In Ground Pool in New England: Plaster today!!!

[B.lu]

Hello! I am creating one thread about my build, that I will update going forward (with questions I'm sure!). I've made a few separate threads in the past. My in ground pool is up to the gunite phase. Crew is waiting until the spring for PebbleTec, tile, pavers, etc... I initially wanted to keep the pool reallllly simple (no water features, LED lights, etc...), but, now that I have so much time to think while we are in limbo, I am having second thoughts on things.

In a recent post, someone recommended I add a light switch over the equipment and to switch to a better pump, which I am going to do. Plan on getting a robot as well.

My question today is, is it too late to do LED light/lights if I am at the gunite phase and hadn't planned on it initially? At the center of the deep end, there is the standard pool nitch. No wires in there yet. It sounds like it is better to have at least 2 lights for my size pool (15x30) or 4 for micro-type. At the very least, could I consider something like an amerlite bulb, which looks like it fits into a standard fixture. I am sure I am revealing my ignorance (don't think I even have a "fixture" yet)

Any help would be appreciated. I'll include electrician docs, in case they're useful.

Thanks so much!!! B

.

 

[Dirk]

Short answer, no, it's probably not too late to make changes.

When my pool was refinished, they chipped out all the old finish down to the gunite. They sealed up my main drain and dug out enough gunite to add eye-ball return fixtures. Then patched it all up. There's is almost nothing that can't be changed at the gunite stage, especially if they have access to the back side, as in: the deck has not been installed. They can drill through or chip out gunite and add your desired fixtures, as long as they can access the other side to run the wiring. But if the trenching has been filled in, they may need to redo some of that, and with PVC pipes now buried in the trench, there could be a lot of manual digging ($$$). If wires have already been pulled through the conduit, then they'll have to either run more conduit, or redo the existing wiring. So that's more work, too ($$$).

While there is almost no limit to what can be done, there is almost no limit to what your PB can charge you for all that! So you really need to have this conversation with him to determine if the upcharge is going to be worth it to you. Depending on his character, he'll either charge you a reasonable fee, or he'll take advantage of the fact that you don't really have any alternatives to go elsewhere at this point, so he can charge whatever he wants to. To be fair, if I was the contractor and you didn't like my revision prices and started shopping around for some other contractor to make changes, while expecting me to resume my work after thiers, I'd be hard-pressed to let any warranty stand as originally agreed upon. Who knows what some other crew might damage? You can't add more cooks to the kitchen and expect the same quality food! So you may have to use your original PB for any upgrades, and he'll know that, so he can charge what he likes. Hopefully he's a reasonable, honest guy and charges something fair. But even "fair" is not likely going to mean cheap. Either way, be prepared for some sticker shock.

 

[B.lu]

Dirk, thanks so much for your thoughtful response! I am trying to get organized for when I talk to the PB this week. I have a long list of changes I want to make to the plan based on recommendations from this site and hours of TFP thread browsing.

I have another question to throw out there to anyone: My quote includes a 'free' Polaris 280. I plan to get a robot. Should I decline the free Polaris and not have it set up on the equipment pad, or should I take it and have it as a backup, in case my robot breaks? Thanks!

 

[Dirk]

You don't want a pressure-side vac, even as a backup. They require a booster pump, which will just clog up your equipment pad and add unnecessary plumbing. See if he can get you a good price on a robot and deduct his cost for the Polaris and all that would have been required to get that running (vac, pump, installation, pipes, etc). It will save him a lot of trouble, so he should be willing to give you some credit.

 

[B.lu]

You don't want a pressure-side vac, even as a backup. They require a booster pump, which will just clog up your equipment pad and add unnecessary plumbing. See if he can get you a good price on a robot and deduct his cost for the Polaris and all that would have been required to get that running (vac, pump, installation, pipes, etc). It will save him a lot of trouble, so he should be willing to give you some credit.

Dirk, that sounds great. Thanks so much! I am new to the pool world. My mom has one now, but we didn't when we were growing up. The most frequent comment my mom makes is how amazing her robot is.

 

[Dirk]

People around here LOVE their robots. I like my suction-side cleaner. We'll see. When Skynet takes over, we'll see who has the last laugh!

 

[B.lu]

Quick question, is the Jandy Aquapure 1400 good for a 15x30 size pool? I keep seeing not he forum that the SWG should be bigger than what is often recommended by builders. Thanks so much!

 

[B.lu]

Quick question, is the Jandy Aquapure 1400 good for a 15x30 size pool? I keep seeing not he forum that the SWG should be bigger than what is often recommended by builders. Thanks so much!

