Challenges testing using Taylor K-2006C and K-1766

[csconner]

Hello all,

Relatively new user here, pool in the ground for one year, last year I just added salt, with SWG indicated, ran the SWG at 60%, added water to maintain level, nothing else... pool was clear, no alge, just enjoyed swimming!

This year, purchased Taylor K-2006C and K-1766 kits and want to commit to doing it right.

Ok, my challenges

1. Pool Math App not recording data, just created a thread on this in "Just Getting Started" forum, so hopefully that was the right place to seek assistance for that issue. This hurts, as I was recording all my results for past couple weeks in the app, when I couldn't see past #'s this morning, I subscribed figuring that was the ticket to see past entries... no change still can't see any history.

2. Can't get a good reading for testing: Salt, FC, CYA, PH, TA, results seem off be off the chart, FYI - see #4 below for PH and CYA update

2. It's been 9+ days since I opened. I've been challenged to get a good FC, CC or TC reading
Note 1: I slammed the pool at opening with two gallons (I did one gallon, that seemed to get used up quickly as three days later FC was 0, so I added one more gallon) of liquid chlorine from HD. Water was relatively clear at opening (little bit brown/green tinge), some leaves and minimal sediment in bottom of pool, lots less debris than I expected due to cover, no algae noted at opening.
Note 2: Pool was covered from Oct-March with safety cover, added water as needed thru out the winter, ran the pump with filter thru out the winter at ultra low RPM (650), removed the SWG from plumping
Note 3: Later this year I'll install bypass for HP and SWG)

3. SWG states salt = 4300, Guess I added too much salt at open, it's already decreased from 4350 over the last few days due to adding water (due to evaporation before the rains it was super dry) and then the rains these past few days here in Middle Tennessee. Still forecasting more rain this week so I was going to see if that together with evaporation would lower salt into acceptable range. Again salt test results are off the chart.

4. Today for the first time was able to get good reading for PH (7.4) and CYA (100,
Note 4: I added 3-4lbs of stabilizer right before the rains guess that was a bit too much), recoded into the app but now nothing recorded.

Hopefully this makes sense?

Right now feels like I've gotten myself into a predicament that I can't figure a way out of!!!

Appreciate the assistance, thanks

Craig

 

[Texas Splash]

Craig, you have several things going on, so I'll try to address as best as I can:
1 - I don't believe any past tests were saved until the time at which you subscribed.
2 - Each of those (salt, FC, and TA) should be fairly straight-forward. For the FC test, use a 10ml water sample size with one generous scoop of powder and mix (should go pink). Stir and add drops until clear then divide in half. Example: 16 drops = and FC of 8. For the K-1766 kit, it should change to the salmon/red brick color. The TA should go from dark green to bright Barbie pink. If your TA is elevated, that's okay. It will come down over time with acid. We'll come back to chemistry in a minute.
3 - So now you have two methods to check salt levels - the SWG itself and the K-1766. Generally the 1766 is more accurate, but the most important thing is that your SWG is happy (no high/low salt warnings). There can easily be a variance of 200 - 400 ppm of salt between those two products. As long as you're in the ballpark you should be okay.
4 - A pH of 7.4 is usually fine, but the CYA of 100 is no good (to high).

So here's what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong. You are transitioning to swim season. The pool water may have gone slightly green (algae) and your CYA is at or over 100. Your CYA must be tackled first because if it is over 90-100, it needs to be lowered before you can perform the SLAM Process to properly remove algae. So you might verify the CYA one more time. If it is over 100, exchange enough water to lower it to at least about 70 ppm. If you go below 70 ppm, that's fine and will help you save chlorine during the SLAM Process.

Once the CYA is lowered, do the SLAM Process. Be sure to lower the pH to 7.2 first, then increase (and maintain) the FC at the appropriate SLAM level noted on the FC/CYA Levels. Example, if your CYA is 70, then you raise the FC to 28 and maintain it there until you pass all 3 SLAM criteria.

After you complete the SLAM Process, we can help you re-balance everything from there. The only thing we haven't covered was the potential for iron in the water. But since you are on city water, hopefully that's not even an issue. If you have any questions, let us know. Good luck!

