So 4 year old pool. 10,500 gallons. Have always noticed small white flakes that i assume are from the cell. Pool is kept balanced weekly but in the past I have done acid once a week to correct the high PH which obviously wasn't the right way to do it. We had to partially drain for TDS late winter this year and got everything re-balanced pretty quickly and have been adding smaller amounts of acid as testing requires throughout week to keep at 7.4 ish. TA is kept around 80 and chlorine around 3. Even with balanced water and monthly cell cleanings I still have ALOT of small white flakes floating around. I have upped my pump runtime to almost 10 hours and am about 5 days in doing that but haven't noticed any decrease. I don't see the discharge at pump startup like in the past either. I clean the cartridge every few months as well. Filter pressure is around 10-14 psi depending on pump RPM. Anything I'm missing?
Small white flakes always
- Thread starter Uhhello
- Start date
- Apr 10, 2018
- 6,327
- Pool Size
- 18375
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Welcome to TFP!
How are you testing your water? TFP recommends Taylor-based test kits (Test Kits Compared). If you have a recommended test kit, post a full set of results.
Municipal water in AZ generally has high levels of calcium. Does your home have a water softener?
Take a few minutes to create your signature so we can better assist you.
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You're on the right track. The calcium flakes are a sign that there's a chemical imbalance in your pool. This imbalance is caused by the relationship between the calcium level, total alkalinity, pH, and water temp. We can help you fix it, but we need accurate test results to assess.
How are you testing your water? TFP recommends Taylor-based test kits (Test Kits Compared). If you have a recommended test kit, post a full set of results.
Municipal water in AZ generally has high levels of calcium. Does your home have a water softener?
Take a few minutes to create your signature so we can better assist you.
Pool Care Basics Archives
Your one-stop shop for all things TFP to include: ABCs of Water Chemistry, Recommended Chemicals/Levels, Test Kits, Troubleshooting, and much more!
www.troublefreepool.com
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I kit test weekly with taylor kit and then about every couple weeks take it into local pool company to get CYA and the solids/salt. I can't find the latest test but calcium wasn't super high.Welcome to TFP!
You're on the right track. The calcium flakes are a sign that there's a chemical imbalance in your pool. This imbalance is caused by the relationship between the calcium level, total alkalinity, pH, and water temp. We can help you fix it, but we need accurate test results to assess.
How are you testing your water? TFP recommends Taylor-based test kits (Test Kits Compared). If you have a recommended test kit, post a full set of results.
Municipal water in AZ generally has high levels of calcium. Does your home have a water softener?
Take a few minutes to create your signature so we can better assist you.
Pool Care Basics Archives
Your one-stop shop for all things TFP to include: ABCs of Water Chemistry, Recommended Chemicals/Levels, Test Kits, Troubleshooting, and much more!
Water temp is very warm at around 90 degrees currently. Solar cover is on day and night but this week I'll be leaving it off at night to cool her off.
Todays test was in my initial post. 7.4 ph, 80 TA, and 3 FC (0 CC), 35 CYA
We have a water softener/treatment system that they said they hooked up to the pool but I have no way to confirm I don't think.
- Apr 10, 2018
- 6,327
- Pool Size
- 18375
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
We're off to a good start...
There's no shortcut to having a quality test kit and reliable test results.
Which kit do you have. For Taylor kits, TFP recommends the K-2006C. The TF-100 is the best value for the residential pool owner.
Pool store testing is unreliable...you need your own test kit for many reasons. The CH (calcium hardness) test is most important.
High water temps will contribute to calcium flakes from the SWG. We can fix it by making some adjustments or exchange water.
We need to test your fill water source for CH and TA.
There's no shortcut to having a quality test kit and reliable test results.
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It's in my signature as requested. K-2005
So just pull water from my fill "bucket" and test it? How did I not think of that
. Thanks.So just pulled a new test.
625 CH in pool and 175 CH/100 TA in fill bucket. Pool was 50% drained in March using one hose from the filtered water and one hose from what I believe is not connected to filter system.
7.4 PH
80 TA
40 CYA
625 CH in pool and 175 CH/100 TA in fill bucket. Pool was 50% drained in March using one hose from the filtered water and one hose from what I believe is not connected to filter system.
7.4 PH
80 TA
40 CYA
- Apr 10, 2018
- 6,327
- Pool Size
- 18375
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Pool CH is high as is your fill water @175. If you're able to connect your fill line to softened water, you might not need to drain again.
That aside, it looks like you may have to exchange water to lower CH. Here are Recommended Levels for a plaster SWG pool:
The easiest solution with best outcome is to get CH down to 250. That would require almost a full water exchange. If you continue to top off with current fill water, you'd might get through a couple of seasons before needing another water exchange. You might know this, but CH does not leave the pool with evaporation. As you top off with fill water, more CH is added until the chemistry becomes unmanageable.
