New pool/spa bubbles don't come out of jets unless you first blow into the air tube

[goldsmin]

Wondering if anyone has any ideas here. Maybe very unique problem.
Brand new pool spa, 16,000 gal, salt, pebble, 6 jet spa, single 1.5HP Superflow pump, all Pentair equipment.
When switching on the spa, the valves rotate the jets start pushing out water and some air. After some amount of time, 5 - 20 seconds (didn't time it) the heater turns on and the air immediately stops blowing. In order to get bubbles, I need to physically blow into the snorkel like tube sticking up by the pool equipment. Once I blow into the tube a couple of times, the jets will start working with both water and air.
They will continue to work sometimes for a few days, other times for just that one usage. Once the bubbles stop, I have to repeat the blowing into the tube.
The contractor has told me to contact Pentair, that it is covered under warranty. Then they abandoned the job. I'm trying to figure out the best way to solve this mess.

I'm not positive the heater turning on is a direct relationship to have the air stop blowing, but there seems to be a very strong connection to the heater.
I also don't believe this has anything to do with Pentair equipment not working correctly. I believe it is either the way it is plumbed or the equipment selection.

One other question, they were going to originally put in an Inteliflow 3.0 HP pump, but substituted it without my knowledge for this 1.5HP pump. Is that a possible cause of this problem? Is this an appropriate pump for my size pool/spa?

Thank you,

 

[mas985]

Welcome to the forum!

The 1.5 HP Superflo is not a very large pump to be using for spa jets. Would not be my first choice. But is that a single speed pump? All pumps installed in CA should be VS pumps. Did the pool pass inspection that way?

So it is possible that a larger pump could be used but it depends on the current design.

What size pipe did the PB use for the jets?

What size pipe is used on the equipment pad?

How far are the jets from the pump?

What model/make filter do you have?

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[goldsmin]

Added signature, thanks.

Here is what I know now, more to come -
Yes, variable speed. Passed inspection because they originally put a used InteliFlow 3.0HP in, then substituted it for a new 1.5HP Superflow when I told them the pump was obviously used. Unfortunately didn't notice the HP of the new one. County said since it passed final inspection, there is nothing they can do.

I need to verify the size of pipe, but contract shows 2" min for all suction lines.
I'll check on equipment pad.
Jets are probably about 20 - 25' from equipment
Pentair CP420 filter

16K gal, IG Pebble, 1.5HP Superflow VS, Pentair CCP420 Cartridge filter, salt, Heater Pentair 400,000 BTU,
Pentair IntelliCenter control, Hayward Aquanaut 250
Thank you,

 

[1poolman1]

Superflow is a medium-head pump, unfortunately. Six jets, filter, heater, that's a lot for a medium head pump.
Why it works, I don't know, but sometimes just raising the air tube about 12" will allow it to start to pull air. Be sure the pump is running at its highest speed.

 

[JJ_Tex]

Wow, so your builder switched you to another pump that costs roughly half as much as the one you had with the inspection. What type of pump was in your contract?

 

[goldsmin]

Wow, so your builder switched you to another pump that costs roughly half as much as the one you had with the inspection. What type of pump was in your contract?

Unfortunately it only said Variable Speed Pump, I'm sure they intentionally left off the HP and I didn't catch it. We were in the model of a full house renovation as well as adding a new pool and just way too many details to carefully watch over. My bad.

 

[goldsmin]

Have the remaining questions answered -
Looks like most of the pipes are 2" some are 2.5" and one, I'm not sure what it is for looks to be less, maybe 1.5". See attached pictures.

I also just started the spa, without turning on the heater. It still starts to blow, then stops. So, the heater turning on does not look to be part of the problem, just coincidence with timing.
After it didn't start blowing, I went to the snorkel and gave it two good full breaths of air and it started blowing. Again, once it starts, it can be stopped and started for sometimes several days, sometimes only 1 day.

I can try adding an extension to the snorkel. I don't think that should be too difficult an experiment.

Any other ideas?
Thank you,

 

[goldsmin]

Forgot the pics.
The pipe in the middle of 0526, is the one that is less than 2".

 

[JJ_Tex]

It looks like they did not install your blower on that tall pipe that is capped. I have a Jandy Spa Blower on my pipe that looks like that and it works great. I do not think Jandy sells online anymore, but something like this should do the trick. I would also check your contract for a spa blower and see if you already paid for one that your builder "forgot" to install.

Air Supply Silencer Spa Blower 1 HP 120 V 4.9 Amp Hardwire - INYOPools.com

Sap Blower Spa Silencer

www.inyopools.com

 

[goldsmin]

It looks like they did not install your blower on that tall pipe that is capped. I have a Jandy Spa Blower on my pipe that looks like that and it works great. I do not think Jandy sells online anymore, but something like this should do the trick. I would also check your contract for a spa blower and see if you already paid for one that your builder "forgot" to install.

Air Supply Silencer Spa Blower 1 HP 120 V 4.9 Amp Hardwire - INYOPools.com

Sap Blower Spa Silencer

www.inyopools.com

Thank you for the link. There was not any plans to add a blower. They said it would work without one. The strange thing is after giving it a couple of blows of air, it runs fine. I'm afraid if I put a blower on the pipe, the blower will need to be on all the time when using the spa as it won't have free air flow any longer. That results in more noise and wasted energy, so I really don't want to take this approach.
I still think if the larger pump was installed it would work. I assume this snorkel is supposed to work as a venturi. I am ASSUMING that by having more powerful water flowing by, it would create a higher suction that would start the air flowing. Just an assumption at this point, but I'm not going to stop until the PB replaces the pump. Still working all the legal avenues.
Thank you again,

 

[mas985]

A larger pump can result in higher water flow rates which should result in higher air suction which is helpful when clearing the air lines of water that floods in when the pump is off. This is why when you manually clear the line, the air line starts to work on it's own.

Many PBs do not know how to design a spa jet system without a blower (more of a crutch) but it isn't that difficult with a little understanding of how venturis work and what is necessary to make them work properly.