Waterfall woes

[Rodex]

I have been battling air bubbles sucking in to my main pump for a long time and I believe the culprit is the waterfall pump. If anything is loose at all, the main pump sucks in air bubbles. I’ve changed the lid seal three times in three years of being here, and I just did now again and the bubbles seem to be resolved again. The lid seals are clearly flattened. I’ve also recently changed the backplate seal, diffuser o-rings, tailpiece o-rings, and drain plugs.

I’m not sure how to confirm, and I don’t know if it is normal, but I think the waterfall is plumbed from a tee in the skimmer line.

The waterfall inlet pipe collapsed, probably during the big freeze last year, and I am about to replace it, so I thought this might be a good opportunity to isolate the waterfall pump from the main pump when I inevitably have issues with the waterfall system. Can/should I put a valve in line to the waterfall inlet?

Here is a pic of the main and waterfall pumps prior to me adding the SWCG, replacing the waterfall choke valve, and the waterfall inlet pipe collapsing.

 

[Kiss4aFrog]

Are you using a silicone based plumbing or pool specific lube on the gaskets when you put things back together ?
It can really make a big difference in how good a seal you get.

 

[Rodex]

I’m using magiclube II

 

[Jimrahbe]

Rod,

I am not sure how your system is plumbed, but you should never have two pumps sucking water from the same pipe.

The main pump should get its water from the skimmers and main drain. Your waterfall pump should have its own water source.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Rodex]

I figured as much, but not much I can do about it. When I cut the old pipe out tomorrow, I’ll throw my endoscope in it to see where it goes. There is a small possibility it is plumbed to a return that doesn’t seem to be working…but I doubt it.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Rod,

Pools do not need main drains, so the best option is to plumb the waterfall pump to the main drain and the main pump to just your skimmers.

It just depends on how your plumbing routed if that is a simple fix or not.

What two input does your main pump have now?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Rodex]

Rod,

Pools do not need main drains, so the best option is to plumb the waterfall pump to the main drain and the main pump to just your skimmers.

It just depends on how your plumbing routed if that is a simple fix or not.

What two input does your main pump have now?

Thanks,

Jim R.

I believe that is the main drain and the skimmer line coming to the main pump. Maybe they already routed it like you mention - I’ll check when I get home. If so, I should just be able to turn the valve all the way to the skimmer side, right?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Rod,

I'd dig it out and see what is what first.

If your pump actually has an input from the main drain, and from the skimmers, than it would be an easy fix.

I suspect that your pump has a skimmer input and a Vac input. The Vac pipe may be the "Return" that does not work. Or not, I am just guessing what it could be.

If an old pool, the main drain is probably plumbed into the bottom of your skimmer. If you look under your skimmer basket what do you see? If you have two open pipes, then for sure the main drain is one of them and the other is the pipe going to the main pump.

I'd want to know where the input pipe to the waterfall pump is connected.

Happy digging,

Jim R.

 

[Rodex]

Rod,

I'd dig it out and see what is what first.

If your pump actually has an input from the main drain, and from the skimmers, than it would be an easy fix.

I suspect that your pump has a skimmer input and a Vac input. The Vac pipe may be the "Return" that does not work. Or not, I am just guessing what it could be.

If an old pool, the main drain is probably plumbed into the bottom of your skimmer. If you look under your skimmer basket what do you see? If you have two open pipes, then for sure the main drain is one of them and the other is the pipe going to the main pump.

I'd want to know where the input pipe to the waterfall pump is connected.

Happy digging,

Jim R.

Whenever I’ve tested this before to troubleshoot why that one return is dead, neither side would pull vacuum on that port.

The skimmer has a single pipe opening. I think it’s about 15 years old if I had to guess.

 

[Rodex]

When I put the 3-way valve all the way to one side, the main pump sucked in a bunch of air, and the waterfall pump water disappeared. Basically, it was the problem I’ve been having but on steroids. It was definitely not pulling any water through the skimmer.

However, when I move the valve all the way to the other side (where it is definitely pulling water through the skimmer), it chatters and vibrates really bad.

Seems like the waterfall pump is plumbed to the main drain side of that three way valve. Which I guess the solution would be to move the valve to the skimmer side, but something is definitely wrong there.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Rod,

I suspect there is a "T" under the ground somewhere near the valve.. My suggest still stands.. Dig down and see how they are plumbed.

Should be an easy Fix..

Jim R.

 

[Rodex]

Rod,

I suspect there is a "T" under the ground somewhere near the valve.. My suggest still stands.. Dig down and see how they are plumbed.

Should be an easy Fix..

Jim R.

Thanks for the help. I’ll add it to the never ending list

 

[Rodex]

So before I started digging I wanted to see what the endoscope could find. That certainly looks like a choke valve just a few feet into the pipe, which would make sense.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Rod,

Is that an additional check valve that is buried underground, or is it the bottom side of the above-ground check valve on the plumbing leading into the main pool pump?

Could be either, but my guess is the above ground check valve.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Rodex]

Looking at the length of scope it took to get there (2 feet), I don’t think it’s possible to be the above ground check valve.

About to find out for sure, though.

 

[Rodex]

Yep, check valve underground. Teed to the skimmer line.

 

[Rodex]

It’s a bit concerning that from what I assume is the main drain, the pump is pulling in a lot of air. But I guess that’s a problem for another day.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Rod,

If this were my pool, I would run the main pump off of just the skimmers and the waterfall pump off of just the main drain.

If you don't want to do that, then I'd add a manual valve (or valves) so that you could switch your main drain between the main pump and your waterfall pump.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Rodex]

Rod,

If this were my pool, I would run the main pump off of just the skimmers and the waterfall pump off of just the main drain.

If you don't want to do that, then I'd add a manual valve (or valves) so that you could switch your main drain between the main pump and your waterfall pump.

Thanks,

Jim R.

The manual valve option is enticing but it only buys me 6 months until the winter, but I suppose I can keep that waterfall side all drained at that point.

My main concern is that if I plumb the main pump to just the skimmer, it will chatter and vibrate like it is now when I move the three way valve to just the skimmer side. Unless that’s a problem with the underground choke valve leaking and thus some sort of feedback occurring?

 

[Rodex]

Oh and I should say - ultimately we will isolate the lines, it’s just a question of when.