What's the best solar heat panels?

[fortunate]

I have a new pool and the house is under construction. I have a GC, so the installation will be professional. I want to make sure I get the best product for solar heating the pool. My budget went out the window a while ago!

The climate is pretty warm year round (basically perpetual summer, never freezes), but it'll still come in handy a few months per year. Also I have an infinity edge, which will make the water cooler. Lastly I have a convenient large unused area that is completely out of sight, might as well cover it with ugly panels -- less mowing!

The GC suggested Fafco Sunsaver: 11 panels that are 4' x 12' each. I wasn't kidding about the large area! A quick search on Fafco shows a lot of negativity, with pictures to back it up. It seems the panels get clogged easily and leak over time. The last thing I want is leaking panels, especially having so many panels. Also the company seems to have poor support, despite being seemingly large and popular.

Are there other brands I should consider? Heliocol? Does any one brand stand out as making the better product?

 

[ajw22]

Let’s see what @Dirk says.

Solar Pool Heaters - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Dirk]

I've only ever owned Heliocol, so I don't have direct experience with any other brands. Many brands use a large diameter chunk of hose and two hose clamps to connect each panel's manifold to the next. With 11 panels you'd have a couple dozen of these under the hot sun, for years. This is the component that most often leaks. Sometimes you just need to tighten he clamps, other times you have to also replace the hose. I would avoid any brands that use this type of connection.

Heliocol has a different system for connecting manifolds, that uses an o-ring completely hidden from the sun, and this is why I chose Heliocol and why I think they are superior to the others (among other things).


They also have a great mounting system that allows the panels to expand and contract and move as they need to, and are designed to withstand wind loads without the additional strapping or tie downs that other brands require. They also have a spacer system that suspends the tiny tubes off the roof, which eliminates the abrasion that occurs when the tubing is in direct contact with the roofing material, which causes them to fail prematurely. Remember, the panels are constantly expanding and contracting each day, so they move around quite a bit.

So that's why I like Heliocol, and some things to watch for from other brands.

That said, they're not cheap. Mine are about five years old, and back then I saw the 4x12.5' panels going for $1,000 EACH. I got mine direct from a solar installer that sold them to me for about $300 each, which is still more than many other brands.

I doubt very much, especially considering your weather conditions, that one brand will heat your pool significantly more or less than another brand. They're all basically the same: little black tubes out in the sun. So I would tend to ignore any claims or sales pitches to the contrary. So for me, the critical comparison comes down to how long will they last, and how much maintenance will they require, and how long is the warranty.

My panels have a 20-year warranty, and in five years have required zero maintenance. So my "guess" that Heliocols are made about as well as a solar panel can be, is so far working out.

 

[fortunate]

Super interesting link ajw22, and thinks for all the info Dirk!

Interesting point about the panel connections. Having the panel connection fail is annoying but I suppose it much cheaper and easier to fix than having a panel fail.

The Heliocol website doesn't work for me, just shows a loading spinner, so I didn't look at them further. I use Firefox but I tried Chromium now and the site loads. Still a negative point for them! Firefox master race!

Heliocol looks quite similar to the Fafco tubes, but probably higher quality.

Until now I've been eyeing Vortex (which I think is the same as Techno-Solis?). I like the design, the extruded plastic seems stronger than tubes. A downside to this monolithic design might be additional stress from thermal expansion. However, I don't see users reporting issues with it beyond tightening clamps between panels. It uses EPDM hoses for connecting panels, which I believe is what you suggested to avoid.

Heliocol is about $750/panel. Vortex is $315 (looking at SolarDirect). Price is not a major factor, but why is there such a big gap?! Is Vortex a Techno-Solis knockoff? But then I find Techno-Solis for sale elsewhere for about the same price.

I'm still torn between the two. I like the rugged Vortex design but Heliocol looks good and is probably better.

 

[Dirk]

Include warranty length in your decision making process. Most products with warranties count on the fact that consumers will forget all about the warranty, and just buy a new one. Which means warranties are really just to trick you into buying a product, and don't have any real value. But I think that would be less true of solar panels, where manufacturers are more likely to be held accountable, which means they wouldn't offer a warranty for a period of time their products wouldn't last. This is just a theory, but for a company to offer a warranty on a product that lives entirely outdoors, on a roof no less, is an indication of how long you could expect they will last.

But more importantly, it means how long you can expect your investment to heat your pool, even if it means panels are getting replaced. But that's only true if the company is around for that long, so that's another aspect of the decision. Heliocol has been in business since 1977 (that's 47 years!), which is another indication that even if my panels fail, I'll be getting what I paid for for another 15 years. So that's means I'll pay about $150 a year to heat my pool. (My system was $3K total because I installed it myself.)

