Just saying hello & hoping to meet other "strange" weirdo DIY people

[godwinson]

Hi there,
Never owned a pool before, but watched a zillion videos on YouTube. Maybe watched most of them by now.

Found out about this place and decided to join to ask questions which haven't been answered yet.
I'll be asking detailed questions after searching to see if other people DIY as much as I plan on doing.

I've read much of the beginner TFPC stuff and I agree with most of it.
If I ask a question, it will likely be one that has never been asked before (unless I didn't do my search correctly).

Just saying hi here though... (as suggested in the welcome message).
I'll put the pool stuff in the sig later when it's needed.

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum!

I suggest you read through Pool Care Basics - Trouble Free Pool and even look at a few of our videos TFP-TV - Trouble Free Pool

 

[Newdude]

Hey Godwinson and Welcome !!!

 

[needsajet]

Welcome to TFP! Good to have you here

I'm not sure if I'm weird, or I do weird DIY stuff. Take your pick, lol.

One of the true experts here recently recommended an inlet grate in the bottom of the skimmer to prevent larger objects from ever getting into the suction line. Makes sense. I've shopped high and low and the cheapest I can get this US$7 item, is to buy 4 and have them shipped from USA to here, working out to around $60 each (choke). So that's my next weird DIY project!

 

[godwinson]

One of the true experts here recently recommended an inlet grate in the bottom of the skimmer to prevent larger objects from ever getting into the suction line.

Woo hoo! You understand me! I understand you! DIY owners unite!
I sure hope I've found DIY friends here to help me (and for me to help them, if/when/where I can).

One by one, I'm going to replace all the crummy expensive plastic with much better inexpensive stainless steel parts.
I'll probably post pictures of all my before and after DIY efforts so that others can help me out better and so that it helps others better.

A picture is worth a thousand words (not that I can't write a thousand words on my own).
For starters, here is a photo of what I've used to supplement the crummy expensive plastic "inlet grate" that is sold by the pool equipment companies.

My wife picked up two sets of those big/small stainless steel mesh filters for less than ten dollars at a kitchen supply store (the spot-welded handles break off easily).

The larger ones fit perfectly above the cheap expensive plastic poolside strainer baskets (and essentially negate their need).

I picked up those brass nuts and bolts so that I can bolt on a handle to use one as a hand skimmer.

The goal here is to augment the expensive cheap plastic with inexpensive stainless steel mesh.
Does anyone else do this?
How can we make this even better in terms of functionality, cost, and durability?

 

[godwinson]

I suggest you read through Pool Care Basics - Trouble Free Pool and even look at a few of our videos TFP-TV - Trouble Free Pool

Thanks for those links as there is no dearth of stuff to read on how to maintain the pool using just CYA powder, HASA 12.5% bleach & HASA 31.45% muriatic acid (my well water is alkaline at 225 ppm with a calcium hardness of 210 & a TDS of 1100 with zero iron, phosphates & copper).

One of my first tasks, of course, since I filled it with well water, was to find CYA powder (or granules) in twenty to fifty pound bulk containers.

Many outfits with fantastic prices at less than $2/pound for bulk CYA granules or powder have discontinued selling it...

Or they're out of stock...


Still other chem labs just never call you back...

Unfortunately I wasted weeks (elapsed time) as WEGO CHEMICAL is apparently almost impossible to talk to if you're just a lowly homeowner; but they sell the cyanuric acid pool conditioner powder (which, of course, I prefer) & granules at about $2/pound shipped & taxed.
If you have a better contact than I do at WEGO CHEMICAL (mine is the product manager but he has only responded once in two weeks of calling him), that would be great for others since the price is right (for 50 pound barrels at ~$2/pound after shipping and taxes).

Then I wasted another week with an outfit in Texas who sells CYA in fifty pound barrels for ~$3/pound, shipped & taxed. At least they took my order as a homeowner, but they eventually told me they didn't have any in stock (and you can't wait all that long for CYA, as you well know).


