White buildup on SWG plates

May 3, 2014
80
Missouri
Pool Size
22000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
CircuPool SJ-55
We installed a new liner on 6/18. We filled the pool with well water and it was completely full on 6/21. I was adding some liquid chlorine as pool was filling because it was taking 3 days and we had hot sunny temps. (Note) When filling pool, there was rust colored sediment that came from the hoses. I added salt and started balancing water on 6/21. I vacuumed up the rust colored sediment. Started SWG on 6/22 Within a couple of days I had white sediment in bottom of pool and SWG plates were covered with white. My readings on 6/25 were:
FC 4
Ph 7.8
TA 250
CH 210
CYA 50
SALT 3000. (Last year I kept it at 3200)

I added 2 more lbs of stabilizer, vacuumed up sediment and turned off SWG, added 1 Gal chlorine and 1 Gal MA. Water was crystal clear and had CYA up to 60.

I thought the buildup on SWG could be from high TA and rising Ph, so I figured I shut it off until I lowered those numbers.

I’ve been maintaining FC (between 5 and did drop to 2 once, on 6/30) with liquid chlorine and using MA for several days now and aerating the pool to raise the Ph, so I could continue with MA to lower TA. Water has still been crystal clear and have had no white or rust sediment on bottom of pool. Unfortunately, with the jets turned up and the high sun and temps, I’ve had some evaporation and have had to add some well water to the pool which is fighting me trying to lower my TA.

On 6/30 we cleaned the SWG with MA/water solution as per manufacturers instructions. White sediment cleaned right off the plates. I had the TA down to 140 so I decided to try running SWG because I was tired of dumping liquid chlorine in my pool.
This morning, (less than 48 hours later) I have cloudy water, white sediment and some rust colored sediment in the bottom of the pool and white beginning to form on the plates of the SWG again.

This morning’s test readings: (7/2/22)
FC 4
CC 0
Ph 7.4
TA 140
CYA 50 (could see dot at 60, but lost it before it hit 50)
SALT 3000

I now turned off SWG, added 4 Gal chlorine to start slam at 20. It is currently raining, but I will vacuum up white and rust colored sediment later today after rain stops.

Any idea what is going and what else I need to do?
 
In PoolMath, turn Track CSI on and enter all your test results there.

On the CYA test, if the dot disappears between 50 and 60, call it 60. Always round up on the CYA test.
CYA 60 SLAM Process level is 24.

If your SWG is off, you need to use the non-SWG recommendations for FC of the FC/CYA Levels.
The chart is for how you are dosing chlorine, not the type of pool you have.

Since you are sharing your PoolMath logs, test results entered there will show when someone clicks your user icon. After review, others can comment on what the cause of your issue may be.

The FC dropping below minimum for your CYA is probably the cause of the cloudiness - nascent algae bloom.
The scaling of the SWG is probably do to CSI being out of range. With a SWG, a CSI in the 0.00 to - 0.30 (negative 0.30) is best.
 
You can see the plates on that SWCG. Most of the time, the plates do start to get a haze on them and then when the polarity changes, it sheds that, and it is so small that the calcium goes back in to solution with the pool water.

So see if the scale builds up or not. With your currently posted water chemistry, it should not.
 
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In PoolMath, turn Track CSI on and enter all your test results there.

On the CYA test, if the dot disappears between 50 and 60, call it 60. Always round up on the CYA test.
CYA 60 SLAM Process level is 24.

If your SWG is off, you need to use the non-SWG recommendations for FC of the FC/CYA Levels.
The chart is for how you are dosing chlorine, not the type of pool you have.

Since you are sharing your PoolMath logs, test results entered there will show when someone clicks your user icon. After review, others can comment on what the cause of your issue may be.

The FC dropping below minimum for your CYA is probably the cause of the cloudiness - nascent algae bloom.
The scaling of the SWG is probably do to CSI being out of range. With a SWG, a CSI in the 0.00 to - 0.30 (negative 0.30) is best.
Thanks. I don’t always log my additions in pool math. That is something I just started playing with. I will bump up the FC FOR Cya @60.
 
You can see the plates on that SWCG. Most of the time, the plates do start to get a haze on them and then when the polarity changes, it sheds that, and it is so small that the calcium goes back in to solution with the pool water.

