Pentair - Intermittent No Comm Pump Stopping Issue

[SDPoolOwner]

Update....

With NOTHING other than the pool pump connected, the schedule has RUN as expected the last 6 days, e.g. it is working!

Seeing the original terminal corrosion distracted me from the original test and should have just started by testing the pump and board by themselves.

My next step is to reconnect the indoor control panel and see if the system still works, which would suggest the protocol adaptor is causing the issue.

If the above step works, are there steps to troubleshoot and fix the protocol adaptor besides resetting it through the pin hole? I tried that before and it didn't help. If there is no way to fix it, are there less expensive / generic adaptors? A replacement adaptor is expensive yet seems so basic.

Thanks again for everyone's help. I hope others learn from this in the future.

 

[Jimrahbe]

SD,

Usually, the outside wireless antenna is the faulty part and not the protocol adapter.

If you hardwired your EasyTouch into the protocol adapter, then lightning most likely tool out the RS-485 chip in the adapter.

Let's see if Tom has any repair inputs. Calling @ogdento

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ogdento]

Crack open your protocol adapter and you'll see a board screwed to the metal case... see the photo attached. Among other things, the board has the green comm connector and a 14 pin comm chip in the top right, see if that chip looks burned.

IMG955774.jpg

• ogdento
• Apr 6, 2022

 

[SDPoolOwner]

SD,

When the system is in AUTO the pump's display should say "Display not Active". If it does not, then the EasyTouch is not talking to the pump. If you are not in the SERVICE mode, you should not be able to use the pump's controls. This is another indication that the pump is not talking with the EasyTouch.

If the only thing connected to the com port is the pump, then most likely the main board's com chip is bad. It could also be a bad pump com chip, but 95% of the time is is due to a bad main board com chip.

The RS-485 com port can be loaded down by any device that is on the com port. This is why the above test is only valid if NOTHING is connected to the com port except the pump. Nothing else.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Jim R. -

Thank you. Your comments make sese.

2/19/23 Update:
After inconsistent behavior and hearing that the system could potentially "get confused" over time, I reset the system by deleting all programs and and hitting the reset button on the control panel with nothing other than the pump connected. I then added back very a very simple schedule and .... and behavior seemed to be much more consistent. I then proceeded to add back in my protocol adaptor to control the system by my phone and it seems to work 95%+ of the time. Over the last month, I only saw it stop/start one time.

Hope this update helps others.

 

[SDPoolOwner]

Crack open your protocol adapter and you'll see a board screwed to the metal case... see the photo attached. Among other things, the board has the green comm connector and a 14 pin comm chip in the top right, see if that chip looks burned.

IMG955774.jpg

• ogdento
• Apr 6, 2022

Thanks. I will keep this in mind if I continue to have issues. Fortunately, per my post just now, after clearing the system configuration it seems to be working better.

 

[SDPoolOwner]

The saga continues....

Per my previous post it seemed like things were working better...but recently experienced issues again with NO changes to the system.

Just yesterday, I noticed the pump lose connection (meaning the pump display will go from "Display Not Active" and running to showing the pump RPM and not running - I can turn it on manually and, when doing so, it will cycle from the manually set pump speed to the scheduled pump speed) 8 times within 30 minutes.

I called Pentair to get their opinion and spoke with two different people each with different assessments. The first said that it HAD to be the control board. The second thought it was the protocol adaptor. The first person didn't have a great argument as to why. The second individual asked if I had two lights on the back of the adaptor - one green steady and one yellow/amber flashing. I am pretty sure I have seen both in the past, but at that very moment I didn't have a yellow/amber light. I only had the green steady light. However, I could connect/log-in via my phone, but the data wasn't current. Earlier in the day, when speaking with the first customer service rep (who said it had to be the control board), I did see real-time data and tested controlling the system by turning on/off the pool lights.

Although I tried this test a while back, I now have the protocol adaptor disconnected to monitor status over the weekend in hopes to see if the protocol adaptor is causing issue. As such, the only thing connected is the Pentair VS pump. It has been almost 5 hours with no signs of issues, but I have seen this behavior in the past as my core problem is that this is an intermittent issue.

