Switch to SWG?

[stephenson]

Like so many others, I am considering doing this - mainly because of the shock of the cost of chlorine tabs - had not bought any in a couple of years, so ... WOW!

My irregular shaped gunite pool is about 13'x28', 3.5' shallow end and 5.8' deep end. These are conservative estimates/measurements. So, figure 13,000 gallons. Built in 2017. North Florida location.

Some say to size for 2x the volume ... so, 30,000 gallon size? But, manufactures rate by actual volume, so do they account for some engineering conservatism?

All my equipment is Hayward (see photos):
- ProLogic controller with hard wired remote
- Filter
- 2 speed pump
- UV Ozone Generator
- Chlorinator device
- 400K gas heater
- valve to allow return to both a "bubbler" in a shallow shelf area, and to several returns around the pool

Have read a bit, watched a few videos on installations, etc ... pretty straightforward. Given the layout, it would seem reasonable to plumb the SWG device/water flow sensor horizontally - starting with the heater discharge by repositioning the backflow valve further toward the house, then the SWG device, then the flow sensor, then plumb straight through the existing manual controller valve (removing the chlorination feeder)? If needed, I could extend the outflow from the heater toward the house a couple more inches, but it looks pretty darn close to what is recommended, most of the needed length determined by the flow sensor requirement.

The Hayward "AquaRite" device seems fine, but there are three cells available - 15K gallon, 40K gallon and 40,000 gallon with Extended Life TurboCell. Downside is that the Hayward solution is 2x the cost of some others - my reading indicates there are life span problems with all of them, so is there an advantage to Hayward vs Circupool, vs Jandy vs Pentair vs etc. There must be quality and reliability differences - in addition to the cost differences?

 

[mas985]

You don't need the AquaRite as the ProLogic IS a SWG controller (i.e. supports Hayward SWG cells). You just need to add the SWG cell only. The T-15 is a good choice and more economic than the smaller cells.

 

[stephenson]

Aha ... thought routing different, but the black plastic cover hides the plug opening?

 

[Berger82]

Aha ... thought routing different, but the black plastic cover hides the plug opening?

Have a look at my thread. I have the same chlorinator and panel. I went with the vertical install and replaced the chlorinator...fit perfect. Had ZERO cuts during the install. Panel is easy to wire as well. Let me know if you have any questions...SWG install

 

[stephenson]

Berger,

Thanks for the write up link and info.

My ProLogic panel will control a SWG cell without another controller - while they look the same, my PL-P4 (four relays) panel apparently can control a generator cell without another controller device. So, I probably just need to install the SWG cell, flow switch and plug into the ProLogic panel.

 

[stephenson]

Hi All,

So looks like my PL-P-4 (relay) controller will interface and control a Hayward cell. That's good news. If I use the Hayward controller function built into the PL-P-4 I cannot use an aftermarket/non-Hayward cell, right? That is bad news.

A few options - from the heater outlet?
1 - horizontal - leave back flow valve where it is, then as long as possible to flow switch (would be more like 8" instead of the 12" called for in specs), then cell, then to return diverter valve
2 - horizontal - replace back flow valve towards the wall to obtain more total length, which would net the 12" prior to the flow switch, flow switch, then flow switch then cell, then to return diverter valve
3 - vertical - leave back flow valve where it is, horizontal to vertical sweep, then vertical with flow valve near the top sweep prior to horizontal to provide height for the cell, then horizontal a bit to clear heater inlet pipe and to allow space for the 90° sweep, then 90° back down to the cell couplings, then to return diverter valve

HOWEVER, there is only about 1" clearance below the horizontal pipe ... is this enough for the "offset" on the Hayward cell which needs to be down? Is it good enough for the offset to be almost at the bottom? Depending on the answers, there is another option?
4 - replumb by taking the heater outlet OVER the inlet to the horizontal, then back flow valve, then flow switch, then horizontal mount the cell, then 90° sweep to the vertical with a 90° sweep back to the return diverter valve, or same but with vertical mounted cell just prior to the sweep to the return diverter valve

Options are good, but there is usually one best ... thoughts?

 

[mknauss]

If eliminating the trichlor feeder, the check valve can be removed. No need for one using a SWCG.

I suspect you can use a non-Hayward cell that is a clone. A lot of them on the market. Cheaper, however, is typically due to less rare earth minerals being used. And thus a shorter lifespan of the cell.

 

[stephenson]

mknauss,

Great news - thanks. So, the back flow is simply to keep highly chlorinated water from getting into the rest of the system? Makes sense!

So, the best solution if the cell offset issue is addressable, would be to simply plumb all lower horizontally:
- heater outlet, remove back flow, 12" of straight to flow switch, then cell, then straight into return diverter valve?

Non Hayward cells also appear to have different connectors - with likely different pin outs? If this was "fixable" would the controller be tricked into thinking they were Hayward spec?

 

[mknauss]

So, the back flow is simply to keep highly chlorinated water from getting into the rest of the system?

Actually, highly Acidic water. Trichlor is very acidic.

Plumbing sounds fine but not my strong suit. @ajw22 can chime in.

Be sure any cell you look at is a Hayward clone. But again, check with the seller that it will work with your controller.

 

[Newdude]

We had a SWG industry guy a while back who had a very informative post (which I can't find of course )

He had pics of many clones and said the good clones were styled as perfect matches and the ones that fit but looked different were the lesser quality ones with shorter lifespans. The ones that looked the same were made by the actual companies and rebranded as generics.

