after they fixed a seal/design problem a couple years ago?
Don't get it. It is junk not to mention it is sized too small for your pool. It is recommend to size a SWG at least twice the size of the pool. That means either the FusionSoft 1400 or the AquaPure 1400.

Confirmed, not getting it.

I understand this can be personal preference. We were thinking sand w/ glass beads. Sun Screen concerns me on cartridges, I thought backwash might be good to dump some water because I hear with SCG we will need to add water to drop CYA.
CYA will not build up unless you use the chlorine tablets. There is no need to backwash for any reason. DE and sand are CONSTANT maintenance. Not to mention the multiport valve will eventually fail. Cartridge filters you clean 1 or 2 times the entire season. Cartridges last 3-5 years.
I think they were referring to pH always rising with SWGs. This is because the chlorine tablets have acid in them which will be replaced with additions of acid as one of your maintenance tasks. It is not a big deal.

I'm going to research cartridges some more. Father in-law has had sand filters and I guess I never notice water quality issues when I swim in their pool. Always feels nice, eyes don't burn and he doesn't complain about back flushing. I did talk to my mother in-law and she mentioned the water usage actually.

I guess i'm not sure what a control system would really give us in our situation. We would really look to set the VSP to run lower speed for some period of time to reduce energy usage, it would need to be set to run enough GPM so the SCG works, I assume enough for the heat pump to function as well. I had assumed this was possible without investing in more costly automation. Maybe i'm wrong? Not sure what other benefits it provides. Not particularly interested in waterfall features, additional lighting feature integration. What am I missing on this one?
You would be able to turn on the heater and lights from your phone. You would also be able to schedule things if desired. You can also see the pool status, water temp, air temp, etc. I use mine to also control my low voltage garden lights. It is a "nice to have".

I think it would be neat to control and see things from my phone (Our light switches are all Zigbee/Zwave and controlled by smart things automation. I'm just not sure if the pool is really going to need it. If I don't have it, I won't miss it kind of thing maybe and if I can get by with things on a basic schedule and it doesn't need too much fiddling maybe I won't really miss it .

I have not, this was Laurel Pools and I've heard from several folks that they are reputable and a good value. I have an email into Browning and have not heard back, they specialize supposedly in fiberglass and start at $95k per their website. I did not describe to them specifically any budgets, just filled out the new pools contact us on their website. Any recommendations for someone serving Southwest Frederick County?
Ha! You can skip Browning they are the most expensive builder in the country. But pull out the phonebook and call every single one that will come to your house and give you an estimate.

They won't respond, but I was kind of wary about engaging just anyone, i'll find some other people in the area and see what comes back.

Did you get a quite on gunite? Ask the builder how many gallons that pool is. Ask this for any quotes on fiberglass pools they should be able to tell you this.

I did not. The Corinthian 16 is a 16x40 exterior dimension and is 15,400 gallons per Latham spec (Will vary by some % as the dimensions says +/- 3%).

 

[MDRetirement]

Hey MD and welcome !!!

Heat pumps excel at heating an already warm pool. Gas heaters excel at overcoming the elements to extend the season.

Realizing this now and propane heater isn't really an option we want to pursue so we'll just stick with the heat pump.

Your $85k build price is not a lower-mid end type build. Do not skimp on the device which will keep the pool sanitary and do most of the work for you.

Many have reported other media being more trouble than they were worth. Or they worked only as well as the sand that the filter was designed for.

Going to research cartridges a little more... Father in law uses a sand filter and has for awhile and hasn't complained about maintenance of it, seems like i'm either replacing sand at 5 years and doing backflushes at 10psi above operating pressure or replacing cartridges at 3-5 years and cleaning them 1-2x a year.

This is not something you'll need to do. You can put a 3 way valve to waste between the pump and filter, so you can drain/waste like a sand or DE filter. I'm another cartridge guy FWIW.

View attachment 489788

I was thinking that the bypass being built in would be easier, but yea, no reason a waste valve can't be plumbed in! I don't know why I thought I would need to dump water and refill due to CYA for salt... Maybe it was like the other person mentioned, for increasing ph levels. Also, if we top off with our well for evaporation, our non-buffered water has a really low pH (5.5). We have an acid neutralizer for the house that the outside faucets bypass already.