To me, that's the math that's more important than $750 vs $315. Upfront cost of a panel is only part of the equation.

 

[Dirk]

Heliocol was established in 1977.
Fafco has been around since 1969.
Vortex Energy was founded in 2005, and is based in Poland.

I didn't research warranties. Rely on above as you would any info you get from a quick google search (by someone you just met on an Internet forum!).

 

[Joshii]

Consider as an alternative the Hotspot FPH pool heater. It hooks up to your house AC and dumps the waste heat into your pool. Better cooling of your house and free pool heat with very little footprint on your yard. Would be ideal for puerto rico. You can see threads here for others who have installed it

 

[Dirk]

Consider as an alternative the Hotspot FPH pool heater. It hooks up to your house AC and dumps the waste heat into your pool. Better cooling of your house and free pool heat with very little footprint on your yard. Would be ideal for puerto rico. You can see threads here for others who have installed it

That's very interesting! I don't need to run my AC all that much, certainly not enough to heat my pool. But if someone regularly runs their AC for most of the day, that certainly would be worth looking into.

I read somewhere that someone put a truck radiator in their attic and pumps their pool water through that! Lots of ways to get'er done, I suppose.

I like my "free" solar heat, but for some parts of the year I'd love for my pool to be a bit warmer. I have a gas heater, but can't afford to use it. Having more than one cost-effective system would be ideal. And heating up the outdoors with wasted AC heat exchange certainly is just that, a waste.

 

[Ahultin]

I installed "SwimJoy" panels from solar pool supply. They are private label for SPS but are manufactured by Magen Eco-Energy who also makes Heliocol so they use the same panel connectors and a similiar attachment method but are @33% less expensive (not quite as cheap as what @Dirk stole paid for his heliocol panels) with the same warranty.

 

[Dirk]

not quite as cheap as what @Dirk stole paid for his heliocol panels

Right!? I've tried to get others here the same deal, but the company stopped offering it (no mystery why). They were selling "DIY Solar Kits" to locals that wanted to install their own system. Not only was the price of the panels crazy, but the kit included literally everything I needed, down to rags for wiping up the PVC glue! They sold me black UV PVC (which is hard to find) and sweep elbows, and the solar valve, wire, screws, everything.

They even helped me hoist the panels onto the roof the day they delivered, and gave me phone support when I got stuck on how to do something. I don't know how they made any money on it. I really did luck out.

 

[fortunate]

Gah, lost my long reply. Here we go again...

I normally disregard warranty, but it makes sense to judge a manufacturer's confidence in longevity, assuming the service warranty claims. Vortex is 10 years. Heliocol and Aquatherm are 12. I didn't read the fine print. TFP users report Vortex failure at 8 years, with some luck or patching some get 10 years. I don't find talk about Heliocol failure, so that may be a good indicator.

I'm currently leaning toward Heliocol. Working on sourcing/pricing.

The Hotspot FPH is interesting, thanks! I have to run the AC all the time. Unfortunately my AC units are pretty far from the pool, but I'll run it by the GC.

My panels will go in my lower yard, which is otherwise unusable. This puts them quite a bit lower than the pool, maybe 12', which is probably rare. I don't think water will ever drain out of the panels in this configuration, even with a non-positive diverter. I'll have a manual valve to drain for servicing and a vacuum relief valve for when that is in use, but otherwise I think the panels will always be full of water. That can cause damage via thermal expansion, but I think if it's sunny that the solar panels will be in use, so hopefully there will never be hot water sitting in them. The panels get full sun from 9am to 4pm.

I wanted a seamless line from the pool to the horizon/sea beyond, so I plastered right up to the infinity edge, despite everyone's opinion that that is a bad idea. I can enjoy it until the regret. Anyway, that means I'll be running the edge pump nonstop to keep the plaster wet. At least I'll have a TON of skimming! Anyway, my GC thinks the infinity edge is going to cool the water a whole lot, especially with the pump running nonstop, so the solar panels will always have circulation whenever it's sunny. He thinks the panels will be barely enough to keep the pool warm. The panels are 95% of the area of the pool.

 

[Dirk]

Heliocol and Aquatherm are 12.

Hmm, I may have misunderstood. Maybe the additional eight were from my local retailer? I'll have to check on that, I thought I had 20. Sorry for the misinformation.

Sounds like you have a good handle on everything. Stick with the plan, but leave a way to add more panels, which might dictate how you position them, or how you might add a few extra tees and stub outs. See how they work, add more later if you need to.