Definitely find the life expectancy tho if you do go generic and verify it's 8K to 10k hours and not 3k or 5k.

 

[stephenson]

Hi All,

Got pulled away into a couple of time consuming situations.

So, I need to make sure I am doing the right thing ... please let me know if this sounds wrong:

1. Use either the Hayward SWG device or a clone (with flow switch, and cell unions kit)
- pool is kidney shaped and about 15x30 with average depth of around 4' = 11=12K gallons?)
- given this volume do I really need the T-15 (up to 40K gal)? It seems like the T-9 (up to 25K gal) would be OK, but based on price I should still consider the T-15?
2. Plumb per the instructions, removing the tricolor feeder (maybe it uses the same union on one side - and the check valve (unless it makes more sense to just leave the check valve in place in case someone wants to return to chlorine?)
3. Connect the T cell to the Hayward ProLogic Controller (it gets power from this connection based on the ProLogic controller based on controller programming - and, only when the flow switch senses flow (flow switch is connected to the RJ connector just above the multi-pin controller cable)
4. Follow instructions on adding salt, programming and startup?

No other hardware since I have a ProLogic controller, right?

 

[Newdude]

Use either the Hayward SWG device or a clone (with flow switch, and cell unions kit)

given this volume do I really need the T-15 (up to 40K gal)?

No, but it wont hurt if the upgrade price is right.

It seems like the T-9 (up to 25K gal) would be OK,

Not just OK, but amazing

but based on price I should still consider the T-15?

As always. These days it could also be availability.

2. Plumb per the instructions

(unless it makes more sense to just leave the check valve in place in case someone wants to return to chlorine?)

The CV is only needed for the tab feeder. Once its gone, so is the need.

3. Connect the T cell to the Hayward ProLogic Controller (it gets power from this connection based on the ProLogic controller based on controller programming - and, only when the flow switch senses flow (flow switch is connected to the RJ connector just above the multi-pin controller cable)

Hang tight. I suck at automation.

4. Follow instructions on adding salt, programming and startup?

Get a K-1766 and test your baseline. Had a member this year get to 600 (1/5) from startup alone. Then add from there, but undershoot and creep up to the target. Like CYA and CH, its not easily undone.

 

[stephenson]

Thank you, Newdude and All!

I'm getting close ... please take a look at the photos ... I'm repeating myself to make sure I don't plumb this in a manner that will complicate some future owner's re-conversion back to triclor (an because I am a bit OCD).

1. Note the limited clearance under the horizontal pipe from the heater to the current triclor device - I may need to lay the T cell over about half way (the "belly" of the cell would NOT be straight down) ... is this OK? The manual excerpt shows Hayward instructions and placement ... the "belly down" is for lower flow rates (multi-speed or two-speed pumps) ... I can mount "belly up" and see how it works and then lay it over a bit? No issues for "belly sideways?"
2. Is there a chance the unions might fit the Hayward/Circupool T cells? If so, I don't need to buy?
3. Given the horizontal layout flexibility, should I try and place the flow switch prior to the T cell - some instructions seem to prefer prior to after?
4. I may install a solar system in the future - I should still be OK with the plumbing I've described? It would be installed prior to the gas heater, right? (don't want to unnecessarily complicate a future installation)

Thanks, again!

 

[Dirk]

Solar in and out would go after the filter and before the heater. Save that check valve, you'll need it for the solar plumbing.

 

[Newdude]

I can mount "belly up" and see how it works and then lay it over a bit? No issues for "belly sideways?"

I'm sure its been done, but I don't remember seeing one or its success rate.

. Is there a chance the unions might fit the Hayward/Circupool T cells

Yes, but this kind of chance


The unions are proprietary and many times are unique the product, even by the same manufacturer. For example I wanted to use extra Pentair SWG caps to seal my Pentair heatpump for the winter. The pipe was the right size but they had different threads. Trying to use one manufactures union on another's device is a 'dumb and dumber' chance as seen above.

Given the horizontal layout flexibility, should I try and place the flow switch prior to the T cell - some instructions seem to prefer prior to after?

It makes zero difference where it goes, as long as it has flow 100% of the time with the SWG. So that the water can't be redirected to a waterfall/spa/ etc which bypasses the SWG, but not the flow switch, for example.

 

[stephenson]

So, looks like a Hayward ProLogic Pl-4 compatible -9 Circupool cell is about $400, and the -15 is about $500.

Given my 11-12k gallon pool (it is caged, by the way), on one versus the other?

 

[stephenson]

OK - Circupool T9 on order, plus union, and flow switch/housing!

 

[stephenson]

Straightforward, right?

Aargghhh ...

Cut the chlorination device out ... as I was wrestling it out, the 2" pvc cracked near the valve going into the ground ... grrr ... options included replacing the valve and replumbing, or cutting the pvc out of the valve - so, I did that.

Two hours later chipping bits out - THINK it is good enough - got all the bits in - extra glue on the valve connection - with the flow switch before the cell, ran cabling, etc ... not hooked up, yet.

Will let sit overnight - status tomorrow.

 

[Newdude]

All that effort and the unit isn't even at 12 O'clock ?????? C'mon man thats 11:15 at best. 11:03 maybe.

Sweet job though. Nothing like the universe saying 'you think this is easy?' *crack*. I feel ya.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

For future reference, the outer coupler on the valve will accept a 2.5" fitting (coupler, elbow, tee). You can use a reducer bushing to get back down to 2". But, assuming you get no leaks, that's a much cleaner look. Good job!