So see if the scale builds up or not. With your currently posted water chemistry, it should not.
I will keep watch? But it doesn’t explain the white particles and rusty sediment in the bottom of pool
 
In PoolMath, turn Track CSI on and enter all your test results there.

On the CYA test, if the dot disappears between 50 and 60, call it 60. Always round up on the CYA test.
CYA 60 SLAM Process level is 24.

If your SWG is off, you need to use the non-SWG recommendations for FC of the FC/CYA Levels.
The chart is for how you are dosing chlorine, not the type of pool you have.

Since you are sharing your PoolMath logs, test results entered there will show when someone clicks your user icon. After review, others can comment on what the cause of your issue may be.

The FC dropping below minimum for your CYA is probably the cause of the cloudiness - nascent algae bloom.
The scaling of the SWG is probably do to CSI being out of range. With a SWG, a CSI in the 0.00 to - 0.30 (negative 0.30) is best.
The CSI comes out to -0.23
 
The CSI comes out to -0.23
You still haven't actually logged the results in PoolMath
Under Test Results - enter the date and time, enter all test results, click the check mark to save the test results.
Be sure to enter all the ones listed, including salt and water temp.

A CSI between 0.00 and -0.30 is great and should prevent the SWG from scaling.

As Marty - @mknauss - said, any rust isn't from the SWG.
Does your fill water have iron in it?
What is the source of your fill water - well or city water?
 
Just addend another gallon of chlorine and turned SWG bsck on to watch it. We had a nice rain finally and raised my water level about 1”. Going to vacuum pool now and then recheck the chlorine level after I’m done to see what that gallon brought it up to. Good thing is it’s cloudy today so sun isn’t eating my chlorine.
You still haven't actually logged the results in PoolMath
Under Test Results - enter the date and time, enter all test results, click the check mark to save the test results.
Be sure to enter all the ones listed, including salt and water temp.

A CSI between 0.00 and -0.30 is great and should prevent the SWG from scaling.

As Marty - @mknauss - said, any rust isn't from the SWG.
Does your fill water have iron in it?
What is the source of your fill water - well or city water?
I have saved the results and I can see the logs. I don’t see
You still haven't actually logged the results in PoolMath
Under Test Results - enter the date and time, enter all test results, click the check mark to save the test results.
Be sure to enter all the ones listed, including salt and water temp.

A CSI between 0.00 and -0.30 is great and should prevent the SWG from scaling.

As Marty - @mknauss - said, any rust isn't from the SWG.
Does your fill water have iron in it?
What is the source of your fill water - well or city water?
as stated in original post, it is well water and I could see the rust colored debris as soon as we started filling the pool. Once full, I vacuumed it all up. Had to put hose in pool the other night and didn’t notice the rusty sediment until today. It must have taken a couple of days to settle. Pool was a little cloudy this morning and I’ve been slamming it with chlorine at 24. It now looks clear again. I will do an overnight test to see what’s going on. I’m still going to work on lowering the TA, just not as aggressively as I have been the last 4 days. Pointing the jets up to help aerate, I think was speeding up evaporation. Then adding more well water was counterproductive to what I’ve been trying to achieve. It’s hard getting everything right when we are having 100 degree sunny days.
Our liner guy put us off for two months and then stood us up three times. That is when we decided to install the liner ourselves. I would have much rather done it back in April! But it’s done now and we didn’t spend $1800 for the install.
 

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Well, I’ve got the TA down to 100 and still getting build up on plates and white sandy like substance in pool every couple of days. I’m still working on lowering the TA, it’s just a slow process. Tonight I will clean the plates again with MA/water mix, but will gently scrape some of the white off first and drop MA on it to see if it fizzes. I have never had an issue like this. It’s driving me crazy! My SWG is not producing as much as it should and I’ve been supplementing with liquid chlorine. I ran my numbers last night and CSI was -.22. Pool is crystal clear and passes OCLT an no CC.

Should I let the buildup that I scrape off the plates dry out before doing the MA test on it?

Pic attached. The build up is actually worse than it shows in the pic.
 

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No need to let the scale dry out.
Really be careful using acid to clean the cell repeatedly. It removes some of the rare earth metals.
As far it not generating the same amount, are you sure your FC loss each day is not just higher? Less clouds, less humidity will increase UV impact.
 