I should add pool is 3'-6', capacity listed on paperwork of '20k'

 

[mknauss]

SWCG should be rated for a minimum of twice the volume of the pool.

The Aquapure 1400 is rated for about 35K gallon. It puts out 1.25 lb per day of chlorine gas at maximum. A normal 40K cell would be rated for 1.4 lb per day of chlorine gas.

 

[B.lu]

SWCG should be rated for a minimum of twice the volume of the pool.

The Aquapure 1400 is rated for about 35K gallon. It puts out 1.25 lb per day of chlorine gas at maximum. A normal 40K cell would be rated for 1.4 lb per day of chlorine gas.

Thanks! I'll look to upgrade to a 40K cell

 

[B.lu]

Hello, I am still a couple of months away before the rest of my pool build is completed and have been thinking of all of the things while twiddling my thumbs. Any advice on where to have the gate? There will be a black aluminum fence that is against the edge of the dirt/rock area. I'm mostly thinking dead center (2) vs 3. Any recs on a good lock for the gate with punch numbers (I know to get something that locks/unlocks from both sides, right?)



I'm also hoping to figure out a way to subtly incorporate the pool area with the deck area, and would love any recommendations for that. So far, I am considering using techo bloc Maya.



And lastly! Any thoughts on landscaping to hide the equipment pad? I'm thinking about ornamental grasses or holly shrubs to obscure view all year. Thank you so much for your thoughts and time!

 

[Dirk]

Hard to judge from the pics which spot is best. On the house/deck side, but centered to the side lounge area makes sense to me, as that will be the major traffic path, I think. Consider one on the other end, too. Kids will chuck stuff over the fences, and the back door would be handy for that.

The gates should swing outward, and self-close. There's a code about it, I think it's national. @yippyskippy usually reminds me of the "rules." They include stuff about how the latches and locks should work, too, if I recall. So you might have a look at that before you finalize the plan.

I like shrubs for the pad screen. Does anything stay green and lush all year where you live? A local nursery could help with plant selection. Nothing that drops the kind of gunk that could end up in your pool: leaves or petals, etc.

 

[B.lu]

A second gate is probably a good idea. Thanks! I'm in RI and just the evergreens like holly, pine, etc... keep the green foliage through the winter.

Long story short, the sales guy for my builder left the company in December. I've been directed to communicate to project manger (PM). He is a nice guy but I asked him for information re: upgrade/changes in January and he never got back to me until I emailed a second time and then called the main office. Anyway... his response today has given me pause. Probably all small potato things but just wanted to throw it out there and see if anyone has any thoughts.

1. I asked to upgrade to a 2 speed pump from single (no water features/etc... and someone on this forum said a 2 speed would likely be good enough given my needs. The builder told me "upgrade to VS for 1K". Not what I asked but does that price seem right? He didn't tell me the exact model. The single speed is whisperflo 1.5 so I'm guessing same brand.

2. I asked for change from French grey pebble sheen to blue granite and builder said $450 upgrade. I have an email saved from the spring where the prior sales guy told me French grey and blue granite were on the same tier/same price.

3. I want to change from shale grey blu 60 pavers to greyed nickel. When I look at price list online it is a $0.40 per sq ft upgrade. PM told me $1.50 sq ft upgrade

Obviously the pool is a huge expense and the amount of money I'm focusing on is small comparatively but I want it to be fair. Is this just the way it goes? Thanks so much!

 

[Dirk]

All PBs mark up materials. That's not unfair per se, so you can't go by what's online. How much might be unfair. But remember, he's warrantying everything, so markup above what you can "find online" in not unreasonable. On the flip side, once in contract, PB's figure you're not going to go with anyone else, so they might try and take advantage of that. That is the nature of the beast (when PBs are beastly, anyway).

You might mention the prices you're finding, and see what he says. That might tick him off, or it might make him aware that you're not an easy mark, or both. Certainly show the new guy what the previous guy said about the finish tiers and try to hold him to that. He may come back with some excuse. Same deal, whaddayagonna do? Fire him? Hire someone else to do the pavers? Or the pool finish? It's a sticky situation, and you're mostly at the mercy of the PB. But everything is negotiable. Polite but firm is probably the tack. Remember, even if he's trying to gouge you, he still wants the extra profit, so you do have some leverage.

Can't comment on the pump price without the model, but the same principal applies. If you're planning on pool automation, or think you might ever want to add it later, don't buy any VS pump other than an IntelliFlo (sounds like you're going with Pentair). Note that your automation controller, your SWG (if you're getting one) and your pool pump should all be of the same brand. If you'll never have automation, then brand and model are based on need, not other components.