If the panels will always be full of water, you just have to think through the placement (or elimination) of strategic check valves. As long as you have a vacuum breaker and a constantly unrestricted path back to the pool, then expansion and contraction shouldn't be an issue. You kinda have to do that, as trapped expansion and contraction forces on a solar panel array are definitely enough to tear them apart.

 

[Ahultin]

WARRANTY:
This is a twelve (12) year limited warranty issued by UMA Distributors, LLC, 950 Sunshine Lane, Altamonte Springs, Florida 32714
(”UMA Solar”) covering Heliocol collectors (”Collector”) and components manufactured by Magen eco-Energy (”MeE”), when purchased
for use on residential or commercial solar heating swimming pools. This warranty is non-transferrable and applies only to the original
Purchaser and only to its original installation. When used for its intended purpose and properly maintained, UMA Solar warrants that
the collector and components will be free from defect in materials and workmanship in the manufacturing process under normal use for
a period of twelve (12) years from the Date of Purchase (”Warranty Period”). Collectors must be purchased from and properly installed
by an authorized dealer. During that time, should a Collector or component exhibit a manufacturing defect, the defective collector or
component will be repaired or replaced at UMA Solar’s option, without charge for the equipment and/or labor by UMA Solar, or its authorized
dealer. The Warranty Period shall begin the date of installation when purchased from and properly installed by an authorized
dealer.

BONUS LIFETIME LIMITED WARRANTY:
Heliocol collectors carry a Lifetime Limited Warranty for the Original Purchaser for the useful life of the collector. Any Heliocol collector
found to be defective in material or workmanship subsequent to the initial Twelve (12) Year Warranty will be replaced, so long as the
Original Purchaser pays fifty percent (50%) of the published MSRP at the time replacement is required. No labor, removal, reinstallation,
or shipping costs will be covered by the manufacturer after the expiration of the original Twelve (12) Year Warranty. The Bonus Lifetime
Limited Warranty is for the lifetime of the product and to the Original Purchaser only.

 

[Ahultin]

Hmm, I may have misunderstood. Maybe the additional eight were from my local retailer? I'll have to check on that, I thought I had 20. Sorry for the misinformation.

12yrs base plus lifetime to original purchaser @50%

 

[Dirk]

12yrs base plus lifetime to original purchaser @50%

Ah, thank you. I'm fully expecting I might have an issue regardless, because I installed them myself. The company that sold them to me mentioned something to that effect, but at the time I had made the decision I made. Their bid was $10K, I did it myself for $3K. The math was easy. I could replace the entire array at my expense and still come out ahead. Maybe they told me 12 years on the panels and 8 more if they installed?

This is why warranties are great marketing. Nobody remembers them when the time comes!

 

[fortunate]

Haha, yep I hate warranties. If I care about a thing and it breaks, being at the mercy of their support sucks, especially calling and waiting on the phone.

Someone mentioned Aquatherm UltraSun has a 20 year warranty, but I couldn't find it.

Good point about the pressures. Even if the panels won't drain, the non-positive diverter still allows pressure to escape.

It's been quite a lot of research but it feels good to have a handle on things!

 

[Ahultin]

This is why warranties are great marketing. Nobody remembers them when the time comes!

Almost nobody lol. We built our home so lots of home stuff is lifetime to the original purchaser. Kwikset (door hardware) and Danze (all our plumbing fixtures) know me by name . Im sure if we have not moved into loss territory for both of them we are close.
Danze has to replace our pot filler about every 4-5yrs because an o-ring (that according to them is not a user serviceable part) starts to leak.

 

[Dirk]

Almost nobody lol. We built our home so lots of home stuff is lifetime to the original purchaser. Kwikset (door hardware) and Danze (all our plumbing fixtures) know me by name . Im sure if we have not moved into loss territory for both of them we are close.
Danze has to replace our pot filler about every 4-5yrs because an o-ring (that according to them is not a user serviceable part) starts to leak.

Ha, I'm the king of saving warranty info. Case in point: My very expensive yard furniture came with coupons for a second set of slings. You could get replacements up to 15 years after purchase. I was getting close to 15 years, after moving to a new house, and wanted a different color anyway. So I found a local dealer and went in to inquire of the replacement deal. They hemmed and hawed and finally acknowledged the original offer, but then read me the list: "Oh, you gotta have all the original receipts, and all the coupons for each sling, plus the original tags that were attached to the furniture..." etc. I'm holding a big manila envelope and whipped out every one of the doc's. "You mean these!?" I said. BAM! They were floored, but I got all new slings. I'm guessing several thousand dollars worth!

Hee, hee, don't mess with Paperwork Dirk!