New construction in Houston, Tx ** Trying to complete punch list**

[Jimrahbe]

spd,

I don't know much about Hayward automaton.. What I do know is that no automation system can control an RJ-60.. Things that need to be the same brand are... The VS pump, the SWCG system, and the automation itself.. You can do what you want but mix and matching equipment does not normally work well.. As an example.. here is the control page for my SWCG.. You can see where I can control the output in the pool mode and spa mode.. I can turn on super-chlorinate (which I never use) and I can see what salt level the SWCG is reporting. You can't do that unless the units can talk together..

View media item 1963

Having the same brand of pump as my automation also let's my automation control my pump speeds based upon what the pool is doing..

View media item 1962

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[gingrbredman]

But some things just make sense to do yourself instead of paying the price of having the PB do them

I can relate to this thinking for sure. There are some things with my upcoming project I'd just rather do myself, and some things the PB "could" do, but the cost from them outweighs any advantages. For the automation, that is one thing I would probably leave up to the PB, if I could get a cost that makes sense, if the upcharge was reasonable. I'm sure there are people that could do it themselves for a lot of reasons, I'll take the savings I make on the other things and spend it on the automation and get the longer warranty.

Like you, my PB "could" have included some things, like a fence as part of the my project. After looking around, I could do the same fence for $500 less, and I still don't have to do the labor, just find the right sub for that part. It sounds like you are willing to do a lot outside of the pool itself, so you probably have already saved quite a bit so far not going with the PB. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

[spd500]

@gingrbredman I agree, problem with the automation so far is that I have no idea what is even a good price. Woth the SWCG I looked up what it would cost me to do it and compared with what the PB quoted, then had him tell me what size system he was quoting and did the math. With the automation it seems to have so many options that I can't get good numbers on it even if I were to do it myself.

@Jimrahbe , that is the type of system we would want for automation. Simple to operate, touch screen, preferably with phone. I dont really want to mix and match anything either, but need the smaller size of the 400K Pentair heater because I dont have enough space on that side. Maybe I should be asking to just switch everything to Pentair. We also want the automation to control the lights for sure, not sure about light shows, but at least control them.

 

[Jimrahbe]

spd,

Hayward has similar systems... The point is to use the same brand for the VS pump, the SWCG and the Automation... the heater and filter do not matter and can be whatever brand works for you.

The Screens that I am showing are from a PC.. You can do the same thing with a phone, but you don't get the same look.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[guinness]

I agree, problem with the automation so far is that I have no idea what is even a good price. Woth the SWCG I looked up what it would cost me to do it and compared with what the PB quoted, then had him tell me what size system he was quoting and did the math. With the automation it seems to have so many options that I can't get good numbers on it even if I were to do it myself.

What equipment did the PB quote for the SWG, was it an AquaRite and what cell size? What system did you price up? You might be comparing apples to oranges.

 

[gingrbredman]

Just something to think about if you want to add a "remote" to your automation like you mentioned in one of your earlier posts. Looks like a remote for the Hayward Omnilogic system is around $500. You could pick up a mini tablet (Ipad Mini or Android) and a waterproof case with the app loaded up for less than that cost. As a bonus, you could load up music apps, streaming apps, any home automation apps, or even camera feeds if you have them so you have kind of an all in one "pool remote".

Hopefully someone else with more knowledge on the right price for the Hayward automation can chime in, but like Jim mentioned, it doesn't look like you would need to switch over to all Pentair stuff to make it all work together. Plenty of people have had all Hayward/Pentair/Jandy stuff that they can all be tied together with automation, and then a separate brand heater like a Raypack. I believe all the automations can tell a separate brand heater to just turn on and set a temp.

 

[spd500]

What equipment did the PB quote for the SWG, was it an AquaRite and what cell size? What system did you price up? You might be comparing apples to oranges.

PB was quoting the Hayward W3AQR9 system for up to 25,000 gallon pool, and I was pricing the Circupool RJ-60 system because it is much larger and the cell is supposed to last longer. I now see that with automation I can't use the RJ-60, but the Hayward unit is nowhere near a $2700 system.

 

[spd500]

Just something to think about if you want to add a "remote" to your automation like you mentioned in one of your earlier posts. Looks like a remote for the Hayward Omnilogic system is around $500. You could pick up a mini tablet (Ipad Mini or Android) and a waterproof case with the app loaded up for less than that cost. As a bonus, you could load up music apps, streaming apps, any home automation apps, or even camera feeds if you have them so you have kind of an all in one "pool remote".

One of the pool builders that we talked to was showing us a system that had a touch screen control panel that they would mount on the wall inside the outdoor kitchen and you could download an app if you wanted to. That would probably be the best setup for us. We talked about the remote that you can take into the hot tub or pool and control everything from there and it seems like something to get lost or broken. There are very few times that I can think of that I would even use an app, but it could have benefits. Might be nice to get the hot tub warming up from the airport on the way home from long business trips or silly things like that, but I could easily do without it.

 

[guinness]

PB was quoting the Hayward W3AQR9 system for up to 25,000 gallon pool, and I was pricing the Circupool RJ-60 system because it is much larger and the cell is supposed to last longer.

The general rule of thumb is to order a cell that is rated at twice your pool size. So the 25,000 gal can work if you run your pump longer, but the 40,000 gal (T-CELL-15) would be a better choice especially since you're in TX.

One of the pool builders that we talked to was showing us a system that had a touch screen control panel that they would mount on the wall inside the outdoor kitchen and you could download an app if you wanted to. That would probably be the best setup for us.

