Jandy FloPro VSFHP165 with TruClear SWG

[danm13]

I've just upgraded from a Jacuzzi pump that the previous owners had that was on it's last legs to a new Jandy VS pump with the iQPump01 controller. I opted to add an SWG as well. I was under the impression that this pump had a relay to turn on / off an additional accessory, but apparently that's on the Jandy ePump (2.0+ hp models) and not on the 1.65hp model.

Since the pump can be controlled via an app, there's no timer in our system and the pump and SWG are wired to live 240V power. The issue I'm having is that the SWG doesn't turn on / off with the pump (except by using the flow sensor, which is not recommended). There is a 4 wire signal cable running from from the pump to the iQPump controller as well as the SWG, but this alone does not seem to turn on and off the SWG.

My question is, does anyone have a similar issue and is there a workaround besides spending another $1000 on an automation system. I've spoken once to Jandy on the phone and they said the SWG has to be powered by the pump relay (which this model doesn't have). What is the point of the 4 wire RS485 connector going from the pump to the SWG if it doesn't control the SWG at all?

I measured the voltages on the RS485 as my initial workaround thought was to install a relay to turn on the SWG, however, the voltages don't seem to vary on the signal wires if the pump is on or off (kinda a rigged solution, however, like I said, I don't want to spend a lot of money on automation as the only thing I want to turn on and off is the SWG).

Appreciate the thoughts here. I've attached a section of the manual from the SWG that relates to non-automation installations for reference.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Do you know if the app has the ability to control off-the-shelf Wi-Fi relay/switches. It would be nice to find a relay that works with the app. If not, you'll probably need to wire a Wi-Fi switch or mechanical timer to the SWG. I use a $13 Sonoff Basic R3 to control my SWG runtimes.

For now, you get a free bump to the top of the queue. Hopefully you'll get some direction on how to get the pump and SWG to communicate with each other.

 

[PoolGate]

The 4-wire cable connects it to an Aqualink controller. You can't control devices by connecting 2 together in this manor.

 

[grandmasterlarry]

I have the Jandy True clear and I removed it from the relay as the relay only activates when the pump is at 1725rpm or higher, I was running my pump at 1200 rpm as that gives me a little over the min GPM required for the SWCG to activate. Because it is powered directly it is on all the time, but if there is no water flow the cell is not powered as indicated by the control box. My pump runs 24hrs.

What are the odds of this? "To avoid property damage, serious injury or death, do not operate the electrolytic cell without water circulation. A buildup of flammable gases can result in FIRE OR EXPLOSION.
The power pack must be interconnected with the pool pump motor power source to ensure that the chlorinator only operates when the pool pump is running"

The RS485 will not physically turn on and off the power box or put it in standby. You will need to add a timer just for the salt cell if you want it off.

 

[mknauss]

What are the odds of this?

Explosion near the SWG

We were watching TV and heard a major explosion after exploring in the backyard I went into my pool equipment should and found about a 16 in PVC pipe shredded 8in on one side 8in on the other side of where my SWG Is located. I have no Idea what to think. It appears the SWG somehow was not...

www.troublefreepool.com

It happens.

 

[grandmasterlarry]

Ouch, that puts me in a tight spot. If I put the SWCG on a timer with my automation that still will not ensure that it gets turned off if something happens to the pump. You would think the automation could at lest put the box in standby. I wonder if I can change the relay in the epump to one that will activate when there is power.

Right now I run 24/7 but if something happened to the pump and didn't trip the breaker the SWCG would still be powered.

Not a fan of the TrueClear at all...

 

[PoolGate]

All SWGs work in this manor. Also to be clear, SWGs use their internal flow switch as the only means to know when they should run. If that fails, then the pump being on the same circuit or a pump that will not allow a SWG to run when the pump is not running is the backup. In order for you to have a problem, you'd have to have the SWG's flow switch fail and the pump not be running at the same time.

