Considering a SWCG. Thoughts?

[Padle]

I literally have the calimar in my cart & had sticker shock over the shipping! I just left it there in the hopes there will possibly be a free shipping offer.

I wouldn't hold your breath on that one

There's usually a reason why something is cheap in life, no free shipping is one of them...

As a FYI the rep that I did speak to said a DIY install would void their warranty.

So, with everything said above, I'm ordering my universal 55 tonight for $1269

 

[Mdragger88]

I wouldn't hold your breath on that one

There's usually a reason why something is cheap in life, no free shipping is one of them...

As a FYI the rep that I did speak to said a DIY install would void their warranty.

So, with everything said above, I'm ordering my universal 55 tonight for $1269

Wow - well technically I am a professional so there’s that much to ponder

 

[jmastron]

Back with some Calimar answers and observations, sorry for the delay! Interesting; I see the CMARSHA40-3Y for $880 with free shipping (Here), but the CMARSHA60-3Y is $780 without free shipping (Here). Ground shipping for the 60 shows as $39.96 for me but I’m probably closer. No idea why they’re priced that way. For reference, I bought the CMARSHA40-3Y in May 2021 for $605 with free shipping (which is the price the 15k unit is now). Definitely a big jump (like all pool products); I think they hadn’t raised prices yet when I bought.

For sizing, I find the 40k to be just fine for my ~23K gallon pool. At the peak of summer (full sun, 100+ degree highs, 88+ degree water) when the cover was off I needed ~8-9 hours max runtime, and less all other times of the year or when I have the solar cover on during the day. The key is CYA level; keeping it around 80ppm during mid summer makes a big difference in how much FC is lost each day to be made up. I know some use "2x" as a guideline, but I don't see that as an absolute minimum if CYA levels are managed.

On the controls, the CMARSHA units have a dial for output control in 1% increments (yes, any number 0-100), the same as the Circupool Universal and Hayward Aquarite systems. I went outside in the rain and verified that (the control is analog, but the digital display shows the percentage #). I leave mine at 100% and use a WiFi outlet to control the time (so I can adjust from inside where I test), but fine-grain control is available. I think there are other Calimar products that are generics of other products with different/less granular controls

On the specs, I also don’t know what the Calimar production and cell life specs are, which I was okay with for the savings. I have empirically measured the production using some overnight gain tests, and it appears to be equivalent to 1.3-1.4 pounds/day, similar to the Hayward T-15. I did a rough estimate of hours throughout the year, and I’ve used between 1200-1500 hours a year (at 100%). So I’ll let everyone know after 4-6 years how long it lasted . While Circupool publishes specs and has salespeople who can quote them, beware that there are several threads here where people with larger (60k) Circupool units did actual overnight gain testing and found they didn’t generate nearly as much FC gain as they expected (and paid for), and Circupool support just shrugs their shoulders. So they end up running for more hours than planned, and use up the cell just as fast as the smaller unit would have.

In any case, hopefully everyone ends up happy with whatever you install!

 

[Padle]

Thanks on much for all the info! So doing some digging online, it's very interesting how circupool rates theirs vs calimar in regard to chlorine output. I did some digging on calimar and found this on a manual for their platinum series

Calimar 25K .78 pounds
Calimar 40K. 1.35 pounds
Calimar 60K 1.88 Pounds

Circupool Universal 25K 1.25 Gallons
Circupool Universal 40K 2 Gallons
Circupool Universal 55K 2.9 Gallons

The calimar numbers for the 40 are in line with what @jmastron posted, so I assume the rest are correct.

If and big if, the circupool numbers are correct, that is also another factor that makes up for the price difference.

Anyway everyone will have to make their own choice. I currently have a single speed pump which I run just 4 hours a day, so I need something that can produce at a very high level in a short period of time, so seems like calimar is out of the running for me.

If calimar was crazy cheap, and good value, it would have been worth replacing my pump, but alas that's not the case.

I ran the math on replacing my pump with VSP, the ROI is about 7 years, so not worth it. I generally live with the theory, if it ain't broke don't fix it. At my first house I had a really old AC unit, and it barely had any issues compared to all the new shiny energy saving ac units that seem to break every 10-15 years.