Read up on Calcium Saturation Index. In simple terms, Positive CSI water wants to leave calcium behind where Negative CSI want to absorb it. To avoid calcium flakes and scale, you need to maintain CSI in the negative range between -0.30 and 0.0. With your current numbers, your CSI is +.16. Aside from lowering CH, CSI can be managed by adjusting pH and TA. But you'd have to maintain pH at 7.2 and lower TA to 70 to maintain a negative CSI. Those targets will drop as CH continues to climb and you may still see flakes due to elevated CH. Higher water temps increase CSI.
Download and familiarize yourself with PoolMath. You can enter different values to see how changes effect CSI. I like the old web version (OldPoolMath) when messing around with different values.
I know it's a lot to take in, but high CH levels are a common problem in the SW. I recently exchanged 2/3rds of my water to drop CH due to SWG flakes/scale.
Long story short: exchange water, connect to softened water, and/or manage CSI.
That aside, it looks like you may have to exchange water to lower CH. Here are Recommended Levels for a plaster SWG pool:
The easiest solution with best outcome is to get CH down to 250. That would require almost a full water exchange. If you continue to top off with current fill water, you'd might get through a couple of seasons before needing another water exchange. You might know this, but CH does not leave the pool with evaporation. As you top off with fill water, more CH is added until the chemistry becomes unmanageable.
Read up on Calcium Saturation Index. In simple terms, Positive CSI water wants to leave calcium behind where Negative CSI want to absorb it. To avoid calcium flakes and scale, you need to maintain CSI in the negative range between -0.30 and 0.0. With your current numbers, your CSI is +.16. Aside from lowering CH, CSI can be managed by adjusting pH and TA. But you'd have to maintain pH at 7.2 and lower TA to 70 to maintain a negative CSI. Those targets will drop as CH continues to climb and you may still see flakes due to elevated CH. Higher water temps increase CSI.
Download and familiarize yourself with PoolMath. You can enter different values to see how changes effect CSI. I like the old web version (OldPoolMath) when messing around with different values.
I know it's a lot to take in, but high CH levels are a common problem in the SW. I recently exchanged 2/3rds of my water to drop CH due to SWG flakes/scale.
Long story short: exchange water, connect to softened water, and/or manage CSI.
Dang. I just exchanged 1/2 the water a couple months ago. 2 months too late to this forum. If the full water is only 175 it shouldn’t go much higher than it is now though right? I will test out interior water tonight when I get home. The pool builders said they connected full to water system but who knows. I’ll maintain the ph and ta as you recommend for now and will probably exchange next season. On the plus side I can stop going to get my water tested at the store as their advice sucks apparently.
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- Apr 10, 2018
- 6,327
- Pool Size
- 18375
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Softened water is your savior. @proavia lives in Tucson, and he reports CH levels of greater than 250. Maybe you aren't getting softened water at the fill, or your softener is not working correctly. Definitely check inside at source you know is softened.
You can drop your ta as low as 50. But, that will be a challenge considering your fill water as a TA of 100. If you have a good source of aeration like a waterfall or Spa spillover, use it frequently. You will burn through a lot of acid to bring PH down, but it's the only way to force TA lower.
Another strategy is to add 50 PPM of borate. You want to do this after you get your ta into the lower range. Borates will help to reduce scaling within the cell. However, if you plan to drain, you'll be flushing your investment down the sewer.
Keep us posted on how it's going.
You can drop your ta as low as 50. But, that will be a challenge considering your fill water as a TA of 100. If you have a good source of aeration like a waterfall or Spa spillover, use it frequently. You will burn through a lot of acid to bring PH down, but it's the only way to force TA lower.
Another strategy is to add 50 PPM of borate. You want to do this after you get your ta into the lower range. Borates will help to reduce scaling within the cell. However, if you plan to drain, you'll be flushing your investment down the sewer.
Keep us posted on how it's going.
I'm an idiot. Got excited last night and didn't engage my brain. The water filter/softner is filling the pool. Confirmed it this afternoon. That water tested at 15 CH inside. I don't know how I would test the water filling unless I drain the fill bucket I guess. I guess it won't matter though until I completely drain. I have to go test one of the faucets I used but I'm guessing with only draining half, and then using two hoses to faucets (only one softened) to fill that it wasn't enough to lower it much.
- Apr 10, 2018
- 6,327
- Pool Size
- 18375
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Are you sure? That's good! How did you get a result of 15? The 10 mL sample has a 25 ppm multiplier and the 25 mL sample a 10 ppm multiplier. We need to make sure you're getting accurate results.
Test the TA of your water inside. The softener has no effect on TA.
Unless you have accurate test results from that exchange.
If your fill water is truly low, you might be able to get by with a minimal water exchange.
Rattus Suffocatus
Silver Supporter
- Jun 5, 2019
- 1,713
- Pool Size
- 14000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool Universal40
The water here sucks. I guess I shouldn't be ashamed to say that I have calcium flakes from the SWCG also. If you are like me and don't have a heater core to worry about, you can try to keep the pool a little acidic and that helps a lot (probably in theory messes with the plaster, but nothing is perfect), but for me, trying to run through the water softener would either require me putting in one specifically for the pool or for me to rip out walls to replumb the house. Ain't gonna happen. My CH isn't that high either, though I bet this year I'll need to consider an exchange.