I also wasted a week or so with another outfit in Florida who didn't have it in stock, but the price wasn't too bad at $3.66 per pound (shipped & taxed).
($183.28 + $44.24 shipping + $11.77 tax = 183.28, which is $3.66/pound)


Then I tried Home Depot which was between ($70.63/21# + ~$6.36 tax = ~$77/21# = ~$3.66/pound) and ($70.63/21# + ~$6.36 tax = ~$77/21# = ~$3.66/pound) taxed and shipped.

I also tried Lowes at ($78.56 + ~$7 tax = ~$86/16# = ~$5.38/pound) but they too were out of stock.

In the end, I'm still waiting for my order at Walmart to arrive, which is the conclusion most of you have come to independently of my research.
($134.89/40# + $12.48 tax + $0 shipping = $147.37 for 3.68/#)

Funnily enough, Walmart is what's suggested in this forum mostly, but man oh man, I'd STILL love to get the CYA powder for $2/pound, taxed & shipped.
BTW, forget Leslies, which is $7.50 per pound for what should be under two dollars a pound.
($54.99/8# + ~$5 tax = ~$60/8 = ~$7.50/pound)

To your point, the kind of pool chemistry answers I'll be looking for is to find out whether anyone here, as a mere homeowner, has ever gotten the fast-dissolving CYA powder for $2/pound at fifty or hundred pound increments?

Another kind of question I'll be seeking is the answer to whether or not lowering alkalinity is even worth the challenge (as "chasing ranges" isn't what I believe in and I don't care one bit about scaling or most of the other "scare tactics" they use on you at the pool stores, like telling me the water will "feel smooth" which, when they get to that point, I know they're just winging it to sell more chemicals).

I'll go broke trying to keep the pH in the ranges that are the normal suggested ones, so I'm going to have to learn what REALLY happens (stuff that can be measured, not how "silky" the water feels!) that I care about when/if the alkalinity keeps the pH in the high 7.8 range most of the time. Lots of homework I need to do, so thanks for those links.

[BTW, I inherited a pool that is too big for me, where, after reading up on it, I think I know what I "need" to do which is add about 10 gallons, slowly of course, over time, of the HASA 31.45% muriatic acid and then somehow, magically I guess, bubble the carbon dioxide out - as there are no water features - but it will just slowly rise over time anyway - so I don't want to be chasing ranges without a better plan that won't break the bank with cases of HCl.]

 

[godwinson]

Hey Godwinson and Welcome !!!

Thanks. I hope to CONTRIBUTE as much as to ask questions, but most of my ideas will be in the areas of common sense DIY projects since my only problem with pool chemistry is getting it stabilized (CYA is on the way), then getting it balanced (well water is alkaline so a lot of HASA 31.45% muriatic acid will be needed) and then maintaining the sanitizer forever (HASA 12.5% bleach). I haven't even started the pool equipment yet, which will be a different set of conundrums.

Right now, I'm mostly looking to figure out how to have decently inexpensive pool equipment that is longer lasting than the cheap expensive stuff at the pool stores.

For example, I gave up on the expensive cheap plastic Y-shaped pool pole butterfly clips in favor of 2-inch long by 1/4 inch diameter stainless steel bolts with 1/4x20 TPI stainless steel wing nuts as shown below.


The advantage is that I'll never need to buy those expensive cheap plastic butterflies (and yes, I'm aware they make metal ones).
The disadvantage is that I'll have to use a bunch of poles because it's easier to just leave things bolted on.

If folks have a better idea than those $1 each stainless steel bolts though, I'm all ears.

 

[needsajet]

The goal here is to augment the expensive cheap plastic with inexpensive stainless steel mesh.
Does anyone else do this?
How can we make this even better in terms of functionality, cost, and durability?

Overall, plastic and concrete are preferred around the pool. Aluminum is worthy as well. For me personally, I could not take any chance of introducing more iron into the water because of iron staining risks.

The grate I'm talking about is at the inlet beneath the skimmer basket, and it's plastic. I recommend staying with plastic as much as possible.
Hayward SP1026GR 1.5" MIP Inlet Fitting Fixed Grate Insert - Gray 610377761895 | eBay

The only place I have stainless is for looks, such as the pool fence. I oil that two or three times a year to protect it. Pool water is salty and therefore you need very good high quality (e.g. marine grade) stainless, and to look after it.