 

[magiteck]

Hi Craig,

TS hit the high points, just a few things to add.

Note 1: I slammed the pool at opening with two gallons (I did one gallon, that seemed to get used up quickly as three days later FC was 0, so I added one more gallon) of liquid chlorine from HD. Water was relatively clear at opening (little bit brown/green tinge), some leaves and minimal sediment in bottom of pool, lots less debris than I expected due to cover, no algae noted at opening.

It doesn't sound like you completed a SLAM Process on the water. Completion of a SLAM requires you to bring the FC up to SLAM level, and then maintain it there, until you pass meet the "pass" criteria. It sounds like you performed what the so-called pros refer to as a "shock treatment", which likely hasn't cleared up all of the algae in the water.

3. SWG states salt = 4300, Guess I added too much salt at open, it's already decreased from 4350 over the last few days due to adding water (due to evaporation before the rains it was super dry) and then the rains these past few days here in Middle Tennessee. Still forecasting more rain this week so I was going to see if that together with evaporation would lower salt into acceptable range. Again salt test results are off the chart.

Note that evaporation will not remove salt from the water. The water evaporates, but leaves the solids (e.g. salt, cya, etc.) behind. So adding water made your salt-level temporarily decrease only because adding water with a lower salt concentration caused the ratio of salt to water to decrease. Evaporation will then make that ratio increase again, and adding water will then just bring it back. You're never actually removing salt in this process. The only way to do so would be with a partial drain.

4. Today for the first time was able to get good reading for PH (7.4) and CYA (100,
Note 4: I added 3-4lbs of stabilizer right before the rains guess that was a bit too much), recoded into the app but now nothing recorded.

Is this the first time you added CYA? If so, the math doesn't add up. In a 9500 gallon pool, 4lbs of CYA should only bring you to a 50. Had you added some last year as well? If so, you could be over 100 -- 100 is the limit of the CYA test. You can perform a diluted test (half pool water, half tap water) and then double the result to confirm. If you're really at 100, the diluted test should have you ~50. Pinpointing your current CYA level will be important so you know how much water to drain.

 

[mguzzy]

3. SWG states salt = 4300, Guess I added too much salt at open, it's already decreased from 4350 over the last few days due to adding water (due to evaporation before the rains it was super dry) and then the rains these past few days here in Middle Tennessee. Still forecasting more rain this week so I was going to see if that together with evaporation would lower salt into acceptable range. Again salt test results are off the chart.

Hi Conner
Welcome to the forum if you haven't been so welcomed! So one option you have for reducing your CYA and Salt is to use the rain to your advantage. I'm not sure how much rain you get in your neck of the woods this time of the season, but if its a lot you can use it to dilute your pool. To maximize the dilution you need to drain off some water when you know a big storm is coming and then let the rain refill it. I couple of those cycles will help dilute things down so hopefully you won't have to do a drain.

I'll reiterate what magiteck said..
1) throwing in a gallon of chlorine, waiting a few days and then doing it again is not a SLAM Process. you need to bring the chlorine up to a specific level for your CYA and hold it there until all the green guys are dead. And that is determined by the OCLT tests and clarity conditions. good luck to you on that one.

2) do a diluted CYA test and that should give a better reading of your concentration. the simplest way is to dilute your sample 50:50 with water and then multiply your result by 2. If you search the forum there is a chart for more diluted ratios too..

 

[csconner]

Ok, first, thanks for the input lots to take in put it (mostly) makes sense.

I redid my tests today (my Taylor 9265 Stirrer arrived yesterday so this really helps), below are the results.

Note: This sample was from yesterday (3/16/21) morning before the sun was shinning on the pool, I have one more sample from this morning before the rain started (forecasting 1-2" over the next two days. I drained several inches out last night so we'll see where that's gets me).

Note: Also, I have to add water 0.5-1" every 2-4 days to keep it in the middle of the skimmer, based upon my reading here on TFP this will likely be another thread. I'm going to do the bucket test after the rains pass later this week...