 

[Newdude]

I know some use "2x" as a guideline, but I don't see that as an absolute minimum if CYA levels are managed.

It's half for longevity and half for runtime options.

Climate matters too. I could easily go with a 1X up north because I run 24/7 anyway. 1X may not be enough to keep up in the peak season down south.

But from an investment perspective, I would have bought a 3X if it was available. In the hot climates with long brutal seasons I wouldn't hesitate to go 4X. (If they made a residential model big enough)

 

[Padle]

In the hot climates with long brutal seasons I wouldn't hesitate to go 4X. (If they made a residential model big enough)

That would depend on the size of the pool

 

[Newdude]

That would depend on the size of the pool

Exactly. They make commercial models that are larger but are also far more expensive.

People will usually siamese 2 residential units instead of buying 1 commercial unit if they have a very large pool.

But for southern folks with up to 15k gallons, i'd go 60k any day of the week for longevity and the investment cost being heavily in my favor.

 

[Mdragger88]

@Padle , I feel that you would definitely benefit from the largest swg production you could get being in sunny Florida & having a very long swim season.
Thanks so much for the screenshot, I have saved it & will do some pondering. My pool is larger than yours but my dog days of summer don’t last quite as long.
I also have a single speed pump & a spare one in the shed so that factor isn’t going to change for me anytime soon. It looks like I wasn’t comparing apples to apples- the calimar 60 unit is more comparable to the universal 40 not the universal 55.
My original thought/plan was that I would go with the Universal 40 (that used to be the highest available in that line anyway) & then just upgrade the cell to the 55 later if I find it necessary since that became available. But I never pulled the trigger & have muttled along with my tiny swg.
I am not sure if that is possible but I think it should be. (I will definitely inquire about this before purchasing)
Here are the differences in my pool-
I generally run my pump at least 8hrs a day for skimming/fountain.

I also have concerns over the unpublished cell life hours for the calimar units - now that I realize the comparable savings is only $174 it makes the calimar seem risky for not much savings & possibly hard to retain customer service.

 

[Padle]

@Padle , I feel that you would definitely benefit from the largest swg production you could get being in sunny Florida & having a very long swim season.
Thanks so much for the screenshot, I have saved it & will do some pondering. My pool is larger than yours but my dog days of summer don’t last quite as long.
I also have a single speed pump & a spare one in the shed so that factor isn’t going to change for me anytime soon. It looks like I wasn’t comparing apples to apples- the calimar 60 unit is more comparable to the universal 40 not the universal 55.
My original thought/plan was that I would go with the Universal 40 (that used to be the highest available in that line anyway) & then just upgrade the cell to the 55 later if I find it necessary since that became available. But I never pulled the trigger & have muttled along with my tiny swg.
I am not sure if that is possible but I think it should be. (I will definitely inquire about this before purchasing)
Here are the differences in my pool-
I generally run my pump at least 8hrs a day for skimming/fountain.
View attachment 469276View attachment 469277View attachment 469278
I also have concerns over the unpublished cell life hours for the calimar units - now that I realize the comparable savings is only $174 it makes the calimar seem risky for not much savings & possibly hard to retain customer service.

Yup, I did order the 55 last night! After Jmastron posted, I had some buyers regret until I came across this new info, that I was comparing apples to oranges.

Also to correct your prices, with the current sale
the U55 is 1269
The U40 is 1069

There, I saved you $20

 

[Mdragger88]

I think you’ll be very pleased with your choice. Keep us posted on how it goes & feel free to ask any questions along the way

 

[Rick T]

I've been thinking of biting the bullet and converting to salt. I already paid the expense 2 years ago to convert to liquid. I had to wire in a 220v outlet, buy a 30 gallon chemical barrel, and a Stenner pump. Except for refilling the barrel once a month it's pretty easy. The reason I'm thinking of switching is I usually get my chlorine from Home Depot. They used to sell a 10% concentrate 4 gallon case for around $12/case and 10% off if you bought 3 or more cases. Currently here in SW Houston they are charging $40 for the same 4 gallon case or $9/gallon. Walmart has the exact same brand for $5.47/gal. Oddly their 2 gallon case jumps to $17.13. I use somewhere around +/- 1 gallon/week. How much is an estimate to switch it over to salt, what is the weekly cost of salt? Curious how long it will take in cheaper chemicals to pay for the conversion. Thanks.