By all means, full power to you, just had to mention fair caution regarding metal corrosion.

 

[godwinson]

Overall, plastic and concrete are preferred around the pool. Aluminum is worthy as well. For me personally, I could not take any chance of introducing more iron into the water because of iron staining risks.

Thank you for that advice, as I bought brass nuts and to bolt on the hand-strainer handles (only because the hardware store didn't have that size in stainless steel); but brass has copper and zinc in it, so following your lead, I assume it's better for me to find a marine grade of stainless steel.

As for materials, whatever materials they use for basic pool equipment - it stinks in my humblest of opinions.

Whatever netting, plastic and/or rubber that stuff is made out of, it doesn't handle the sun and chlorine over time, unfortunately.
[Note I'm also going to search for a supplier of Nitrile versus Buna O-rings for pool equipment.]

The grate I'm talking about is at the inlet beneath the skimmer basket, and it's plastic. I recommend staying with plastic as much as possible.
Hayward SP1026GR 1.5" MIP Inlet Fitting Fixed Grate Insert - Gray 610377761895 | eBay

Thank you for that link which shows an image of a device I haven't seen in the one pool that I'm becoming familiar with.
It seems to be a 1-1/2 inch wide screwed-on cap of some sort.

The only things I can find in the pool shed that might be even remotely similar in a 1-1/2 inch size are these, but I'm not even sure what they're for.

The only place I have stainless is for looks, such as the pool fence. I oil that two or three times a year to protect it. Pool water is salty and therefore you need very good high quality (e.g. marine grade) stainless, and to look after it.

Thank you for that advice to look for marine grade stainless steel. I know there are different types of stainless steel, but I hadn't thought of getting a specific type to keep iron out of the water. Given I'm trying to replace all the cheap expensive plastic I can, it's something I will keep in mind when I choose materials.

By all means, full power to you, just had to mention fair caution regarding metal corrosion.

I appreciate the advice to stick to plastic & aluminum, and then if I must, to choose the best marine grade of stainless steel, but what I rebel against is that the expensive cheap plastic stuff (like these pool vacuums) can't possibly NOT break in long-term use, right?

 

[needsajet]

All the brown on the plastic is mostly iron. I bought some ascorbic acid (vitamin C) from a health food store (about a pound). I put around 1/4 cup in a bucket of water, then dip the plastic pieces in that. It lifts the iron like magic. Discard the spent dipping sauce in the garden, and you've removed a bit of iron. Best not put in the pool because that would be re-introducing the iron, and chlorine gets hammered by vitamin C. Or vice versa, I guess the chlorine is hammering the ascorbic, but getting depleted in the process. The old plastic comes up pretty nice most times, though I suspect the iron isn't damaging the plastic much. The solution is acidic so rinse everything and use gloves if sensitive.

When you see a skimmer basket with a hole through it, and needing replacement, sometimes this is caused when people are slack about cleaning out leaves. The pump generates a lot of suction force, and can pull a hole in the basket, or even just crack it. Sometimes you'll find the damage nearest the outlet at the bottom of the skimmer.

A lot of plastic damage is also caused by leaving items in the sun (scoop, rake, brush, etc.) Having storage places that are a bit shady can be helpful.

I hear ya though. It's nice to have tools that last and feel good in the hands. Most pool stuff is a bit rinky dink.

 

[Dirk]

Pfft, amateurs. Weird? DIY? I don't think you realize who's turf you've stumbled onto, pal. Ask around, they'll tell you who runs this block. Let's see, I'll start you off easy. And maybe we can do some business if you can tell me what this is...



Then, when you're ready, you can try this on for size:



Hey g-son, just messin' with ya. Welcome to TFP, where there's no such thing as a dumb question or a crazy idea. (OK, well I slipped that second part in there, maybe nobody will notice!!)

 

[mgtfp]

Thank you for that advice, as I bought brass nuts and to bolt on the hand-strainer handles (only because the hardware store didn't have that size in stainless steel); but brass has copper and zinc in it, so following your lead, I assume it's better for me to find a marine grade of stainless steel.

