Issue With New Fiberglass Pool & Scaling

[norsehorse]

Hey All - first post here on TFP. Little history on our new pool build.
- Signed contract September 10th, 2021
- Fiberglass pool went in-ground on April 9, 2022
- We are on week 19 at this point since going in ground
- Finally almost finished this week, PB is finishing out grading and some other miscellaneous items

My big concern is this. During the 19 weeks we've sat, the water was never balanced, assuming because the pump and other items weren't hooked up. So it's been sitting and collecting who knows what. At one point we had thousands of tadpoles swimming around in there.

It's finally getting balanced and looking almost like a swimming pool now, but there's tons of white residue which the PB has told us is scale. He's using a product called scale-tec to get it back to normal. The PB is confident it will all go away in the next few weeks. However, I have a few questions I'm hoping the group here could answer.

1. Should I be concerned that scale sitting on the pool this long is going to cause issues with the gel coating? The residue seems to come off with some brushing, but the darker areas are more stubborn.
2. Will the scale sitting on the coating cause problems with the gel coating and the shine?
3. Any steps I should be taking to get out in front of this with the PB or the manufacturer, in case it presents an issue in the future?

Appreciate any insight, just concerned after spending well over six figures on this pool that we might be facing a longer term battle.

 

[norsehorse]

Here's some pictures for reference. I guess I expected to be able to swim in it right when it was done. Perhaps my expectations were wrong, but I'm not sure what the norm is during a pool building process.

 

[Texas Splash]

Welcome to TFP! Normally once a FG pool is set, locked, and backfilled, you balance the water and hop in. Apparently you had some delays with equipment resulting in algae, but the scale issue, if that's what it is, is totally different. Four months is quite fast to be talking about scaling unless you have really hard local water. In my experience, the Scale-Tec products don't do much, but as they always say, "Results may vary".

What we really need to see are a full set of test results either from a TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C test kit. All our advice is based on results from one of those kits. Installers (and pool stores) give some of the worst advice. Once we see those test results, we can discuss the issues you are experiencing with your gelcoat.

Also be sure to bookmark our Pool Care Basics page for great info.

 

[norsehorse]

Thanks Texas, I'll get the water tested and post back here with results in the next couple of days. Amazon says the Taylor K-2006C test kit can be here by Thursday. We owned a pool for 10 years in Arizona and never had a problem. Since moving to Middle TN, there is plenty we are learning, including that we have hard water not unlike where we came from.

In your experience, do most PBs balance the water as its being filled, and keep it balanced until the pool is complete?

 

[blindsquirrel]

I would think that the plumbing and equipment part should be complete prior to being filled. So once full, the water can be filtered and balanced right away.

 

[norsehorse]

I would think that the plumbing and equipment part should be complete prior to being filled. So once full, the water can be filtered and balanced right away.

I would have thought that as well, but that's not how it all happened. They started filling before equipment got there, and installed during the fill process. There were issues with subs, and not being able to get equipment out here on repeated days to backfill the rock in with the pool. So, they'd fill the sides with rock, fill a little water, wait a week, and repeat. By the time it was "done" the equipment was here if I recall correctly, but the process took several weeks.

Most of the delays have come from sub contractors that were unavailable. And while I have concerns about the PB and the entire process, those would be deserving of their own thread. Right now I just want to get the pool clean and get my family swimming.

 

[duraleigh]

I suspect the build up you see is not scale but (almost the same thing) precipitated calcium. The difference is you can wipe or brush the calcium off whereas scale truly imbeds itself into your pool surfaces.

I think your pool surface will turn out fine but I would DOCUMENT your concerns in a letter to him. No need to threaten but just review, on paper, what he has told you verbally. Ask him for a written reply saying that your pool surfaces will suffer no damage. If he doesn't want to do that, then I would escalate your response back to make sure you expect a good outcome.

Most importantly, I would consider withholding some money to incentivize him if he doesn't respond favorably.

 

[norsehorse]

Thank you duraleigh, I will do that. I have it in text messages, but perhaps something in writing will make him feel a bit more pressure to make sure he's treating the situation properly.

 

[gingrbredman]

do most PBs balance the water as its being filled, and keep it balanced until the pool is complete?

A lot of pool builders will say they balance your water, but the real answer is most PBs build the pools, and do not have the proper knowledge to balance the water properly. I have seen just a handful of builders who actually get TFP pool chemistry. I mean, actually get it.

If the fill water is hard, you have high TA and low PH, which could contribute to the issues, those can be fixed after proper testing and a "repair" plan.

Do you have a SWCG by chance?