 

[PoolStored]

I've been thinking of biting the bullet and converting to salt. I already paid the expense 2 years ago to convert to liquid. I had to wire in a 220v outlet, buy a 30 gallon chemical barrel, and a Stenner pump. Except for refilling the barrel once a month it's pretty easy. The reason I'm thinking of switching is I usually get my chlorine from Home Depot. They used to sell a 10% concentrate 4 gallon case for around $12/case and 10% off if you bought 3 or more cases. Currently here in SW Houston they are charging $40 for the same 4 gallon case or $9/gallon. Walmart has the exact same brand for $5.47/gal. Oddly their 2 gallon case jumps to $17.13. I use somewhere around +/- 1 gallon/week. How much is an estimate to switch it over to salt, what is the weekly cost of salt? Curious how long it will take in cheaper chemicals to pay for the conversion. Thanks.

I used about $300/year with my stenner. That was prepandemic prices. My Season is only 6-7 month. Yours is longer. 52 Weeks x $6 (including gas) = $312. You can likely get a system that would work nice for $1000-1200. (Yes, you can go cheaper, but likely have frustrations with quality etc.) That would make it a 4 year payback.

I switched last year. I cared about the payback then, I don't care about the payback now. I got payback in spades because it is so much less worry and fuss. SWCG is truly magic. I wouldn't go back if you paid me. I also happen to live in a rural area and going to the store for chlorine is a PITA.

 

[Newdude]

How much is an estimate to switch it over to salt, what is the weekly cost of salt?

You won't need much to start the season with such a short off season, then it will be one $5 - $8 bag every month or two to replace what's lost to rain overflow. Each 40 lb bag gets you 265 ppm and you'll just occasionally top it off. Most chlorine pools are well on their way to 'salt pool' salinity so make sure to get your baseline before adding any.

For reference, i needed 19 bags to start my new pool up with 0 salt with 30k+ gallons. Even using the 'expensive' pool store salt, it was well under $150.

Curious how long it will take in cheaper chemicals to pay for the conversion. Thanks.

It's mostly all the upfront cost of the SWG/controller. Salt is cheap when you need some.

 

[Newdude]

I switched last year. I cared about the payback then, I don't care about the payback now. I got payback in spades because it is so much less worry and fuss.

PoolStored PM'd me on day 3 after his switch that he was hooked. On day 7 he commented how boring SWGs were.

The 'magic' is that they just work and you're free to do anything else. (Once you dial it in and get over the learning curve). The overwhelming majority of folks kick themselves for not doing it sooner. You'll likely save a good deal over time, but by then you'll no longer care about that. It's the convenience that you'll love.

 

[pjt]

I use somewhere around +/- 1 gallon/week.

In the summer, you'll use a lot more than that. Probably just under a gallon every day. SWG is an easy decision from both a cost and convenience standpoint.

I add a 1 or 2 bags of salt about three times a year.

 

[Padle]

I just got my Universal 55 today excited to have installed.

 

[Mdragger88]

I just got my Universal 55 today excited to have installed.

That was fast !

 

[Rick T]

Any issues with natural stone (flagstone) as coping at the waterline? ANy residue or anything else I should worry about?

 

[Newdude]

Any issues with natural stone (flagstone) as coping at the waterline

If it isn't a durable version, moisture will erode it either way. There are varying quality levels within any stone. Unfortunately most of what's readily available in TX is susceptible to erosion. Shipping costs to bring in hardier stone make it unappealing for many.

ANy residue or anything else I should worry about?

Nope. It is what it is at this point and any poor quality materials already there will weather either way.

 

[Rick T]

Thanks. So, If I live in Houston with around 18,500 gallon pool, Quartsscape plaster, Penatair IntelifloXF variable speed pump, what system would you recommend? Also, My system runs on 220v.