Heat Pump not requiring a GFCI breaker - why?

[gdo]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking into adding a heat pump (~100kBTU, ~5 kW) to my pool to extend swimming season. My PV array overproduces a lot, so I have no concerns about energy costs.

From my internet research, it appears that GFCI breakers aren't required by NEC code for a 230V Heat Pump such as the Raypak R5450ti. Did I read this right?
Is there no concern about possibly energizing the pool water running through the Heat Pump should a (hardware?) problem occur?

I understand that I can still add a GFCI breaker if I want to, but I'd like to understand if that buys any safety at all.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Newdude]

Lifted from pool school :

Heat pumps do not require a GFCI. Heat pumps fall under NEC 680.45 as a "circulation heater" which requires a GFCI when supplied by a brach circuit of 150 volts or less. Any pool Heat Pump that runs on 240 volts then does not require a GFCI.

Note that while a GFCI breaker is not required by the NEC for use with a heat pump some local codes may require it.

 

[ajw22]

Heat pump design separates the water flow from all of the high voltage wiring in ways that gas heaters do not.

 

[Jimrahbe]

GDO,

I would assume because the water never comes in contact with anything that has electricity in it. The water passes through a heat exchanger, while the electricity is only on the Freon side.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Newdude]

*also, I don't see how it would hurt if it made you feel better. You could add a GFCI in your living room if you wanted to, even though there is no need like the kitchen and bathroom with water nearby.

 

[gdo]

Lifted from pool school :

Heat pumps do not require a GFCI. Heat pumps fall under NEC 680.45 as a "circulation heater" which requires a GFCI when supplied by a brach circuit of 150 volts or less. Any pool Heat Pump that runs on 240 volts then does not require a GFCI.

Note that while a GFCI breaker is not required by the NEC for use with a heat pump some local codes may require it.

Yup that's one of the pages I read. Super informative.

Heat pump design separates the water flow from all of the high voltage wiring in ways that gas heaters do not.

That part sounds counter-intuitive to me: I didn't think a gas heater would need high voltage wiring. Just low voltage to do (a) control/signaling and (b) enough to create a spark (like a few AAA batteries in BBQs do).
Now if it were a resistive (electric) heater, I'd understand the concern.

GDO,

I would assume because the water never comes in contact with anything that has electricity in it. The water passes through a heat exchanger, while the electricity is only on the Freon side.

Thanks,

Jim R.

That's been my assumption too. The electrified part is what powers the compressor, which can be away from where water is supposed to be, or insulated from it. But then again, things rust, leaks can happen... perhaps too unlikely to worry about.

*also, I don't see how it would hurt if it made you feel better. You could add a GFCI in your living room if you wanted to, even though there is no need like the kitchen and bathroom with water nearby.

Good point! I've been thinking about doing that. The downside, apparently, is that GFCI breakers can be a little finicky and trip even when things are normal. Maybe I'll give it a shot.

Thanks everyone!

 

[ajw22]

That part sounds counter-intuitive to me: I didn't think a gas heater would need high voltage wiring. Just low voltage to do (a) control/signaling and (b) enough to create a spark (like a few AAA batteries in BBQs do).
Now if it were a resistive (electric) heater, I'd understand the concern.

You don't understand that most small form factor gas pool heaters are induced draft using 120V/240V blower motors and have the high voltage wiring running close to the heat. And with the flames and heat there is a risk of insulation melting and shorting within the box. You don't have that type of heat and risk in a HP.

Pentair MasterTemp Heaters - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[1poolman1]

For safety, any time you have a metal cabinet that has both water and electricity going into it and is outdoors in a pool environment a GFCI is a wise thing to have. The cabinet has to be bonded as well. Even Max-E-Therm and MasterTemp heaters with their all plastic enclosures have a bonding lug.

 

[gdo]

You don't understand that most small form factor gas pool heaters are induced draft using 120V/240V blower motors and have the high voltage wiring running close to the heat. And with the flames and heat there is a risk of insulation melting and shorting within the box. You don't have that type of heat and risk in a HP.

Pentair MasterTemp Heaters - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Aha! That's what I was missing indeed!

It makes sense now. I should have guessed it, because when I heat my spa with the gas heater, I do feel the hot draft coming out of the "exhaust pipe"... that's got to be generated somewhere, and not by burning gas!

Thank you for the explanation!

 

[Lineman7]

Just installed a HP 2 weeks ago. I did not know this and assumed it needed a GFCI. Mine has a 60amp GFCI looking at it.