Ok results from yesterday's sample:

FC - 3.0 (SWG is off, I turned it off two days ago) based upon this low number seems like I should turn it back on but to what setting?
PH - 7.4 (in the range but not optimum at 7.6?)
TA - 75 (I wasn't sure when it changed color on drop 7 or 8 so I split the difference here )
CH - 90 (I see this is low, low, low)
CYA - 100+ would value input on how to dilute for next test to see if we can get a better read?
Salt - 4600 (IC20 shows 4200 today)
Temp - 59

Opps forgot
CC - 0.6 (so this indicates I need to SLAM it?)

Ok, so I'll run my second sample and post those results today.

Thanks again

​

 

[Texas Splash]

"CS", that CYA is the most troubling right now. It's much too high and you'll never be able to balance the FC properly to such a high CYA. Unfortunately, the only way to reduce CYA is water exchange. Now us FG pool owners can't just empty a lot of water at once for fear of pop-out. So we either do small water changes at a time, or consider simultaneous water exchange by draining from the deep end but adding to the shallow to ensure the overall water level doesn't drop too low. But before you try to adjust anything else, that CYA needs to come down. You will still need to maintain an elevated FC level if possible to avoid an algae bloom, so do the best you can. When you start the water exchange, you might increase the SWG to 50% - 60% or so depending on your settings. I would do enough water exchanges to get the CYA down to at least 70. If you go a little lower, that's fine as well.

You can find the CYA diluted test here starting at Step #8.

CYA - Cyanuric Acid Test

Cyanuric Acid (CYA) is the chemical name for what is commonly referred to as Stabilizer … Read more…

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Dirk]

Hey CS, lots of good advice you're getting. I know it's a lot to take in. No worries. We've all been there. Just keep asking questions. You've got this!

If I can squeeze in a little more...

The guys will sort you out, and do read the SLAM directions again, so that you can get through it correctly (here). You might also get a handle on chlorine manufacture date codes. Your SWG provides the freshest chlorine available. That might not be true of HD, especially if they're trying to clear last year's stock. Chlorine has a relatively short shelf life, and you don't want to be buying and lugging old stock that might have little effect on your water. You need to check the date code at HD and find another source if theirs is more than 3 months old. I buy my chlorine from Leslie's just for this reason. I don't need much, as I have an SWG, too, but when I need some, I want "the good stuff."

Chlorine Date Code Decoder/Easy Way to Measure Strength.

Hi, I just joined TFP this season and pool is looking great. TFP is an awesome resource. Thanks I thought the information below might be helpful for some of the forum participants. I recently bought 1 jug of 10% Liquid Chlorine that was actually 4.5%. It had a 2013 date code. I now am very...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Flying Tivo]

FC - 3.0 (SWG is off, I turned it off two days ago) based upon this low number seems like I should turn it back on but to what setting?

In the PoolMath app, there is a section under effects of adding to calculate SWG production. On a quick calculation with your IC20 you need to run about 8hrs@100% to create 3ppm of CL. Which is about what every pool needs.

 

[wireform]

Your biggest issue now is the unknown cya level. Being in the 100 territory will make it almost impossible to slam the pool and allow the liquid chlorine to do its job. You need an accurate cya reading so you can lower it via a water exchange. You have only one good shot at the exchange from the getgo without throwing out fresh water on a second attempt. Here ya go, do a cya diluted test ,determine how much of the water needs to be exchanged per the new cya level you want to achieve, calculate the amount of time it'll take for X amount of water to be exchanged and add say atleast another 500 gallons to be sure you've exchanged enough. Your equipment pad will be completely off while this is going on. NO FILTER PUMP UNTIL YOU ARE DONE. Then turn on the filter and run an hour or so and now check for the newly achieved cya level.

 

[csconner]

Update:

I've drained and replaced (with combo 3/4" rain and rest city water) about 3.5" of water today. I realize this is not a precise # of gallons. Next time I release water I'll record my pump #'s and length of time I discharge water so we can get more specific data.

Forecast is for more rain tonight, perhaps I can drain/replace some more water this evening.

One item of note, Salt level displayed by the IC20 is now 4050, down from 4200 yesterday. This seems to indicate it's heading the right direction and hopefully CYA is coming down as well.

