Suction side air leak

[PoolStored]

Probably installed incorrectly.

A properly installed seal can run for quite a while without water with no problems.

I would take a $1000 bet it is installed correctly. Ceramic installed in shroud and shaft seal on top, in this order. I think if there was water in there, or the shaft seal was not new, I would not have smelled it. It seems to be working/pumping fine...and is a bit quieter than before.

 

[JamesW]

If you got a definite burning smell, something is wrong.

 

[PoolStored]

OK, I'll tear it apart and check it...

 

[1poolman1]

OK, I'll tear it apart and check it...

If you were to fill the pump with water, block the outlet and run it, the friction of a pump seal will boil water. Imagine the heat if there was no water. The bellows portion of a standard seal like in your picture is usually made of buna rubber, that has a rating of about 225 degrees. Your picture is the correct way to install. Seals are cheap, your labor only costs your time, and motors are expensive. Safest practice is to replace it.

 

[JamesW]

If you were to fill the pump with water, block the outlet and run it, the friction of a pump seal will boil water.

The friction between the seal face (primary ring) and the ceramic is not what creates the heat.

Virtually all of the heat is due to the energy imparted by the impeller churning the water.

Some of the heat comes from the motor transferring heat to the water.

 

[JamesW]

The molded plastic primary ring is the lowest quality and it should not fail for at least 10 minutes when running dry.

The carbon primary ring should go for at least an hour running dry and I know of cases where it ran for days dry with no damage.

The silicon carbide should be able to run almost indefinitely without damage running dry.

If you get an immediate burning smell, the seal is almost definitely backwards.

 

[PoolStored]

Was installed correctly. No damage. I think it is fine.



Face of the ceramic.


Carbon ring is mint.


As I installed it.



Last photo is the rubber. Mint.

I can figure it out. I'm assuming that the smell, while brief, was the initial seating/break-in of the ceramic face.

In either case, I will no longer start the pump dry. Simple enough to plug the skimmers, fill the lines & basket, cover, close valves, remove plugs, start pump and open valves at same time.

 

[PoolStored]

Forgot to say, this was the PS-3867 Ozone/Salt version.

 

[JamesW]

The ceramic should be white.

This is way too dark and indicates a problem.

I think that it was backwards.

There is no break-in period and virtually zero friction.

 

[JamesW]

How silly of me to think that all the damaged Polaris and Pentair booster-pump impellers, brackets, and Max-E-Glass 2 sealplates that ran dry and were melted in the seal area were damaged by heat generated by friction. It was, obviously, caused by non-existent boiling water that was able to target just the seal cups.

The molded plastic primary ring is the lowest quality and it should not fail for at least 10 minutes when running dry.

As I noted, the plastic ring can have issues after running dry for more than about 10 minutes, but it should not immediately get hot enough to create a burning smell.

After about 10 minutes, the temperature might get hot enough that the plastic might begin to melt and the friction would further increase.

In any case, the seal used in this case was the carbon primary ring which should be good for much longer.

The black ceramic and burning smell indicate that the seal was almost definitely backwards.

 

[PoolStored]

I think that it was backwards.

You can't put it in the other way. The rubber on the back sits proud of the ceramic and provides significant resistance to the carbon ring. THAT would have burnt up the rubber. Installed exactly per instructions at 5:55.

 

[1poolman1]

He meant that the bellows could have been installed backwards. I've seen it and it happens more often than you would think if one doesn't do this repair regularly (and sometimes even then, mistakes happen). Safest option, since you have it apart is to use a new one. If you were close, I would give you one, they are cheap insurance.

 

[JamesW]

Installed exactly per instructions at 5:55.

I think that this part was backwards (red arrow) (Time 7:00 to 7:30).

 

[1poolman1]

I think that this part was backwards (red arrow) (Time 7:00 to 7:30).

View attachment 407106

That would do it. Easy mistake, especially when we are used to seeing gaskets and O rings seal and don't realize it is the polished face of the bellows that does it.

 

[JamesW]

Forgot to say, this was the PS-3867 Ozone/Salt version.

The PS-3867 has interlocking teeth like the below picture, which does not look like what you show.

Also, note the rubber end is different.

The seal that you have is the PS-200.

 

[PoolStored]

I did not install that part backward. The rubber on the front of the seal has a rubber center. That goes over the end of the shaft and the impeller seals to it. It was installed correctly.

Not sure on the PS-3867, came in kit 356197 "Seal Set SuperFlo/supermax & VS pumps. Chemical/Salt/Ozone EPDM & SS Seal" Pentair packaging. That had me assuming it was the PS-3867.

Either way it is running quietly. When the second PS-3867 comes, I will replace it and try again...

 

[JamesW]

PS-200.

PS-3867 Below.

 

[JamesW]

The ceramic is not going to turn black like that with the seal correctly installed.

It is also not going to give a burning smell.

 

[1poolman1]

I did not install that part backward. The rubber on the front of the seal has a rubber center. That goes over the end of the shaft and the impeller seals to it. It was installed correctly.

Not sure on the PS-3867, came in kit 356197 "Seal Set SuperFlo/supermax & VS pumps. Chemical/Salt/Ozone EPDM & SS Seal" Pentair packaging. That had me assuming it was the PS-3867.

Either way it is running quietly. When the second PS-3867 comes, I will replace it and try again...

Since it wasn't installed backwards, I would just watch it. At the first sign of a leak replace it so as to prevent more motor damage. There is already some as the seal was leaking before and you can see the damage to the motor shaft. The front bearing likely had some water in it as well. Nothing to be done about that now.

 

[PoolStored]

Since it wasn't installed backwards, I would just watch it. At the first sign of a leak replace it so as to prevent more motor damage. There is already some as the seal was leaking before and you can see the damage to the motor shaft. The front bearing likely had some water in it as well. Nothing to be done about that now.

Yep. When the REAL PS-3867 gets here, I will just swap it.