You should generally aim to use the same metal for nut and bolt to avoid galvanic corrosion. It can also be a bad idea to use stainless steel nuts/bolts to fasten objects made from more corrosive metals like galvanized steel or aluminium.

There are good reasons for using plastic for pool equipment.

 

[Dirk]

I use nylon. I find nuts, bolts and washers in the "specialty hardware" drawers at Lowes. They sometimes come loose, so I put a little glue on them while tightening. No rust. No galvanic action. Impervious to pool chemicals.

 

[JamesW]

Prototype for the JWST sunshade deployment system?

The anti-bird wire probably won't be needed at L2.

 

[Dirk]

Prototype for the JWST sunshade deployment system?

The anti-bird wire probably won't be needed at L2.

View attachment 440660

Hey, don't give the new guy the answers! I gotta see what he's capable of, then decide if I have to take him out or not. The loony bin is only so big!

 

[godwinson]

Pfft, amateurs. Weird? DIY? I don't think you realize who's turf you've stumbled onto, pal. Ask around, they'll tell you who runs this block. Let's see, I'll start you off easy. And maybe we can do some business if you can tell me what this is...

View attachment 440641

Man... you DIY guys are packing some weird stuff! But... I like it.... um... er.... whatever it is.
What I like about it is what I'd term that it's "built like a brick outhouse", meaning the materials are "the right stuff" for the job and the job is basic and honest.

No fancy stuff here... just get the job done right.

Guessing, upon first inspection anyway... (left to right) strong, sturdy, simple, steel cable, lead (probably aluminum) crimp, steel (probably aluminum lock ring), steel bolts (I might see a nut on top, otherwise they could be screws - but you seem like a bolt kind of guy - for easy removal) and two oversized steel flat washers (stainless maybe, but they don't look like it so you may be in a dry clime), spare block of old 2x4, nicely weathered - probably it has a previous life in a wall or fence - a steel D-ring, and then, um, velcro... hmmm... maybe sewn on flap material... canvas perhaps? On top is slightly tense baling wire which is simply wrapped around at the one end which means it's not holding much force so I suspect it's just a guide to keep the block of wood upright? But maybe not as I'd expect the tilting forces to be toward the left, not from the right - from the stretch of whatever is to the right against the cable tension to the left, so I'm not sure what the upper guide wire is for (it's not a ground wire, is it?... nah, that would be copper and thicker).

At first I thought it was a hammock end, but it wouldn't need to be that sturdy.
But if it was a hammock, man o' man, that's a man-sized hammock!

Given how sturdy it is, and assuming a wind-up mechanism to the left, I'm guessing there's a winch to the left and a pool cover to the right?

 

[Dirk]

Man... you DIY guys are packing some weird stuff! But... I like it.... um... er.... whatever it is.
What I like about it is what I'd term that it's "built like a brick outhouse", meaning the materials are "the right stuff" for the job and the job is basic and honest.

No fancy stuff here... just get the job done right.

Guessing, upon first inspection anyway... (left to right) strong, sturdy, simple, steel cable, lead (probably aluminum) crimp, steel (probably aluminum lock ring), steel bolts (I might see a nut on top, otherwise they could be screws - but you seem like a bolt kind of guy - for easy removal) and two oversized steel flat washers (stainless maybe, but they don't look like it so you may be in a dry clime), spare block of old 2x4, nicely weathered - probably it has a previous life in a wall or fence - a steel D-ring, and then, um, velcro... hmmm... maybe sewn on flap material... canvas perhaps? On top is slightly tense baling wire which is simply wrapped around at the one end which means it's not holding much force so I suspect it's just a guide to keep the block of wood upright? But maybe not as I'd expect the tilting forces to be toward the left, not from the right - from the stretch of whatever is to the right against the cable tension to the left, so I'm not sure what the upper guide wire is for (it's not a ground wire, is it?... nah, that would be copper and thicker).

At first I thought it was a hammock end, but it wouldn't need to be that sturdy.
But if it was a hammock, man o' man, that's a man-sized hammock!