 

[danm13]

Thanks for the replies. Just weird that the Jandy TruClear SWG manual states that without automation to connect the RS485 4 signal wire from the pump to the SWG if it does absolutely nothing. I know one alternative is to run the pump 24/7 (above minimum SWG flow), though, ideally, I just want the SWG running when the sun is on the pool so it fights the Cl loss (and that way my FC will always be relatively constant).

Wish I didn't tell my installer it's ok to scrap my timer now lol; coulda used it for the SWG.

 

[PoolGate]

Thanks for the replies. Just weird that the Jandy TruClear SWG manual states that without automation to connect the RS485 4 signal wire from the pump to the SWG if it does absolutely nothing. I know one alternative is to run the pump 24/7 (above minimum SWG flow), though, ideally, I just want the SWG running when the sun is on the pool so it fights the Cl loss (and that way my FC will always be relatively constant).

Wish I didn't tell my installer it's ok to scrap my timer now lol; coulda used it for the SWG.

Did you set up the Aqualink phone app for the variable speed pump? It is possible with new versions that you can connect the SWG and VSP together and control one from the other.

 

[danm13]

Did you set up the Aqualink phone app for the variable speed pump? It is possible with new versions that you can connect the SWG and VSP together and control one from the other.

Yes - I have the iAqualink app. How do you control the SWG? The manual page I attached mentioned something about revision F firmware, but I have no idea how to check that. Is that specific to the FloPro VSFHP165 pump model without auxiliary relays (relays look like they're on the ePump 2.0+ hp models).

 

[PoolGate]

Yes - I have the iAqualink app. How do you control the SWG? The manual page I attached mentioned something about revision F firmware, but I have no idea how to check that. Is that specific to the FloPro VSFHP165 pump model without auxiliary relays (relays look like they're on the ePump 2.0+ hp models).

You would need to look at the app itself for options for other controllable devices. I can't really help I have never seen or used the pump app. You can always call Jandy tech support they are actually pretty good.

 

[Newdude]

There are too many +s to list for 24/7 runtime, but here is a few.

the cell doesn’t care if it’s on 24 hours at 50% or 12 hours at 100%. 12 hours is 12 hours.

full time skimming means that most of what falls in the pool will never get the chance to get waterlogged and sink to the bottom while the pump is off half the day every day.

full time filtering adds some extra pizazz as well.

rain no longer matters because if you get a 2 incher overnight, you were mixing and not sitting with untreated rain water sitting there for up to 12 hours. Double this for all the crud that gets knocked out of the trees when it pours, cuz you’ll be skimming too.

You’ll never even see the added $10 a month in electricity, especially with your ACs running all summer.

 

[danm13]

Yea, I still may end up running 24/7. Just lower the flow overnight (I'll have to adjust the SWG accordingly; as now I'm running at 30% for 10 hours). 24/7 may put it down to ~10%, but I'll need to play with it to see.

The other option I'm debating (and may do it anyway regardless of runtime) is a current sensing relay (found a few):

CR4395

Current Sensing Relay provides an effective and highly stable method for monitoring electrical current.

www.crmagnetics.com

https://www.newark.com/schneider-electric-legacy-relay/841cs5-uni/relay-current-sensing-spdt-5a/dp/30M2660

Basically, run a leg of the pump power wire through the sensing port and when the current reaches a certain point (can set to where minimum flow is established), it closes the contact that can run to the SWG. When the pump turns off, the relay opens and SWG turns off.

I was just hoping this was available out of the box for a $1300 pump and similarly priced SWG.

 

[grandmasterlarry]

One thing I have found with running the Truclear 24/7 with low rpm (1200) is that if the cell is not filled with water over the metal tab at the top it will not make chlorine. Running on low does not keep it full over that tab. To overcome this I speed the pump up to 1750rpm for 5min every 3hrs and it keeps my Chlorine levels good as it keeps the water filled in the cell. So anyone having issues with the Truclear not making chlorine this could be why if your running below the 1725rpm the relay on the pump sets.