Both the OmniHub and the OmniPL that I previously mentioned have detachable main screens that can be placed in your outdoor kitchen. At this point you need to decide if you want to install automation during or after build. One factor is do you want a separate electrical subpanel or use the load center inside an automation panel.

 

[spd500]

One factor is do you want a separate electrical subpanel or use the load center inside an automation panel.

The original plan was for me to run the electrical myself because I wanted to have everything in the main panel inside the garage instead of out at the panel. With the Omni systems having their own subpanel it would still come from my main panel, but I'm guessing I would only have to run a single circuit to the subpanel.

 

[guinness]

With the Omni systems having their own subpanel it would still come from my main panel, but I'm guessing I would only have to run a single circuit to the subpanel.

The OmniPL has a load center, the OmniHub does not which was partly why I asked. Automation aside, what did you and your PB discuss for electrical?

 

[spd500]

Is there any advantage either way? It doesn't really cost me all that much to run the electrical back to the main panel for everything, it is on the same wall and only about a 25ft run.

 

[Stoopalini]

Is there any advantage either way? It doesn't really cost me all that much to run the electrical back to the main panel for everything, it is on the same wall and only about a 25ft run.

I would always prefer a load center at the equipment pad, if for no other reason than simplicity of the wiring and organization of the breakers. One main 240v breaker in the main house panel, feeding the sub panel at the equipment pad's automation solution. Then any breakers needed for the pool, go into the subpanel. It also provides a very easy way to kill all power to the pool equipment with one breaker in the main panel, instead of having to flip each individual circuit at the home's sub/main panel.

If you don't have a sub panel at the equipment pad, I believe you'll need to run all your circuit lines back to your main panel, not an existing sub panel. From the way you are describing your setup, it sounds like you have a sub panel in your garage which you plan to tie into. If so, I don't think that's code compliant, as I believe the 240v breaker(s) (pump, heater, SWG, etc ...) may need to be in the main panel and not a sub panel.

I know my home's sub panel, also in my garage, won't even accept a 240v breaker due to the panel design. I believe this is on purpose, to prevent someone from doing something like you are describing.

If the panel in your garage is, in fact, your home's main panel (where the pole, or buried, main lines connect), then you can run back to that ... but it would be much cleaner and easier to run one circuit and have the load center at the pad.

I also believe when PB's use the light versions of these automation controllers (ie: one's without a load center), they are required to install a subpanel at the pad, adn tie it back to the main panel.

Disclaimer: I'm no electrician, and anything I've typed above is just my opinion based on my experience and understanding of code ... take it with a grain of salt, and certainly verify before acting

 

[Stoopalini]

Oh, and here's another thing to consider, taken from Electrical Code Rules That Make Your Pool and Spa Safe :

Maintenance Disconnect
A maintenance disconnect is required for shutting off power to pool or spa pumps, filters, and other utilization equipment. The disconnect must be installed within sight of the pool or spa but can be no closer than 5 feet from the pool or spa so that you cannot turn the power on or off while leaning out of the water. Public spas must have an emergency disconnect that is visible and at least 5 feet from the spa, but this rule does not apply to single-family dwellings.

Can you see the pool and/or equipment pad from the panel in your garage?

 

[spd500]

We do not have a sub panel, I was planning to occupy 5 spaces within my main panel that is located inside the garage and run each circuit direct from the main panel. It is not line of sight, we would have to add service disconnects at the equipment pad.

I guess I don't really have any issue with the subpanel at the equipment pad. The only part that I was not really thrilled with was that the breakers would be accessible if someone wanted to try messing with the equipment while we were away or out of town, but in reality they could do the same with a service disconnect.

 

[Stoopalini]

We do not have a sub panel, I was planning to occupy 5 spaces within my main panel that is located inside the garage and run each circuit direct from the main panel. It is not line of sight, we would have to add service disconnects at the equipment pad.

Interesting. Can you post a pic of the panel in your garage? All my TX homes have always had a main panel outside, by the service entrance (with breakers for the AC/Heat, Water Heaters, Sub Panels, etc ... and a sub panel somewhere else (garage, master closet, etc ...) with all the breakers for the home's 120v circuits.

I guess I don't really have any issue with the subpanel at the equipment pad. The only part that I was not really thrilled with was that the breakers would be accessible if someone wanted to try messing with the equipment while we were away or out of town, but in reality they could do the same with a service disconnect.

If you go with automation, just get one with a load center, and then you won't need a separate subpanel as it'll be integrated into one neat package. In terms of security, the load center (or a separate sub panel) can be locked with a padlock.

 

[spd500]

Operation Hurricane Prep, dig date for tomorrow pushed back until some unknown date.... They need to hurry up and dig a hole before my wife finds another house to buy!! Excuse the mess, our whole back yard has been under construction in preparation for a backyard oasis

 

[spd500]

I planned on just turning all the chairs over because the storm looks like it is going to Louisiana to me, my wife is afraid they will go flying. so the rest of the chairs and tables need to go to the already very full garage.

 

[Stoopalini]

Man, you’re going to have one awesome backyard oasis when it’s all done!

I pray you stay safe and undamaged during the upcoming storm!

 

[spd500]

Man, you’re going to have one awesome backyard oasis when it’s all done!

I pray you stay safe and undamaged during the upcoming storm!

Thank you, I am confident we will be ok. This really looks like it is going to Louisiana and we will get some outer bands.

I absolutely love our outdoor kitchen, I spend more time there than any room in the house other than my office!! We are planning some upgrades to it with the addition of the pool, it turned 5 years old in July, time for new fans and a few other things. I am also adding a 65" tv on the back side of the grill for being able to watch football from the pool and hot tub