While I am conducting this test a few questions:

1. What does the yellow/amber light on the protocol adaptor light mean? I have not been able to find it online. The protocol adaptor is hard wired.
2. I have note yet physically inspected the protocol adaptor per ogdento's post above, but I read elsewhere and noticed in the photo there is a battery inside the unit. What is the battery for and could a dead battery be causing this behavior? I am just surprised that there is a battery inside a sealed unit.
3. Crazy as it sounds, I read another post about a couple people solving problems by turning the protocol adaptor upside down. Any any truth to this? The only thing I could imagine is perhaps improving the connection with the battery if the battery is critical.
4. If I rule out the protocol adaptor and need a new control board what is correct current model number? I currently have a Compool Easy Touch Upgrade, model 521103. This replaced the original Compool LX3800. It seems like Pentair no longer makes my upgrade model 521103. However, I found another Compool Easy Touch Upgrade model 521107 (without transformer) and 521247 (with transformer kit) and it seems compatible, but a) how do I confirm that it is one of these two, and b) what dictates buying it with or without the transformer?

As always, thank you for the help and I hope this thread post helps others with similar issues.

Thanks!

 

[ogdento]

Responses/comments to your questions:
1. What does the yellow/amber light on the protocol adaptor light mean?
these are the link/activity leds for the ethernet connection.

2. I have note yet physically inspected the protocol adaptor per ogdento's post above, but I read elsewhere and noticed in the photo there is a battery inside the unit. What is the battery for and could a dead battery be causing this behavior? I am just surprised that there is a battery inside a sealed unit.
the battery is to keep the clock running on the lower "Rabbit" board when the power goes out. i can't imagine a dead battery causing the behavior you're seeing, it should only ever be used when the power is out to the PA - but you could check it with a multimeter and see if it's over 3volts.

3. Crazy as it sounds, I read another post about a couple people solving problems by turning the protocol adaptor upside down. Any any truth to this? The only thing I could imagine is perhaps improving the connection with the battery if the battery is critical.
i could imagine a situation where flipping it over COULD make it work... but only if it "cured" a loose connection on the ethernet cable and/or rs485 (black/green/yellow/red) line. anything else feels like a stretch

4. If I rule out the protocol adaptor and need a new control board what is correct current model number? I currently have a Compool Easy Touch Upgrade, model 521103. This replaced the original Compool LX3800. It seems like Pentair no longer makes my upgrade model 521103. However, I found another Compool Easy Touch Upgrade model 521107 (without transformer) and 521247 (with transformer kit) and it seems compatible, but a) how do I confirm that it is one of these two, and b) what dictates buying it with or without the transformer?
i don't know what the compool part numbers are but since you do have working communications - albeit intermittent - I doubt the outdoor board is the problem.
your system's communications can of course go in and out intermittently, but the comm port on the board doesn't "work" and then "not work"... if the port - and I'm talking about the physical chip that drives the rs485 bus - on the board is broken, then it's dead and it will never work again. any "intermittent" communications behavior is almost always a problem with the wiring. it can be another device on the system but you'd see an issue whenever the problematic device is powered up and connected - as you did with your old is10 spa-side remote... one caveat being i'm not completely sure if the PA could somehow introduce some intermittent comm issue (you referenced another post regarding it, but that was news to me although I'm not intimately familiar with the unit)

As a test, hook up your devices to your outdoor board with short lengths of "known-good" cable... see if everything works. you likely won't be able to do this with your pump of course, but you can hook up the screenlogic PA and your indoor panel this way.

If you want to try an alternative to the screenlogic, check out the node js Pool Controller on this forum. it's incredible stuff, and runs on a raspberry pi or almost any computer you've got available.

Oh, and if you're re-doing your comm port connections, get your connectors at digikey or mouser... don't pay more than $4 each for them (ignoring shipping). this is the part:
Riacon 4 PIN, Metz Connect, 31007104

 

[SDPoolOwner]

Responses/comments to your questions:
1. What does the yellow/amber light on the protocol adaptor light mean?
these are the link/activity leds for the ethernet connection.

2. I have note yet physically inspected the protocol adaptor per ogdento's post above, but I read elsewhere and noticed in the photo there is a battery inside the unit. What is the battery for and could a dead battery be causing this behavior? I am just surprised that there is a battery inside a sealed unit.
the battery is to keep the clock running on the lower "Rabbit" board when the power goes out. i can't imagine a dead battery causing the behavior you're seeing, it should only ever be used when the power is out to the PA - but you could check it with a multimeter and see if it's over 3volts.