 

[Texas Splash]

Back in 2013 when my pool was installed, one crew basically did everything form leveling, lock-in, to backfill. They also did the equipment pad and plumbing. Only my concrete was subbed. Based on today's delays and stuff I suppose I was lucky. But once the installer drops it into the hole and locks it in, they have a vested interest to fill it during the "locking" process. No need to test the water as it is filling, only after it's filled.

In your case it sat like a pond. Someone could've suggested dropping a sump pump in there just to move water around with some chlorine to help, but other than algae I don't think it would cause any damage. Your own K-2006 test results will be interesting to see. I would not be surprised to see a high pH at this point, but we'll see. In the meantime, be sure to update your signature and include that test kit. If you are on a well, notorious for iron and some with high calcium, list that as well.

 

[norsehorse]

Do you have a SWCG by chance?

I had to google this acronym, I'm not quite sure if we have a saltwater chorine generator. It's a saltwater pool, so I'm guessing so? The PB said once we have salt in, it's low maintenance.

 

[norsehorse]

Back in 2013 when my pool was installed, one crew basically did everything form leveling, lock-in, to backfill. They also did the equipment pad and plumbing. Only my concrete was subbed. Based on today's delays and stuff I suppose I was lucky. But once the installer drops it into the hole and locks it in, they have a vested interest to fill it during the "locking" process. No need to test the water as it is filling, only after it's filled.

In your case it sat like a pond. Someone could've suggested dropping a sump pump in there just to move water around with some chlorine to help, but other than algae I don't think it would cause any damage. Your own K-2006 test results will be interesting to see. I would not be surprised to see a high pH at this point, but we'll see. In the meantime, be sure to update your signature and include that test kit. If you are on a well, notorious for iron and some with high calcium, list that as well.

Sounds good, will make those adjustments and post back later this week. I have been out there brushing daily as has my wife. The PB is only sending someone about once a week right now and he's here for 30 minutes to add chemicals and bails. He did brush it a bit when he was here yesterday. I have a Dolphin Triton on the way as well, should be here by next week.

And yes, it literally sat there as a pond with who knows what growing inside it. You couldn't even see past the first foot when they started dumping chemicals in it. With the chemicals he's adding now, he does backwash once a week when he's out, adding new water. I'm guessing the idea is to cycle it out. The PB said we should not drain it since it's fiberglass.

 

[Apsuhead]

It’s good that you are getting it straightened out. I really didn’t think about the pool water when my fiberglass pool was installed here in middle TN about 1.5 years ago. Luckily I found this site and everyone had me order a good test kit, robot, and pick up liquid chlorine before the pool was filled. My pool was filled in December and I didn’t even run the equipment until March and my water was always sparkling with the advice from TFP. I have never had scaling with my fiberglass pool but after I got the CH up a little, my waterline stayed a lot cleaner. I usually use a magic eraser every few weeks to clean the waterline and above … it works great. Good luck with your pool, it looks great!

 

[norsehorse]

It’s good that you are getting it straightened out. I really didn’t think about the pool water when my fiberglass pool was installed here in middle TN about 1.5 years ago. Luckily I found this site and everyone had me order a good test kit, robot, and pick up liquid chlorine before the pool was filled. My pool was filled in December and I didn’t even run the equipment until March and my water was always sparkling with the advice from TFP. I have never had scaling with my fiberglass pool but after I got the CH up a little, my waterline stayed a lot cleaner. I usually use a magic eraser every few weeks to clean the waterline and above … it works great. Good luck with your pool, it looks great!

Thank you! We are generally pretty happy with the build. Adding a couple more pictures - we live in Eagleville, so a bit more rural. The quality is good, we just want it done so we can swim before the weather starts to turn in November. The auto cover was a relief - doesn't obstruct our view and it meets local code to count as a fence without being much more expensive.

 

[norsehorse]

Do you have a SWCG by chance?

Just went out and looked, we have a Hayward TurboCell 940, which says it supports up to 40k gallons. It's attached to the electric hayward heater that we had installed next to it.

 

[gingrbredman]

Good looking backyard there! I think in no time, the people around here will help you get that into TFP shape in no time!

The PB is only sending someone about once a week right now and he's here for 30 minutes to add chemicals and bails

This course of action may slow the process of getting that water sparling. Try and make sure you see everything they put in and how much. A "normal" TFP salt water pool will only need probably muriatic acid on a routine bases to adjust the PH (and TA if needed), but any other chemicals can make it difficult to reverse the damage that is done. Those that do not understand water chemistry will add things like scale remover, or algicide, or clarifier, and those may actually be doing worse than good for the pool. Once you have your own test kit and post a full set of results, I am sure the collective minds here will help you get this all straightened out.

While you wait, there are some great resources you can read up on with the basics so you can start to build a real understanding of the TFP ways.