I have a VS pump and SWG and if I want to adjust them, I have to go over to the equipment pad. It's not often that I need to. Automation lets you do it from your phone. Attached spas for example, are nice to warm up while you're on your way home that day.

I'm not sure automation for us would really be a benefit. I don't mind changing settings during season changes or having to adjust things to get it right initially, then tune again. As long as i'm not out there once a day having to adjust, or a couple times a week. If I can generally set for a season and tune a few times I don't think automation is going to be worth the investment right now.

$85k for a fiberglass install with some decking is not outrageous in the northeast. I mean. It's totally outrageous, but it's likely in the right ballpark as everyone else.

I was expecting to start at $100-$110k for a basic pool, gunite or fiberglass.

Get several quotes though or you'll second guess it forever. Make sure to match as much of it as possible so it's apples to apples and not quote A has a bigger patio and quote B has a bigger pool.

Going to get a couple more quotes at least, was trying to start with browning as I remembered them growing up and they used to be HQ'd in our local area if I remember right, but i'll try to find a couple more companies that are not browning since I know they won't be competitive with the first bid and likely super high.

 

[PoolGate]

They would, but for what looks to be about $2k-$2.5k. I've looked at some covers from places like pool warehouse and they are $1200-$1600 shipped.

With a rectangle pool you have lots of options.

I find it interesting they quoted me the nature2 puck feeder version and then want to charge another $3k for the TrueClear system. I imagine the Soft version of the Nature2 is probably $600-$700 more than the puck feeder. I'll ask them to swap the Nature2 Fusion to Nature2 Fusion Soft 1400.

Great example of builders not knowing how to actually manage a pool and pool-water once built. They push these mineral sanitizers which have expensive consumables and do nothing positive for you. Their thing is to convince you that chlorine is the enemy and you should not use enough of it. Then they sell you magic potions that hide the fact that your pool is not sanitary. The FusionSoft is also going to cost you $3k more. It has significantly more parts. In addition to the vessel, it has the salt cell ($700 by itself) and the power supply. It is worth it! In either case, dump the Nature2 puck feeder.

I'm going to research cartridges some more. Father in-law has had sand filters and I guess I never notice water quality issues when I swim in their pool. Always feels nice, eyes don't burn and he doesn't complain about back flushing. I did talk to my mother in-law and she mentioned the water usage actually.

The filter type has NOTHING to do with water quality. It is purely a storage location for particulate matter filtered from the water column. Eyes burn if water is not balanced. Water "feels" nice due to proper balancing. Cartridge filters filter just as good but are WAY easier to manage.

I did not. The Corinthian 16 is a 16x40 exterior dimension and is 15,400 gallons per Latham spec (Will vary by some % as the dimensions says +/- 3%).

Your builder will probably fight you on the SWG. Then he will relent but try to sell you the 700 series. Bigger is ALWAYS better with SWGs (same with heaters). You can run it less often. Stick with either the FusionSoft 1400 or the AquaPure 1400. All your builder is for is to build your pool. I highly suggest you take no advice from him on how to maintain the pool. That goes for pool stores as well. This site is all you need to be a very happy pool owner. With TFP you will have a cheaper to run pool and a LOT more sanitized.

 

[Newdude]

Realizing this now and propane heater isn't really an option we want to pursue so we'll just stick with the heat pump.

There are many reasons to go HP even if it doesn't fit your ideal use. PV solar to offset the costs or aversion/inavailability to expensive LP/NG are 2 biggies. We just want you to go in with your eyes wide open.

I had a HP on a large pool and sometimes it couldn't overcome a cool shoulder season. On the plus side, if it was cool, nobody really felt like swimming anyway.

replacing cartridges at 3-5 years and cleaning them 1-2x a year.

My old carts were 8.5 years old and going strong when we moved. I'm hoping for similar with the new house.

A properly sized sand filter won our water clarity contest a while back, no small feat amongst the enthusiasts here. They work just fine.

It comes down to picking your poison on what you'd rather deal with.

don't know why I thought I would need to dump water and refill due to CYA for salt

There is SO much misinformation out there, much if it from the industry themselves. You have us now and are in a GREAT spot.

As long as i'm not out there once a day having to adjust, or a couple times a week

Water features that need to be purged once or twice a day and attached spas are two biggies that most would want automation for. Simple pools don't need it unless the owner wants to go high tech.

Also, +1 on *every* viewpoint @PoolGate offered.