I'll collect new sample tomorrow early AM, won't be able to test till lunch time, I'll post those results and we can see what everything looks like then.

I did note some green on the inside throat of the skimmer throat above the water line below the lid, I scrubbed that all clean this afternoon.

And I've set the IC20 to 60%.

Also of note, water has been clear since my half Rear attempt to SLAM last weekend. Just FYI..

Thank you for all your patience and the multiple folks sharing input and perspective. Guess I was lucky last year; salt, water, sunshine and swimming...

 

[mknauss]

For CYA, TA, and CH testing you can do the test after collecting the sample.

For pH and FC, you should be testing just minutes after taking the sample.

 

[csconner]

Marty,

thanks for the info, I’ll adjust a Accordingly!

 

[csconner]

Update:

Exchanged about 4.5" of water total over the past 48 hours.

Test results from noon time tests today (it's heavy overcast today here in middle Tennessee so no sun on the pool)

FC - 5.0
CC - 0.0
pH - 7.6
TA - 90
CH - 100
CYA -70
Salt - 4000
Temp - 60
IC20 - 60%
Pump runing @950 RPM 24x7

Seems we are closer to the optimum #'s.

CYA was much easier to read today, no need dilute sample before testing. Result was between 60 and 70 so I rounded up to 70? is that correct? or is up lower? it's so cunfusing

Still not confident in my Chlorine test results, these tests seems to be the trickiest for me to repeat results consistently.

Also, I don't understand the two different Chlorine tests, DPD and FAS- DPD.

Oh, oh wait, as I'm reviewing the instructions (as I'm typing this) I was only executing first half of Chlorine DPD I was not testing for Bromine as I don't have bromine system. So I should just use the FAS-DPD test correct?

Never Mind Results from DPD show FC-8, FAS-DPD showed FC-5.0

And, I've drained out another 2" of water today as we are forecasted for more rain late today/tonight... I'll supplement with city water to get back to normal levels by end of day today. I'll stop draining/replacing after todays effort unless y'all think more exchange is required.

I'll test again tomorrow, post those results, I assume then we can move forward with next steps...

Side note:
Based upon all of the sharing and learning here on TFP, I believe I have identified a leak on the suction side of the pump that was resulting in lots of air infiltrating the sump...in less than 24 hours from a high RPM run to push all of the air out of the sump (and the filter) water level would be down to top of basket (it would then remain at that level). Last weekend I had lubed up the sump basket cover gasket, the sump drain gasket and the suction union gasket (using recommended silicone) with no impact. So, using some of the silicone ( I had tried water over the sump but not further upstream on the suction side plumping) I spread by finger a liberal amount of silicon on each union/elbow and splice on the suction side of the pump out to edge of pad and found at least one splice on the 2" suction line that once the silicone flowed into the joint stopped the air bubbles in the sump. So guess I'll be replumping the suction side soon.

Next - I'll address what I feel is a excessive loss of water, it feels like several inches per week all year, ( I covered it for winter, had the pump running at 650RPM) including over the winter. I've got my bucket ready once the rains cease. I'll start a separate post in the plumping forum on this next challenge.

Again, thank you all, for your inputs and guidance been very helpful.

 

[mguzzy]

Those numbers look pretty darn good for a SWG pool. I would keep the CYA between 60-70.. at least that's where see the best FC retention in my pool. Your's may be different. And yes you round up the CYA reading. I would bring your FC up a bit.. I just find for my pool 9ppm feels about right. Use the target FC level from the FC/CYA Levels as your minimum.. and you are safe anywhere between the chart target and SLAM for swimming. I just like having some extra FC to handle sudden loads like an impromptu pool party.

Keep up the good work! How does the pool look?

 

[wireform]

I would recommend to keep a jug of chlorine close by in case for some reason the FC drops below your threshold you'll be able to bring it up in short order. Cranking up the SWCG is not instantaneous.

 

[csconner]

Those numbers look pretty darn good for a SWG pool. I would keep the CYA between 60-70.. at least that's where see the best FC retention in my pool. Your's may be different. And yes you round up the CYA reading. I would bring your FC up a bit.. I just find for my pool 9ppm feels about right. Use the target FC level from the FC/CYA Levels as your minimum.. and you are safe anywhere between the chart target and SLAM for swimming. I just like having some extra FC to handle sudden loads like an impromptu pool party.