Keep your pH at 7.4 - 7.2 and always below 7.6 and drive your TA down.
Test your fill water for TA and CH. I suspect your source water is working against you.
Push your CSI more negative, you can manage your water more aggressive without a plaster surface. Watch you cells Amp draw and calculated salt ppm over time for clues on scale accumulation on your cell plates.
 
Do you think I should just gently scrape it off? The SWG came with wooden sticks (look like popsickle sticks). The SWG is on its 4th year and has only been cleaned with MA twice. It has never gotten this kind of build up before this year.

I guess it’s really a difficult time to be trying to balance new water in a pool. We have had many upper 90 and over 100° days and very little relief. Our liner guy put us off for two months and then kept saying he was coming and wouldn’t show up. We finally did the liner ourselves on a weekend that was a little cooler (only 90°ish, lol)

So, I know the weather is part of it, but not sure if it’s all of it.

I will test the white stuff tonight and continue to bring down the TA.

I’m not even running the SWG today because it’s just going to pump white sediment into the pool again. I’ll turn it back on tonight after it’s cleaned off.
 
Keep your pH at 7.4 - 7.2 and always below 7.6 and drive your TA down.
Test your fill water for TA and CH. I suspect your source water is working against you.
Push your CSI more negative, you can manage your water more aggressive without a plaster surface. Watch you cells Amp draw and calculated salt ppm over time for clues on scale accumulation on your cell plates.
I agree, it is my source water that is working against me. I’ve been letting the pH drift up to 7.8 and then using larger doses of MA to try brining the TA down at a quicker rate. I understand what you’re saying about keeping the Ph in check, so I guess I will try that and use smaller doses of MA more often and see if the scale stays away. This ridiculous weather has me topping off the pool more often which is sabotaging my efforts. Uggh!
My cell doesn’t provide any info on amp draw or salt readings. I use a test kit to check my salt level which is at 3200. My CH is at 210, which doesn’t seem high to me. My TA began at 250, so I’ve gotten it down quite a bit. I will continue my efforts.

I’m very curious to see if the white residue fizzes when I get home tonight.

Do you think I should clean the plates with MA or just try using the wooden sticks to gently scrape the sediment off? Like I said before, we’ve only cleaned the plates twice with MA since we went with a SWG in the middle of 2018 summer. SWG is getting older, but our pool is only open from late April to early November (and the SWG is only in use from about May - early October when water temp is high enough and normally run it about 12 hours a day at 50 or 75%)
 
I suspect you are using more fill water this year as you have not had the same amount of a rain.

You can use acid to clean if you want. We recommend no more than 1 part MA to 10 parts water. Or use Cleaning Vinegar (6%).
 
Do you think I should clean the plates with MA or just try using the wooden sticks to gently scrape the sediment off?
Each time you use MA to clean the cell, you take away a bit of the rare metals that generate chlorine. I had the same style cell. I never needed to clean it with MA. The sticks and high pressure water should remove all the scale.

1657649359556.png
 
The key from my experience is keeping the pool water aggressive enough (negative CSI) so that the scale deposit is soft enough to not accumulate on the plates. The reversed polarity feature of the cell will sluff off the soft buildup on the plates but the harder scale will not and eventually results in a low Amp (false low salt) shut down. I clean without acid and only use long zip ties and a water jet. My cell has many plates very close together so its tedious but only takes 45 minutes total. Frequent fill water high in TA requires a close eye on pH and TA. Filling your pool mid summer with high TA source water is your issue. Once your pool TA is down to 50-60 ppm you can counter the fill water additions by anticipating acid demand at peak evaporation months and minimize the cell maintenance needed.
 
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That's exactly what those wooden sticks are for. No need to use muriatic acid. Rinse with high-pressure water, then use the stick to break free the calcium and continue to rinse. It should come clean.
Ok, that’s what I will do and then test the stuff that breaks off to see if it fizzes. Thanks
Each time you use MA to clean the cell, you take away a bit of the rare metals that generate chlorine. I had the same style cell. I never needed to clean it with MA. The sticks and high pressure water should remove all the scale.

View attachment 435026
thanks. The biggest part of the build up is on the ends where it connects to the cap and not the plates.
 

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