Given how sturdy it is, and assuming a wind-up mechanism to the left, I'm guessing there's a winch to the left and a pool cover to the right?

Thanks for playing, we have some nice consolation prizes for you. Everything metal is SS, except the swag, I think that is aluminum. The block is composite (mostly plastic). My thread is a two-fer, well, three-fer, as it has two more of my many, many other DIY projects towards the end. It'll give you a hint about who you're up against!

Bird [not] on a wire!

I have a shade sail over my pool. Even in perfect TFP water I need to hide from the sun once in a while. But to position it where I wanted it, I needed to run a cable over the water. Now I like me some birds, and have supplied them with literally a million places to hang out (hundreds of feet of...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Lake Placid]

Welcome G - skimmer socks - no corrosion, relatively inexpensive, somewhat reusable depending on your particular flavor of choice, and you can leave the chinois, flour sifter, China cap, etc in the kitchen for baking cakes and straining stocks.

 

[godwinson]

The anti-bird wire probably won't be needed at L2.

Ah. I didn't think of anti-bird wire!

If that's what the baling wire is for, it's genius. The birds can't grasp it because it's too thin... but it's just high enough above the thicker cable that it blocks it.
That's ingeniously simple! (if that's what it is for)

What I love about ingenious simple solution is that they are inexpensive, long lasting, and yet, they work.
Sort of like my home carbonation system made out of a beer-keg tank and some quick connects, valves, and pressure hoses...
( I need a source for those fat-mouthed soda bottles - the dollar store doesn't sell 'em anymo')
(the fat mouth enables ice cubes to be put inside - where gas dissolves better in COLD liquids)


I like it even better when I re-purpose inexpensive but long lasting tools, such as using these MIG-welding gloves for weeding the poison oak.

They exemplify the DIY pool equipment I'm hoping to learn how to source, in that they're already made for another purpose, and they're inexpensive, but, get this... they cost LESS than garden gloves do, and most gardening gloves are too thin or too short - these are perfect!
a. Inexpensive
b. Sturdy
c. Available
and... most important...
d. They do the job well

Around a pool there is no dearth of replacing expensive cheap solutions...

For example, I'm trying to figure out a horsefly solution as we type...

I've already solved houseflies inside the house... with an ingenious solution that's simple and effective - but it won't work around a pool.
You always want to go after their weakness... with your strength... and flies are fast fliers, right?
Well, what's their weakenss?

I read a lot about WWII bombers hating flak when bombing cities, where their weakness was they couldn't avoid a spray of flak where the holes the flak puts into the plane's important parts is the payload, right?

So I made a simple housefly spray that is flak with a payload that clogs up the holes in the side of houseflies.
It works outside and in the house but not at the pool because it's a spray bottle of water with a few drops of dish detergent in it.

The spray is the flak that they can't avoid and the dish detergent is the payload that suffocates the bugs' spiracles (breathing holes).
KISS.

The old Windex bottles, for whatever reason, stop working after a couple of years.
That's why I went for the big bucks, opting for the 2-dollar spray bottles!

The problem though with horseflies is they're not cooped up in a kitchen so they fly further away before you get out the 88's.
And worse, the soapy water isn't likely a good thing for the pool.

I did try 30% acetic acid and bleach, but the horseflies seem impervious to that kind of flak.

Googling, I found out the horseflies don't go for carbon dioxide like mosquitoes do, but for heat.
And, apparently, once they land on a hot object, they never fly down - they always fly up.

The contraptions people build, as a result of knowing thine enemy look like this store bought H-Trap.

What do you use to get rid of horse flies around the pool?

 

[Dirk]

Welcome G - skimmer socks - no corrosion, relatively inexpensive, somewhat reusable depending on your particular flavor of choice, and you can leave the chinois, flour sifter, China cap, etc in the kitchen for baking cakes and straining stocks.

I think his goal was to have a backup under the skimmer basket, so if the basket wasn't in place, something else would be that would prevent anything falling into and clogging up the plumbing. It sounds farfetched, maybe, but we had a long thread trying to help a guy get rocks out of his skimmer pipe. They were jammed in the pipe, just out of reach.