I love my automation and VS pump, for lots of reasons, and wouldn't consider anything else. A two-speed would probably work for my pool (I used to have one), but being able to dial in exactly what RPM those two speeds are makes a big difference in my energy use. I actually have about four or five speeds I use. I have a solar heater and a pool vac and they both work better because I can optimize the flow they both need by adjusting the pump RPMs. So some of the reasoning to upgrade to VS is based on the rest of your equipment, and what that needs. Don't even consider a single speed. I think they're all getting outlawed soon enough. With ever-increasing energy costs, even if the savings of a two-speed makes sense now, that might not pay off in years to come. Just ask the guy in Texas who got the $17K electric bill last month!

 

[B.lu]

Thank you so much for your time and lengthy response! Your points have all been noted! I was able to find several emails about what I was quoted from the original guy, so I'm hoping that will help. I hope to end up somewhere between what I had anticipated and what the PB just told me. It so helps to have this forum for a place to throw the information out there and hear back from those who have been through the process. Such an invaluable resource!

All PBs mark up materials. That's not unfair per se, so you can't go by what's online. How much might be unfair. But remember, he's warrantying everything, so markup above what you can "find online" in not unreasonable. On the flip side, once in contract, PB's figure you're not going to go with anyone else, so they might try and take advantage of that. That is the nature of the beast (when PBs are beastly, anyway).

You might mention the prices you're finding, and see what he says. That might tick him off, or it might make him aware that you're not an easy mark, or both. Certainly show the new guy what the previous guy said about the finish tiers and try to hold him to that. He may come back with some excuse. Same deal, whaddayagonna do? Fire him? Hire someone else to do the pavers? Or the pool finish? It's a sticky situation, and you're mostly at the mercy of the PB. But everything is negotiable. Polite but firm is probably the tack. Remember, even if he's trying to gouge you, he still wants the extra profit, so you do have some leverage.

Can't comment on the pump price without the model, but the same principal applies. If you're planning on pool automation, or think you might ever want to add it later, don't buy any VS pump other than an IntelliFlo (sounds like you're going with Pentair). Note that your automation controller, your SWG (if you're getting one) and your pool pump should all be of the same brand. If you'll never have automation, then brand and model are based on need, not other components.

I love my automation and VS pump, for lots of reasons, and wouldn't consider anything else. A two-speed would probably work for my pool (I used to have one), but being able to dial in exactly what RPM those two speeds are makes a big difference in my energy use. I actually have about four or five speeds I use. I have a solar heater and a pool vac and they both work better because I can optimize the flow they both need by adjusting the pump RPMs. So some of the reasoning to upgrade to VS is based on the rest of your equipment, and what that needs. Don't even consider a single speed. I think they're all getting outlawed soon enough. With ever-increasing energy costs, even if the savings of a two-speed makes sense now, that might not pay off in years to come. Just ask the guy in Texas who got the $17K electric bill last month!

 

[B.lu]

The electrician is coming over today to do the bonding! I've been looking at a hole in the ground since the fall but I'm not super stressed about timeline. I hadn't realized I couldn't use the heater for 30 days so it's not like we'd be swimming now... Although I'm sure my kids would at least try to pop in

 

[B.lu]

I have a question about where to have the electrician place a light at the equipment area, which was kindly recommended by someone on this forum. I feel foolish even having to ask but I'd rather clarify now than have more regrets later! Do I put it on the side where all of the buttons and switches are or on the opposite side where the equipment is? I thought it would be where the switches were but the electrician said I'd want it to face the equipment in case I needed to do something in the middle of the night like 'back wash'.

 

[B.lu]

I have a question about where to have the electrician place a light at the equipment area, which was kindly recommended by someone on this forum. I feel foolish even having to ask but I'd rather clarify now than have more regrets later! Do I put it on the side where all of the buttons and switches are or on the opposite side where the equipment is? I thought it would be where the switches were but the electrician said I'd want it to face the equipment in case I needed to do something in the middle of the night like 'back wash'.

View attachment 324003

Also, should the light be something like this:

 

[Newdude]

It can be anything you think is aesthetically pleasing. Or something that isn’t so pleasing but is very functional like flood lights. If you put it on a 6ft post shining down somewhere in the middle you should be able to light the area plenty good enough. I would aim to have more of the light where you will need 2 hands to work, say to mess with the filer/pump. If it’s just pressing electronics buttons, your cellphone flashlight will do fine with your free hand. Or, put one on each side.

 

[ajw22]

What type of filter are you getting? It is not in your signature..

Why does it matter? Because you are are talking about the light you may need to fool with your filter at night. What you may be doing varies with the type of filter.

You want the light on the equipment more then the panel.