@Texas Splash already linked Pool Care Basics - Trouble Free Pool
There are even some videos that may help. TFP-TV - Trouble Free Pool

Just went out and looked, we have a Hayward TurboCell 940

Even with a new cell, the polarity reverses so many hours, cycles, and can shed flakes off the plates with improperly balanced water. High TA and PH, even CH can lead to build up on the plates which will shed. This is why I asked if you had one, have seen flakes like this in saltwater pools with numbers out of whack. I had them early in my pool days and once I got all my numbers within ranges, the flakes went away.

Once you get your test kit, make sure you also get the PoolMath app. You can customize it to add your details, and when you enter the results there, it will guide you on the proper additions, or removals if needed. If you use the same login credentials as this site, you can also share your logs so others can see them and help quicker.

Make sure you check the "CSI" record button, so the PoolMath app calculates that as well. Pools with SWCG and a CSI out of range can also have white flakes in them. CSI is comprised of 4 things: water temp, pH, TA, and CH, which we keep mentioning are likely out of range in your pool.

 

[norsehorse]

Good looking backyard there! I think in no time, the people around here will help you get that into TFP shape in no time!


This course of action may slow the process of getting that water sparling. Try and make sure you see everything they put in and how much. A "normal" TFP salt water pool will only need probably muriatic acid on a routine bases to adjust the PH (and TA if needed), but any other chemicals can make it difficult to reverse the damage that is done. Those that do not understand water chemistry will add things like scale remover, or algicide, or clarifier, and those may actually be doing worse than good for the pool. Once you have your own test kit and post a full set of results, I am sure the collective minds here will help you get this all straightened out.

While you wait, there are some great resources you can read up on with the basics so you can start to build a real understanding of the TFP ways.

@Texas Splash already linked Pool Care Basics - Trouble Free Pool
There are even some videos that may help. TFP-TV - Trouble Free Pool


Even with a new cell, the polarity reverses so many hours, cycles, and can shed flakes off the plates with improperly balanced water. High TA and PH, even CH can lead to build up on the plates which will shed. This is why I asked if you had one, have seen flakes like this in saltwater pools with numbers out of whack. I had them early in my pool days and once I got all my numbers within ranges, the flakes went away.

Once you get your test kit, make sure you also get the PoolMath app. You can customize it to add your details, and when you enter the results there, it will guide you on the proper additions, or removals if needed. If you use the same login credentials as this site, you can also share your logs so others can see them and help quicker.

Make sure you check the "CSI" record button, so the PoolMath app calculates that as well. Pools with SWCG and a CSI out of range can also have white flakes in them. CSI is comprised of 4 things: water temp, pH, TA, and CH, which we keep mentioning are likely out of range in your pool.

Thank you! Would you recommend I tell them to stop adding scale tec after I get my pool kit and test results in?

 

[gingrbredman]

Thank you! Would you recommend I tell them to stop adding scale tec

I would first ask them what they are adding, and ask them why they are adding each one. I guess my approach would be to try and get an understanding of their logic. If they are doing some kind of testing before they throw stuff in, would be curious to know what they think they see, and why all the stuff.

Really, you do not want anything to be continually added to the pool, unless it is chlorine, until you know the results of the pool water. I wouldn't wait until after you test, I would really want them to stop adding anything at all.

At a minimum, you want to be adding 5ppm worth of chlorine each day. You have a SWCG, that will add the chlorine for now, but how often do you run it during the day? Determining how often the pump runs, the cell itself (which you know), and what percentage you have it set, we will know how much chlorine is being added each day to the water. Everything else is just guessing and throwing guesses at the wall.

 

[norsehorse]

I would first ask them what they are adding, and ask them why they are adding each one. I guess my approach would be to try and get an understanding of their logic. If they are doing some kind of testing before they throw stuff in, would be curious to know what they think they see, and why all the stuff.

Really, you do not want anything to be continually added to the pool, unless it is chlorine, until you know the results of the pool water. I wouldn't wait until after you test, I would really want them to stop adding anything at all.

At a minimum, you want to be adding 5ppm worth of chlorine each day. You have a SWCG, that will add the chlorine for now, but how often do you run it during the day? Determining how often the pump runs, the cell itself (which you know), and what percentage you have it set, we will know how much chlorine is being added each day to the water. Everything else is just guessing and throwing guesses at the wall.

Since my PB isn't really helping in this area, at what point would you say my family would be "safe" to swim in the water? Once I know what my chemical balance looks like? Should I be waiting until all black spots/algae is removed from the pool?

 

[Texas Splash]

at what point would you say my family would be "safe" to swim in the water?

Once you receive your test kit, post a full set of water test results. We'll validate if there are any red flags preventing anyone from being in the water and walk you through a SLAM Process as required.