Keep up the good work! How does the pool look?

Water is Clear, there is some sediment in the bottom of the pool, been storms here past few days, I'll vacuum in the next day or two.

I assume the FC is lower due to water exchange, I set the SWG to 60%, it had been off, I could increase the percent to 70-80% for a day or two or run Super Chlorination cycle?

I'll review the FC-CYA chart to better familiarize myself.

I have 2 gallons of liquid chlorine on hand from HD purchase a few weeks back (need to do my chlorine date research to understand that info).

Note: I ran the SWG at 60% all summer last year, water was clear all season, added salt and water when they were needed, swept, vacuumed and enjoyed the swimming, never tested/adjusted any of these other levels... so this is a interesting journey.

Thanks

 

[wireform]

If you're at the point to super chlorinate then that's what the LC is for. Super chlorinate just wears out the cell. Don't do it. Use the cell for routine % only.

 

[mguzzy]

I assume the FC is lower due to water exchange, I set the SWG to 60%, it had been off, I could increase the percent to 70-80% for a day or two or run Super Chlorination cycle?

I would through in some liquid Cl and see if the SWG can hold the FC level for you at your target, that is the usual suggestion until you get a handle on how fast your pool responds to changes in FC from adjusting the knob. I don't use the super chlorinate option any more. If I need to raise the FC quickly I will dump in from the jug.

 

[mguzzy]

If you're at the point to super chlorinate then that's what the LC is for. Super chlorinate just wears out the cell. Don't do it. Use the cell for routine % only.

I'm gonna defer to @Newdude on this one. He figured out the actual effect on the longevity of the cell is not all that great.. but what you do get using liquid Cl is an immediate raise in FC.. if you use your SWG it will take some time. So I find it easier to dump in some LC and see if the SWG can old that level.

 

[Dirk]

"Super Chlorinate" mode on a Pentair IC20 SWG is the same as setting the output to 100%. All that mode really does for you is turn itself off and restore to the original setting after x number of hours (I think 24). Also, if your SWG run is interrupted, like your pump shuts down for the night, the SWG remembers where it left off. You get 24 hrs @ 100% regardless of the total span of time it takes to get there. "Super Chlorinate" mode doesn't use up the SWG any more or less than running at 100% for 24 hours, or 50% for 48 hours. But Mark is right, for a quick boost, liquid chlorine is so much faster.

The Taylor Taylor 2006c only comes with the FAS-DPD test, so I'm not sure what other test you're referring to. You only need FAS-DPD, you should only be performing FAS-DPD. Some here will use those cheap-o kits just to see if there is some chlorine in the water, but frankly I don't see the purpose. You either want to know the actual number or you don't (IMO). The 2006 FC test is the very easiest test to do, so if you're having trouble with that test, we can help you with that. If the only problem was with the other tester, that's solved: shelve it.

For the CYA test, here's a couple tips that might help. (1) Mix up the 7+7 batch and gently shake it. Wait 30-60 seconds or so (not critical), maybe gently shaking a bit during that time. The sample should be at room temp, so if you took the sample from a very cold pool, let it sit for a bit before you mix the 7+7. So after the wait times, fill to the 30 line in the test vial. Check the dot. If you see the dot, repeat by filling to 40, then check again. Then 50, 60, etc. The first level where you cannot see the dot is your CYA. EZPZ. So dot barely there at 60 but gone by 70 means you use 70 for your CYA level. That method does the "rounding up" for you. You don't have to drop check drop check drop check only to find the vanishing dot somewhere between 60 and 70, cause you round up to 70 anyway! And (2) you can pour the mixture from the graduated vial back into the mixing squirter and repeat the test over and over again. You don't need to mix a new batch, just use the same batch again. As much as you want, to feel comfortable with the result. I do that at least three times, until I feel I'm getting the same result each time.

But I must say, just from reading your thread here, it's clear you have a fantastic grasp of what we teach here. You're doing great, as is your water.