Id say its close in cost depending on if you have SWCG and how long you need to run to generate your chlorine demand. For me to run 24/7 it uses 100 watts at 1200 RPM and 245 at 1725 RPM. so 2400WH for 24hrs or 2940WH for 12hrs.

 

[grandmasterlarry]

Update, I was wrong about the Truclear not going into standby from automation. When the pump is not running the unit IS placed in standby. This would be the same as if the unit had power and you pushed the power button placing it in standby. If your unit is going into standby when the pump not running this should be enough.

You only need a timer if you want power cut to the unit if you are running RS485 control. Should work the same way with your pump control. the unit should go into standby when the pump is not running.

 

[Frank in FL]

One thing I have found with running the Truclear 24/7 with low rpm (1200) is that if the cell is not filled with water over the metal tab at the top it will not make chlorine. Running on low does not keep it full over that tab. To overcome this I speed the pump up to 1750rpm for 5min every 3hrs and it keeps my Chlorine levels good as it keeps the water filled in the cell. So anyone having issues with the Truclear not making chlorine this could be why if your running below the 1725rpm the relay on the pump sets.

Id say its close in cost depending on if you have SWCG and how long you need to run to generate your chlorine demand. For me to run 24/7 it uses 100 watts at 1200 RPM and 245 at 1725 RPM. so 2400WH for 24hrs or 2940WH for 12hrs.

I too have the TruClear and im not understanding how you can run your pump
At 1200 RPMs and still produce chlorine? My cell kicks on at 1725

 

[danm13]

Yea, I still may end up running 24/7. Just lower the flow overnight (I'll have to adjust the SWG accordingly; as now I'm running at 30% for 10 hours). 24/7 may put it down to ~10%, but I'll need to play with it to see.

The other option I'm debating (and may do it anyway regardless of runtime) is a current sensing relay (found a few):

CR4395

Current Sensing Relay provides an effective and highly stable method for monitoring electrical current.

www.crmagnetics.com

https://www.newark.com/schneider-electric-legacy-relay/841cs5-uni/relay-current-sensing-spdt-5a/dp/30M2660

Basically, run a leg of the pump power wire through the sensing port and when the current reaches a certain point (can set to where minimum flow is established), it closes the contact that can run to the SWG. When the pump turns off, the relay opens and SWG turns off.

I was just hoping this was available out of the box for a $1300 pump and similarly priced SWG.

FWIW to close out this topic I started and to share my solution, I had a few calls with Jandy and ended up going with a current sensing relay solution as I mentioned above.

Per Jandy's customer service that I talked to, it sounded like Revision F of the SWG firmware wasn't out yet, or maybe not very prevalent yet, so the RS485 wire going to from the pump to the SWG doesn't do anything.

I added the current sensing relay I mentioned above. I put it in the panel where the timer was, as that's where my wire connections were, and there's plenty of space. Mounted it to a small DIN rail in the timer panel. I have it set such that when the pump is running around 1700-1800 rpm or so, the relay will turn off a leg of power to the SWG. When the pump runs faster the current goes up and SWG turns on. The current sensing relay is adjustable, so the RPM setpoints I have for turning the SWG on and off can be changed (1700-1800 is just where I have it set). The other benefit to this solution I've found is that if I want to run my pump overnight to filter but not chlorinate, I just run it below that 1700 mark (usually 1200/1500). If I do want to chlorinate (boost for example), I can run it above 1800RPM. If I want to change the RPM setpoint for turning on and off, it's just a small screwdriver turn of a dial.

What I have been doing is running the pump / chlorinating during the day (to combat the Cl loss from the sun), and either off or low speed (SWG off) overnight when there's no Cl loss. Been working pretty well and gives me peace of mind that the SWG flow sensor isn't the primary switch. Hope this helps someone out there!