Waterfall woes

[mknauss]

All one issue.

Can you explain what you are calling a 'choke' valve. Typically chokes are not used in pool plumbing.

 

[crusemm]

I think he means "Check-Valve"

 

[mknauss]

I think he means "Check-Valve"

I think so too -- but wanted to confirm!

 

[Rodex]

I think so too -- but wanted to confirm!

Sorry, sorry. Work blending into pool life

Check valve, yes.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Rod,

I assume the waterfall pump has been disconnected for now.

There is no need for a "Check Valve" in either line. Just take the guts out and see what you suction looks like..

Show us some pics of your current configuration...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Rodex]

Rod,

I assume the waterfall pump has been disconnected for now.

There is no need for a "Check Valve" in either line. Just take the guts out and see what you suction looks like..

Show us some pics of your current configuration...

Thanks,

Jim R.

Yes it is disconnected. I put together a manual valve and glued it all up to attach it all back together….and the “1-1/2”” pipe is not binding to my 1-1/2” coupler. I would bet they used DWV instead of Sch 40. It’s way too loose.

I think we will just rip everything out and start over.

What is the ideal configuration - manual valves at the inlet or nothing at all in the way?

Also, since I’m going to redo all the PVC, I was hoping to add an ORP sensor to monitor pH - would this be best at the inlet to the pump?

 

[Rodex]

Rod,

I assume the waterfall pump has been disconnected for now.

There is no need for a "Check Valve" in either line. Just take the guts out and see what you suction looks like..

Show us some pics of your current configuration...

Thanks,

Jim R.

Here you go!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Rod,

Ok, I am confused. (Nothing odd about that..)

It appears you still have the Skimmer and Main drain connected to your main pump. So where does the waterfall pump now get its water?

Jim R.

 

[Rodex]

Rod,

Ok, I am confused. (Nothing odd about that..)

It appears you still have the Skimmer and Main drain connected to your main pump. So where does the waterfall pump now get its water?

Jim R.

Nothing has changed yet - it is still how it was originally plumbed (I’m out of town, so I can’t work on it this weekend). The waterfall pump is still connected via check valve to the main drain.

I imagine that the waterfall will ideally be plumbed direct to the main drain with no check valve? And the skimmer direct to the main pump, also with no check valve? And no manual valves in either line?

 

[Rodex]

Okay, finally got back in town and revisiting this. Here are images of what I’m going to do - red is the skimmer line to the main pump and blue is the main drain to the waterfall pump.

I’m crossing my fingers the incoming air from the skimmer line to the main pump is caused by one of the two couplers or the elbows, so I’m going to cut it off way down there. If that doesn’t work, what’s the next step - dig the whole line up??

 

[Jimrahbe]

Rod,

I think you will be golden..

But, the only thing to do now, is do it and see what happens.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Rodex]

Rod,

I think you will be golden..

But, the only thing to do now, is do it and see what happens.

Thanks,

Jim R.

If I wanted to eventually put an ORP sensor in, would it be on the supply side? As in, should I plan a T?

 

[Rodex]

Sorry for the barrage of questions, but a guy at Home Depot caught me getting a bunch of PVC stuff, and we got to talking and he highly recommended keeping the check valves in because my equipment is above the pool level. I know it’s just his opinion, but I wanted to double check - no check valves are needed, correct? I am guessing there will be about 3-4 feet of pipe for the main pump before it gets to the pool level.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Rod,

A well operating system does not need check valves.

Almost all equipment pads are above the level of the pool. Unless it is something like 10 or 20 feet above the level of the pool, I would not worry about it.

And if I did, I would certainly not use any check valves they carry at home depot.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Rodex]

Okay, all replumbed.

The main pump is not sucking in air nearly as bad as it was! It might still be sucking in some air, though; it’s hard to tell.

The waterfall pump is still not priming - but in the morning we will see if it holds the water level it currently has (previously, it would both not prime and lose what little pressure it had overnight).

 

[Jimrahbe]

Rod,

I may have screwed you...

The Main pump does not need a check valve and the water should stay in the pump overnight because the system is sealed, and no air should be getting in. This is because of the plumbing and the filter.

But.. Your waterfall pump has no filter and the output of the waterfall pump is basically connected to the air at the waterfall once the water drains out of the waterfall. The waterfall pump should prime without a check valve, but a check valve would keep the waterfall from draining back through the pump and might make priming easier.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Rodex]

Rod,

I may have screwed you...

The Main pump does not need a check valve and the water should stay in the pump overnight because the system is sealed, and no air should be getting in. This is because of the plumbing and the filter.

But.. Your waterfall pump has no filter and the output of the waterfall pump is basically connected to the air at the waterfall once the water drains out of the waterfall. The waterfall pump should prime without a check valve, but a check valve would keep the waterfall from draining back through the pump and might make priming easier.

Thanks,

Jim R.

I left the check valve on the pressure side - is that what you mean?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Rod,

I forgot that you had a check valve on the pressure side of your waterfall pump. That check valve is there to prevent the water in the waterfall from draining back into the pool. This means that your waterfall pump should stay full of water when the pump is off. I feel better now..

Did all the knocking and vibrating go away? Not sure if that happened with your pool pump or waterfall pump.

As far as priming goes, in-ground pool pumps create a suction that pulls the water out of the pool. When a pump will not prime it is normally due to an air leak. It is easier for the pump to suck air than it is to suck water. The first place to look is the pump lid O-Ring. But if a pump has run with no place for the water to go, like a dead-headed valve, or a bad check valve on the pressure side, the impeller will churn the water and cause it to get hot. It can get so hot that it will deform the pump basket and not allow the lid to seal.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Rodex]

Rod,

I forgot that you had a check valve on the pressure side of your waterfall pump. That check valve is there to prevent the water in the waterfall from draining back into the pool. This means that your waterfall pump should stay full of water when the pump is off. I feel better now..

Did all the knocking and vibrating go away? Not sure if that happened with your pool pump or waterfall pump.

As far as priming goes, in-ground pool pumps create a suction that pulls the water out of the pool. When a pump will not prime it is normally due to an air leak. It is easier for the pump to suck air than it is to suck water. The first place to look is the pump lid O-Ring. But if a pump has run with no place for the water to go, like a dead-headed valve, or a bad check valve on the pressure side, the impeller will churn the water and cause it to get hot. It can get so hot that it will deform the pump basket and not allow the lid to seal.

Thanks,

Jim R.

The main pump was the one shaking - it’s definitely not doing that nearly as bad as before, so that’s great. At low speeds, there is still an air gap in the SWG - how low is too low? Or maybe I should set the first step of the motor program to run at a higher speed?

The waterfall pump kept the water level overnight, so that’s also a huge improvement. I just replaced the lid seal - I might have a new lid around somewhere.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Rod,

If your main pump is a VS pump, then it should start at a high RPM and then after the pump primes, it will step down to a lower speed.

Often the prime speed and duration of the prime period can be set in the control head. You should check out your pump's manual.

What are you using for your normal run speed for your pump? I would not use anything lower than 1,000 RPM.

Having bubbles under the pump lid, at low RPMs, is pretty normal. Not an issue unless they keep getting bigger and bigger. One trick is to schedule the pump to run for an hour, once a day, at say 3000 RPM to purge any air from the basket.

Thanks,

Jim R.