One thing I have noticed about Tucson water is even when it tests okay from the TFP kit, a TDS meter shows like 450+ PPM of something/everything. I am into coffee snobbery, and to not ruin (or at least require boiler disassembly) the $400 and $1500 machines, I HAVE to cut the SOFTENED (ion exchanged to salt, mind you) water down to about 125-150 PPM on the TDS meter. Even the softened water will scale up the machines. Less than that tends to corrode them. Picky little buggers they are. Or terrible as the water really is here...
If you figure out how to completely fix the issue, please let me know. I've been pretty lax on the pool care for the last several months (which I will pay for, I know), but even when I was chasing my tail 3x a week on it, I still had flakes. Having said that, I am way past the cell light saying "service" (timed light) this time and it's still doing okay based on what the controller thinks the salt level is at. If it starts declining it's scaled up. So hopefully I am not taking that much life out of the cell.
I suspect, and one of the chem guys here might be able to confirm or dispute that removing the non-soluble flakes is taking CH out of the water, is it not?
I have a second house now near Sierra Vista and the WELL WATER there has a TDS reading 4x -- yes 4x!-- lower-- I should pool test kit it too, but I haven't. Tucson water is just bad. Phoenix is worse....
One thing I have noticed about Tucson water is even when it tests okay from the TFP kit, a TDS meter shows like 450+ PPM of something/everything. I am into coffee snobbery, and to not ruin (or at least require boiler disassembly) the $400 and $1500 machines, I HAVE to cut the SOFTENED (ion exchanged to salt, mind you) water down to about 125-150 PPM on the TDS meter. Even the softened water will scale up the machines. Less than that tends to corrode them. Picky little buggers they are. Or terrible as the water really is here...
If you figure out how to completely fix the issue, please let me know. I've been pretty lax on the pool care for the last several months (which I will pay for, I know), but even when I was chasing my tail 3x a week on it, I still had flakes. Having said that, I am way past the cell light saying "service" (timed light) this time and it's still doing okay based on what the controller thinks the salt level is at. If it starts declining it's scaled up. So hopefully I am not taking that much life out of the cell.
I suspect, and one of the chem guys here might be able to confirm or dispute that removing the non-soluble flakes is taking CH out of the water, is it not?
I have a second house now near Sierra Vista and the WELL WATER there has a TDS reading 4x -- yes 4x!-- lower-- I should pool test kit it too, but I haven't. Tucson water is just bad. Phoenix is worse....
Hah, thanks for dealing with me. So not so sure anymore. Maybe someone can sort this out. Pool fill line is the PVC with tape on it. Its T'd into what looks like the line from the main TO the filter/softner or maybe that is the line going to the front supposedly softened faucet they put in? I gotta find the manual (Following the arrows, it appears the pool fill is T'd into the main line from street going to system so its not filled from softened side). All Faucets and indoor tap tested at 110 TA.
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This is more of a education thing for me as I'm learning a lot. The flakes are just a minor visual annoyance with the pool light on at night. The cell is going on 4 years now and I maintain/clean it frequently so it's still working fine....
- Apr 10, 2018
- 6,327
- Pool Size
- 18375
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
I have that same Culligan system, but it's been down for a few years. I took a peak at it. There are arrows on the top of the valves that indicate flow. Far Right connection is in (muni water), far left is out (softened) after passing through both cylinders.
Is this this the tee that connects to the fill line?
If so, that's unsoftened. But, great news, the other line is softened. Can you handle making the connection?
Is this this the tee that connects to the fill line?
If so, that's unsoftened. But, great news, the other line is softened. Can you handle making the connection?
This seems high for softened water, but I'm not sure how much calcium these systems are supposed to remove. Maybe @JoyfulNoise can comment on the softened water CH level.
I understand. You do want to manage CH through CSI to avoid scale on the pebble surface and waterline.
Yup and I agree. Confirmation of the previous erroneous confirmation
I can handle the connection going forward.Yeah I got a weird feeling that that system isn't functioning correctly but don't know for sure. More to come.
I got it on the management. This war has only just begun....
One more thing, pool store sells me this stain/scale inhibitor. I'm guessing its complete ******** now and I can skip it
- Apr 10, 2018
- 6,327
- Pool Size
- 18375
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Return it and buy some unicorn beer floats.One more thing, pool store sells me this stain/scale inhibitor. I'm guessing its complete ******** now and I can skip it
CH turned instantly at 2 drops so softener appears to be working.
We have the tiniest bit softer water out here in Vail but its still crazy. Best investment I ever made was the water system.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,702
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Mine is a salt-based ion exchange resin system from WaterTec. Not sure what the Culligan systems use.
Softeners reduce CH only, they do not affect TA.
Softeners reduce CH only, they do not affect TA.