3. Crazy as it sounds, I read another post about a couple people solving problems by turning the protocol adaptor upside down. Any any truth to this? The only thing I could imagine is perhaps improving the connection with the battery if the battery is critical.
i could imagine a situation where flipping it over COULD make it work... but only if it "cured" a loose connection on the ethernet cable and/or rs485 (black/green/yellow/red) line. anything else feels like a stretch

4. If I rule out the protocol adaptor and need a new control board what is correct current model number? I currently have a Compool Easy Touch Upgrade, model 521103. This replaced the original Compool LX3800. It seems like Pentair no longer makes my upgrade model 521103. However, I found another Compool Easy Touch Upgrade model 521107 (without transformer) and 521247 (with transformer kit) and it seems compatible, but a) how do I confirm that it is one of these two, and b) what dictates buying it with or without the transformer?
i don't know what the compool part numbers are but since you do have working communications - albeit intermittent - I doubt the outdoor board is the problem.
your system's communications can of course go in and out intermittently, but the comm port on the board doesn't "work" and then "not work"... if the port - and I'm talking about the physical chip that drives the rs485 bus - on the board is broken, then it's dead and it will never work again. any "intermittent" communications behavior is almost always a problem with the wiring. it can be another device on the system but you'd see an issue whenever the problematic device is powered up and connected - as you did with your old is10 spa-side remote... one caveat being i'm not completely sure if the PA could somehow introduce some intermittent comm issue (you referenced another post regarding it, but that was news to me although I'm not intimately familiar with the unit)

As a test, hook up your devices to your outdoor board with short lengths of "known-good" cable... see if everything works. you likely won't be able to do this with your pump of course, but you can hook up the screenlogic PA and your indoor panel this way.

If you want to try an alternative to the screenlogic, check out the node js Pool Controller on this forum. it's incredible stuff, and runs on a raspberry pi or almost any computer you've got available.

Oh, and if you're re-doing your comm port connections, get your connectors at digikey or mouser... don't pay more than $4 each for them (ignoring shipping). this is the part:
Riacon 4 PIN, Metz Connect, 31007104

ogento,

Thank you for your continued support. The above insight was very helpful and, to rule out any issue with the protocol adaptor, I continued to keep it out of the system and kept testing the system with ONLY the pump attached. Unfortunately, it is still not working consistently. In fact, the MAJORITY of the time now it is not running (meaning no connection to the pump and I need to turn it on/off manually every day. As such, it seems like we are down to the following three possible options:

1. The Easy Touch Upgrade Control Board
2. The cable to/from the pump
3. The pump itself

It would be great to test the cable. Is 350122 the correct part #? If so, I have seen prices range $90-$170. Is this accurate or is there a non Pentair cable option?

If the cable doesn't fix the problem, it it more likely a control board issue or the pump? I understand that the pump has a drive unit. I ask, because replacing each of these components is not inexpensive. I learned that I might be able to get a used pump drive unit, but if this is unlikely the cause, then I would just replace the board first.

As always, thank you and I hope that once this problem is finally solved it will help others diagnose future issues.

 

[ogdento]

that cable part number is correct but the prices are crazy!... i sold a bunch of them on ebay for 25 shipped (don't have any now though)

before buying a cable though, i'd use a multimeter on the continuity/ohms settings and check the two wires (yellow/green) on your existing cable. shut down the system power, disconnect the terminal block from the board and unplug the cable from the pump so you can get your test leads in there.

 

[SDPoolOwner]

All - Thank you for all your previous help on this topic. I wanted to share that I finally fixed the problem. After trying all easy fixes, my only option was to either replace the automation board or pump. Since the pumped worked fine without anything connected to it, I decided to replace the automation board and it WORKED! However, I believe the real issue, which was not evident prior to replacing the board, was that the COM-Port, next to the RS-485 was ALSO corroded. Since the automation panel is close to the ground, I couldn't easily see up into the COM-PORT. Since I had already purchased and installed the new automation board, I have not confirmed this hypotheses, but this should be checked if others have similar issues. Thanks again!

 

[ogdento]

ugh, that happened to my aquarite which used an rj45 jack. definitely won't get a good connection on those.

if you're looking for something to occupy your time, you could try cleaning those pins with some sandpaper and/or a Q-tip with vinegar (i usually flush afterwards with water and/or baking soda and water to neutralize the acid)... if it works you'll have a backup!